Kroft to Obama: Are you punch drunk?

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR

The only problem with Plato's idea of a perfect leader is that in reality, nobody meeting his qualifications would desire the job at all.

They would have to be FORCED to do the work. Which he touches on as well, I believe.

Forced, by not by others. They would not want to do the job, you are right about that. Anyone who wants to lead should be immediately disqualified. They are the ones who see that they can serve themselves by doing so. Those who see leadership as a burden and responsibility are those you DO want to do the job. They see the true nature of leadership, service.

But he does say that someone who is of the right mind will do so, even not wanting to, because they know they have to. If they want to live in a just society, they must step up and do their duty to their state, and make the sacrifice.

I dont think that would be so impossible. After all, look how many soldiers sign up and put their lives on the line for really crappy pay. They dont see how their fighting in Iraq will give them a cut of the oil fields there. Like the mercenaries do. They are there because they want to keep their nation safe. (some of them, some were just poor and had no other job options) There is a reason the philosopher kings came out of the military class. The kinds of people willing to sacrifice their own lives, (those who join to do their duty, not out of lack of other options) are also those who will lead when their is no personal benefit to doing so except to keep their nation harmonious.

And I dont think you need a really educated population to do that. We used to choose our leaders from those kinds of men. (George Washington?) We have just slowly over time allowed ourselves to forget that leading is not a privilege, but a duty, a responsibility. We all just accept it when they are golfing, and talking about wanting to watch basketball games when their nation is in crisis, and jetting around here and there, having a good old time. We accept that our politicians go on junkets to exotic locations, and eat expensive dinners paid for by corporate interests. We think that leaders SHOULD be thus privileged. When nothing could be further from the truth.

When I am taking final exams, I do not go party. I do not watch television. I do not hang out with my friends. I study. I eat, sleep, and study some more. So that when the test comes, I am prepared. If you are a leader, and your nation is facing possible collapse, I expect that you can set aside a season (or four) of basketball and study your butt off trying to find us a solution. And I am not just picking on Obama here, Bush had himself a merry time while our soldiers were fighting his war, too.

When I see him laughing and talking about the basketball schedule on TV with a little board outlining all the teams, I dont think, "how cute, my President is just a regular guy!" I think, "shouldnt you be brushing up on the economic theory you admitted you dont know very well?" I know I would be if the biggest test of my life was facing me. I know a soldier would be checking his gear the night before the battle, not worrying about who was going to make the.....whatever the basketball finals are called. Superbasket? I dont know. I dont think it is a matter of the intelligence or education of the American people. I think it is a matter of values. Our priorities are all screwed up. Advertising has sold us the idea that everything should be "fun" and "happy all the time" when there are times when fun and happy are not the appropriate response to the situation.

Sometimes digging in and working like you have never worked before, setting all "fun" aside is the thing you need to be doing. And doing it because it is the right thing to do, not because you expect a big fat payoff at the end. Thats not a matter of education. It is one of character. Some of the people I know who have the best characters and very poorly educated. And they know a crook when they see one. You dont need a college degree to figure that out. We just have gotten so used to seeing crookedness in our leaders we have forgotten it doesnt belong there.

I wouldn't know if Obama was "punch drunk"... but I used to know a girl who was on crack who used to laugh the exact same way when she was high. Hmmmmmm

reply to post by ZindoDoone


What did the Fed do on Fri that could have us jacked up? I must have missed it.

Either the guy is tired and displaying nervous laughter or he just smoked a joint. I hope it's the latter.

reply to post by FlyersFan


First of all, Obama is not a nitwit. He's a brilliant, decent human being.

Second of all, his laughter is not indicative of anything other than the extreme pressure and pathos of the challenges set before him by eight ruinous years of Bush.

Third of all, he was voted in because he is clearly talented and able, AND his competition was McCain and Palin. McCain is the guy who was against torture until he was for it. And Palin? Need I say more?

