It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Kroft to Obama: Are you punch drunk?

page: 11
28
<< 8  9  10    12 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
Jesus christ give the man 90 days before you start the pointless baseless attacks that really come across as some kind of unconscious racism more than kind of legit criticism.
[edit on 22-3-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]


OH CRAP!!!! He used the nuclear RACIST weapon!!! Everybody...quickly...shut up and pretend to be sheep.


www.youtube.com...




posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
Jesus christ give the man 90 days before you start the pointless baseless attacks that really come across as some kind of unconscious racism more than kind of legit criticism.
[edit on 22-3-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]


OH CRAP!!!! He used the nuclear RACIST weapon!!! Everybody...quickly...shut up and pretend to be sheep.


Sadly, some have yet to learn that even though you may have invested your heart and soul into some person or cause, there is no guarantee that your support will not turn out have been misguided. Many obama supporters - especially the younger ones - are facing this very reality right now as the wheels start to come off of obama's bus. They really wanted to believe obama would somehow turn out to be different and better.

In time they will hopefully learn - as many of us did about Bush - to stop "shooting messengers" and focus their anger and disappointment where it truly belongs.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:59 AM
link   
My final post on this thread ( insert Applause here.)

Please allow me to acquiesce.

Of all people, I should know the definition of insanity.
( Repeating same actions in hopes of different outcome...etc.)
Yet I fall prey to the trap (threads like this) time and time again.

Despite what you all might think, I really don't enjoy coming on here
to argue. Quite the contrary.I am here to grow, to learn.

I thereby respectfully accede further discussion on this topic.
I apologize if I have offended anyone. FF, GEL specifically.

We are all here in our search for the ultimate truth. You all are my ATS brethern and I don't intend to have you harbor ill will towards me as we capitulate in future engaging discussions on other topics due to my political views.

I take your critiques and criticisms to heart and looking back realize I got what I deserved. I think I can learn more FROM you than argue WITH you.

In closing......

Have I wavered on my support of our current president?........NO.

Have you all planted justified seeds of doubt?........YES.

Without Wax.........Kinda Kurious

[edit on 24-3-2009 by kinda kurious]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by earlywatcher
 


Thats what Im saying exactly. It hasnt . But thats the ideal model. What Im trying to get across by laying it all out like this, is that people accusing Obama of socialist behaviour wouldnt know socialism if it jumped up and roundhoused them in the face.


So what DOES he think he's doing? It's nothing resembling capitalism. Congress appears to have broken completely from representing "the people" so it's not really a republic any more. Maybe some kind of aristocracy that marketed its way into office. That doesn't explain Obama's "philosophy" of rule. (yes rule, not governing)



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:55 PM
link   
reply to post by earlywatcher
 




So what DOES he think he's doing? It's nothing resembling capitalism. Congress appears to have broken completely from representing "the people" so it's not really a republic any more. Maybe some kind of aristocracy that marketed its way into office. That doesn't explain Obama's "philosophy" of rule. (yes rule, not governing)


The US Government has been moving away from Represenative or a Republican form of government for some time now.

To my limited grasp of history the shift to Democracy from a Republican
form of government began to take place after WW1 when returning soldiers first read in the newspapers that they were fighting for Democracy...not a Republican form of Government.

This knowledge has been totally clouded over in public schools in favor of Democracy today. No mention of a Republican Form of Government or different facets of the US Constitution are allowed to be known by the students.

When you refer to an aristocracy ...you do realize you are speaking of a Feudal arrangement ..yes???
Feudalism is the most common and prevalent form of government historically known in records of men. Royalty..royal privelege given and granted by a Sovereign. Socialism is a variation of Feudalism....priveleges granted by a Sovereign. Communism is the ultimate Socialiist expression of Feudalism...where the State is everything..and the Sovereign.

Seperation of Church and State is not known in Socialist Governments nor Communist Governments because the ultimate power resides in the State..unchecked...therefore you are back to Royalty..a Sovereign.

As the Philosopher Hegel would state..."the State is God."

Once the state is God functioning in every capacity from cradle to grave...you have no seperation...power in the hands of the state is ultimate.

Historically ..the best form of government intelligent, reasonable, knowledgable men can devise on their own merits and demerits is....

Tyranny.

Always and without exception.

The fact that this trend line is hidden and concealed from most of us means that this fingerprint and trend line is also...Occult...meaning hidden and concealed from those who are affected by it.

The true nature of our body politic is Occult..hidden ...concealed...from those it intends to rule.

This is why you can safely say the government does not represent the people anymore but does in fact represent someone or something not seen ..not known by those who it intends to rule. Right???


Congress appears to have broken completely from representing "the people" so it's not really a republic any more.


Occult practices and workings have to do very much with feudalism and also with religion. In otherwords the nature of politics is feverently and devoutly religious ..but in a mannner not seen and not known by those not trained in spotting it nor familiar with its workings. Politics is in fact "Occult" hidden, concealed, esoteric.
All Occult practices and history can be traced back to the old and ancient feudal nations and forms of government going back into antiquity.
All Feudal Occult governments..had no seperation of church and state. IN fact the Church was necessary for the maintenance of all power. This is true going back to the first and ancient recorded civilizations.

This means another religion has been secretly superimposed over the top of the religious beliefs/limits on our people and government for which most peoples take for granted. This has been done without the knowledge and awareness of most of the people affected by it. This is the Occult/Feudal nature of our government ..no matter what they try to tell you.

What they dont want is for the public ever to awaken from their sleep. They will give you anything but the tools to awaken from our drug induced slumber.

There is a Feudal Royalty taking place..without the knowledge of most of the public. And many of our leaders are under a secret oath which is in direct conflict with their public oath. They also swear not to tell the public that this is going on.
This is a Religion going on in government. And not the Religion most of us think is going on.

Socialism is Communism ..is Feudalism..is Royalty. This is precisely the system of government we overthrew in the Revolutionary War.
We have been miseducated to not know the difference and never catch it. We just know something is not right..not correct..but cannot most of us tell the fingerprint of what is going on around us unless we know some history and are able to connect the dots.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 24-3-2009 by orangetom1999]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 01:15 PM
link   
reply to post by 31337
 


Half the poeple that own firearms are not necessarily members of the NRA or agree with their tactics. Just like not all animal advocates agree with peta policies.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 01:19 PM
link   
reply to post by orangetom1999
 


This rings true to me. Obama was elected on hope and faith, nothing tangible at all. The government/priesthood has the power to shape our lives with laws and policies. Someone said that since our currency is no longer value based (on gold or silver) its value is totally a matter of faith. People will (must) do anything to get it to live.

The priests/congressmen stand up in their clouds of incense in their sacred chambers and concoct their trillion dollar spells/sacraments/bailouts. yes, sounds like religion to me.

I hadn't thought through that aristocracy is a form of feudalism but yes of course it is. We have apparently "elected" our way back to square one.


People are certainly waking up but I don't know where this will lead. Our president is not so much punch drunk as in a parallel universe. His easy laughter shows that he feels immune to the problems of the present because for him those very problems provide the force of his power. He is spending extravagant amounts of money as fast as possible on the basis of that power. Is this to create an even bigger separation between the congressional elite and the commoners? to collapse the government or something I'm entirely missing?

does anybody think the purpose of trillions of dollars of debt is to improve things for the american people?



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 03:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
Jesus christ give the man 90 days before you start the pointless baseless attacks that really come across as some kind of unconscious racism more than kind of legit criticism.


Yeah, of course it's racism...


Too bad Bush didn't have that excuse lol...

Just sayin'...



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 04:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by orangetom1999

Historically ..the best form of government intelligent, reasonable, knowledgable men can devise on their own merits and demerits is....

Tyranny.

Always and without exception.


Oh OT.
You know I adore you. But I swear sometimes.

Lol.

You are in dire need of Plato's Republic.

classics.mit.edu...


That question, I said, is easily answered: the four governments of which I spoke, so far as they have distinct names, are, first, those of Crete and Sparta, which are generally applauded; what is termed oligarchy comes next; this is not equally approved, and is a form of government which teems with evils: thirdly, democracy, which naturally follows oligarchy, although very different: and lastly comes tyranny, great and famous, which differs from them all, and is the fourth and worst disorder of a State.


He makes a long and considered argument about all the forms of government mentioned here, and their costs to society and the leaders of them as well. Tyranny doesnt fare well. And a quick read makes it apparent just why that is the case. And why it must always be the case.