Obama may in fact prove to be disappointing, but it's waaaaaaaay too soon to say. I wish people would stop writing his political obituary when his presidency is so young.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Obama's got HIS house for the next three years and some. Doesn't even have to pay rent. Must be nice to be able to laugh when all those idiots who voted for his "hope and change" STILL aren't going to make the nut in time to keep THEIR houses.

Mr. "I studied how not to scare the middle class under Saul Alinsky" probably thinks this whole situation is a laugh riot. His kids are in private school and they won't have to worry about where they'll be living next month.

Where are the knee-jerk "progressives" who would have monopolized the air waves to protest similar callousness on Bush's part? Kissing their fearless leader's behind, as far as I can see.

reply to post by lyyhtsource


Congress, with the compacency of Obama, gave the go ahead for the Fed to print another 2.7 trillion pieces of worthless paper known as money and they did it at 10:37 PM on friday night!

Zindo

I'm starting to get enjoyment hearing people whining and complaining as they slowly wake up after all these years. So where has Kroft been for all this time - oh, wait, don't tell me! he just woke up too!

We had the Bushies and the Republicans double the national deficit from 5 to $10 Trillion between 2000 and 2006, and now we have Obama and the Democrats continuing the same tradition, just tailored slightly to their own liking. We had Bush pledging to bring back integrity to the White House in 2000, and in 2008 we had Obama pledging change. Nice soundbites, heh?

The two-party dictatorship is simply doing what it does best - selling out the country for their own selfish purposes.

If the American media wants to get their integrity back they should focus more on investigative journalism on the macro scale and seek out and report to the people what's really going on in government and business - beyond the political sex scandal of the month or crooked business dealing of the week. For example, when the Glass-Steagall Act was over-written in 1999 (?) why wasn't this headline national news since this was largely responsible for preventing another banking collapse and economic Depression? The media has to provide detailed flash reports to the people on how much money each and every Federal politician gets from whom (lengthy list but it has to be publicly announced) - and that goes for every municipal and state politican too (on the local and state level).

How can we get the masses to merely listen to what people like Bill Cooper, Paul Craig Roberts, Peter Schiff, Gerald Celente, etc. have said, negative as the messages are, in order to make people actually think and make them realize that it's the PEOPLE that have to force change because that's the only way that change WILL occur. No rocket science degree required - the Founding Fathers knew that REALLY WELL!!!

reply to post by Illusions Are Grander


IllusionsAreGrander,

I have never read Plato's "The Republic."

I am well aware that the founders of this Nation and its Constitution were well aware of Plato and his writing in "The Republic" as well as the history of many other ancient nations from Rome to Constantinople..to the Middle East and other nations in the Continent of Europe.
It is also obvious to me that the founders here were aware of the writings of other of the great Philosophers.

What they wrote to replace the failed Articles of Confederation was and still is an exceptional document because of what was in it and also because of its brevity.

What the founders nor Plato or other philosophers seem to be able to teach us is how to become a fruit inspector...to detect what is not desired to be taught to us by our leaders. To be able to spot and see that which is not desired to be seen..as is in the historic workings of many in different governments throughout recorded history.
That which is hidden from us..occult...esoteric...which is what governs how a government will actually operate..not how they speechify to the public.

They could not protect us from this. In short ..they could not protect us from Phariseeism....ie....Counterfeiters. Those who would secretly overlay and insert counterfeit doctrines and practices over the top of the law of the land and have this passed off as if it was the law of the land and for the public when it was no such thing.

Give you this example IllusionsAreGrander,.. using the Glass-Steagall Act mentioned by TypeSH2001 on page 12 of this thread. I had to think and rethink the history as it has been awhile since I read it. Not many would know that the attempts to put in a federal reserve act...much earlier than 1913 were lead by a fellow in high finance named Nelson Aldrich. His attempts failed and the mantle taken up later and finally passed through the congress rather sneakily ..just like much legislation taking place today. This second attempt was lead by Carter Glass of Lynchburg, Virginia. Many politicians recognized the legislation being promoted by Glass as the Aldrich bill..hence the Reserve act was passed privily when so few of our politicians were available just before a recess. Just enough to have a quorum and get it passed while most of those objecting to it were absent. Sound familiar? Very occult in the manner in which it is and was done. Just like today.