Perhaps you meant instead a meritocracy with a totalitarian leader like the Republic calls for? Some who has absolute rule, but in which extreme limits placed upon who can be that someone? Where only the most just, fair, noble, wise, and selfless of all human beings could ever reach that position? And in which there are built in safeguards against power corrupting? Those being that the ruler has no right to own property, or profit at all from their rule other than the reward of living in a justly ruled state? And one in which anyone born of parents of any class, if they possess the characteristics of fairness, justness, wisdom, incorruptibility and selflessness, would have the ability to rise to the position (and assume the great responsibility) of ruling someday? So that your individual merit, not the happenstance of your birth truly dictated your level of responsibility in the society?

If THATS what you meant, I agree.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 06:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
Jesus christ give the man 90 days before you start the pointless baseless attacks that really come across as some kind of unconscious racism more than kind of legit criticism. The anti-Obama sentiment in this country since he took office has been absolutely pathetic. There has been so few criticism based in any kind of reality and so much dramatic insulting non-sense being said by people who are obviously just not comfortable with Obama for one reason or another unrelated to politics. The conservative and racist sects in this country have just become silly children since Jan. 20th

[edit on 22-3-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]


And the world is watching all of this. What must they think? And, wasn't it Sean Hannity who disapproved of bashing a sitting president during war time? And who bashes President Obama more than Sean Hannity? It's pathetic for sure. It's disgusting.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by aero56]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 06:16 PM
link   
reply to post by aero56
 


It is a bit different.

What SH was saying as were many folks who suggested that you don't trash a president about his handling of a war when the country was at war. He was also speaking to those folks in government who were vocally blasting GW throughout the war. That is quite different than having rigorous debate about the goals and objectives of the war.

Nobody is blasting the current administration by how the administration on the handling of Afganistan or Iraq. They are blasting him on his handling of the economy. The financial situation is dire, but it is not a war in the context of what SH was discussing.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 07:57 PM
link   
reply to post by earlywatcher
 


Well for a start hes trying to straighten out a failing/failed banking system. But do remember that he is the man who chooses the general direction of the flow of the current government (or so democracy at work would have you believe). He is not the person who writes the new laws to be added to statute, he is not the one who actualy is tasked with composing new legislation. He is the man who decides what flavour the chips are, its another mans job to make sure the seasoning is just right. See what Im saying ? You vote for your figure head, for the attitude of the man, his choices filter down as new bills , and then you get new rules. You know the game. Unfortunately this president could use some better support staff, better ministers shall we say , than he currently has, and thats a shame, because with the right staff around him, that guy could be the greatest world leader this centuary has ever seen . No question.
I dont see anything anti capitalist about the way hes doing things. He wants the system to work, and I think thats something which would benifit capitalism greatly. Lets face it , its neither fair nor conducive to a happy healthy populous for a fat cat banker to walk off with a tit load of cash , while the men and women who sweat for thier bucks get screwed and loose thier homes, but it happens.
Trouble is , no one is prepared to admit that he is right every time he says that this will be a long game. It will . If you want all the solutions right now, or yesterday , then you dont have a clue what governance is, how it works , or what the problems created by national greed, apathy , and stupidity have really done to your nations financial , governmental,and cultural systems.
Now with that in mind, just because you dont understand the depth of the problem, doesnt mean you can go slamming the guy when hes trying to fix something as thoroughly wrecked as your nations financial infrastructure.
i dont understand the first thing about engines, but if I took a car to a garage and the fellow there told me that something I thought would be a quick fix would actualy require a bit of a rebuild, then guess what ? I would have to take that on the chin and cough up , or get a new car. Same choice goes for the system in america right now. Either let the man who got voted in fix the damn thing , or buy yourselves plane tickets and get out of dodge.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 08:33 PM
link   
reply to post by TrueBrit
 


I don't think anybody expects an instant fix. It sounds like you've been listening to obama's talking points about how important his plans are and his vision. Nobody would argue that education needs reform, but many of us would argue that throwing money at it to build more schools with more money for teachers is that the way to fix the problems. We all agree that we need energy alternatives but many of us believe cap and trade will hurt more than it will help. Health care is a huge problem but emphasizing health information management is not enough. there are huge incestuous problems within the industry that I'm not hearing a word about. Money is going to groups who got obama elected, only he calls it energy, education and health care. Union members everywhere will be huge benefactors. Everything he does increases the size of government at federal, state and local levels, and the ongoing financial burden that entails. He manages to give huge amounts of money to failing companies with no strings attached, then rages at the unfairness of them taking the money and doing dumb things with it.