Plato nor our founders could protect us from such shady dealings. Nor from so much knowledge or understanding of the history so often missing from our educations.

The Glass-Steagall Act is nothing more than a confidence boosting trick under the guise of legislation designed to instill confidence in the system. The FDIC never was able to completely insure or guarantee all of a persons losses. This act has been replaced with another act of dubious nature. And act which has also been inserted under the radar of most Americans.
Carter Glass was nothing more than a shill for the Aldrich Bill previously attempted and failed to pass prior to 1913. His Glass-Steagall Act was a confidence trick to boost this system. Unless one digs deeply ..they will not find this history in most books...it is hidden ..concealed..occult.
Philosophys cannot protect us from these kinds of dealings...unless they specifically educate us in the identifying of these patterns. Pattern recognition.

While there is no doubt that there were people of great thought and moral character in Ancient Greece...it did not help the nation in the end. Not any of the philosophers nor their philosophies.
None of this will help this nation in the end as it steams steadfast unto its demise and our government replaced with a new form not any better than the one it replaced.

Oh..I don't recall if I got back to you on GFW Hegel's book "The Genealogy of Morals." It was to my surprise not a thick book. However..I found it totally unsuitable to my mindset. I found it dead and inert. Lacking a spirit conducive to my frame of mind. I constantly found myself revolting to something he was getting at in a subconscious level..one deeper than what was written on the pages. While there were occasional decent and intelligent concepts on the pages, most of it I found to be endless rambling on and on. I finally gave up on it when I realized the author was dead and inert in his soul. It took me awhile to locate this dead fingerprint and with the help of someone else on ATS I realized immediately when they spoke of this concept ..that they were correct.

I have noticed that some people think Hegel is the cats meow in philosophy/thought and others think not. Not a lot of middle ground among readers on Hegel. I found this also to be interesting and telling. Apparently and obviously I am not that enamoured of him. Nor is my German Mother when I mentioned that I was reading his book.

I recall reading a book on the great philosophers and a fellow named Baruch or Benedict de Spinoza To my surprise this is a fellow who was a Jew and gave up his rich Jewish history for Human philosophy. Interesting trade off. History seems to be repleate with peoples who have done these kinds of tradeoffs.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic

Originally posted by dolphinfan

This is the criticism I look for because I learned something from it. You get a star from me.

My complaint is the abundance of criticism directed at Obama's character or the man himself rather than his politics or policies. My complaint is that there has been an unconscionable level of ridiculous whining over the stupidest things having to do with Obama rather than dealing with the crisis and matters at hand.

and yet, your first reaction.. is to yell "Racism".

I think that says a lot about you.

Can I ask you if you have ever stood up for Bush? For the "unconscionable level of ridiculous whining over the stupidest things having to do with " BUSH?

Obama looked like an uncaring, ignorant fool on 60 minutes and I was as embarrased watching that as I was whenever I watched Bush on TV.

I cringed.

But I didn't do so because he is half black.
Your brush needs to be wiped off.

OF course Obama is laughing. Everything is on schedule for a global fascist state just as David Rockefeller wanted. Not bad for 60 days in office.

Food bills to remove right to grow food - pending
NAIS/Premises ID locates farms and livestock - on schedule
the massive land garb bill that passes control of land to UN- passed
gun laws - pending
massive crippling taxes - passed

I am sure the "blame the internet" as "number one Hazard" is the first step towards censorship. No wonder Obama is so cheerful and laughing on the 60 minutes TV interview. The take over of the USA is going along right on schedule.