I agree that this has come about slowly, at the hands of our elected officials who changed the rules so these things could happen. Obama thinks of himself as a socialist even if you don't think of him that way. He takes pride in it and believes that taxing people and companies to death while enlarging government is the way to happiness.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 08:37 PM
link   
Whiners. You're angry at the guy that's trying to fix the mess caused by Bush. Also, Obama said today that there are clear signs of progress now...



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by Shades1035
Whiners. You're angry at the guy that's trying to fix the mess caused by Bush. Also, Obama said today that there are clear signs of progress now...

1) Blame game
2) Hey, if obama says so then everything must be fine.

Politicians do lie occasionally

[edit on 24-3-2009 by R3KR]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by earlywatcher
reply to post by TrueBrit
 


I don't think anybody expects an instant fix. It sounds like you've been listening to obama's talking points about how important his plans are and his vision.

Health care is a huge problem but emphasizing health information management is not enough. there are huge incestuous problems within the industry that I'm not hearing a word about.

. He manages to give huge amounts of money to failing companies with no strings attached, then rages at the unfairness of them taking the money and doing dumb things with it.

I agree that this has come about slowly, at the hands of our elected officials who changed the rules so these things could happen.

Obama thinks of himself as a socialist even if you don't think of him that way. He takes pride in it and believes that taxing people and companies to death while enlarging government is the way to happiness.



Point one: Well as it happens I have been listening to what Obama has been saying IN GENERAL. I have also been listening to what the press, members of both the US and UK parliments have been saying, and it seems to me, that far from going off half cocked, and trying to fix it all at once like a moron , he is actualy taking steps at a solid pace at least, even if it may feel to you as if his steps are wandering down dark paths. Thats an opinion that not everyone holds though, and it might be wise to look at what might be the logical reasoning behind what hes doing, rather than just assuming ineptitude lol.
Point Two: You are quite right, you arent hearing anything about the systematic failiures in the healthcare sector. But that might just as easily be because there are things that need putting in place to allow reform in that regard, like for instance a little stimulus perhaps??
Point Three: To be honest, I think he was dissapointed by the reactions he got from those companies and individuals running them. If I got a second chance to do the right thing, after a massive cock up, then I dont think I would squander that, especialy with all matters financial being under a microscope at the moment. I dont think Obama thought for a moment that someone in control of a business would be so crass as to basicaly rob a nation which is trying to keep the business which is fleecing it, alive. Now you can call that naive , but to be frank , if someone did that here and I knew where they were... Well... the theif would be forcably penetrated by 30 german shepards and a kebab skewer before long, and I will say no more on that.
Point Four: Its deeper than that sir. I think that what happened here was a plan implemented years ago , as a reaction to increasingly liberal (and therefore moraly supierior) attitudes toward ones fellow man, which became prevalent in the late nineties and early noughties. Bascicaly , I believe that someone knew back then, that the people would demand a candidate they could get behind, and who appeared to/did really care about the nation as an ideal and as a group of people spinning round on a little ball of rock in the middle of a universe beyond human comprehension. I believe that a plan was built up where by a good candidate would be bought foward, only to realise that the way ahead , the way to change, advancement , and enlightenment on a national, or even global level, was blocked by unforseen circumstance. What better a way to crush the spirit of the already downhearted majority , than to see a promising leader reduced to the role of clearing a traffic accident he didnt cause?
Point Five: Well regarding taxes, I have never been one to accept the idea that anyone who has under 500k should EVER be taxed. But regardless of my truely socialist agendas (lol) what should be kept in mind, is that since the collapses of international banking groups, the only option available is to borrow, spend, and tax. Its got to come from somewhere hasnt it ? The only other way would be to liquidate the companies that caused the worst trouble, and dole the proceeds out amongst the affected areas. Trouble with that is that its a socialist idea, and this particular one would be impotent to say the least, because the problem is more costly than the sum worth of all the causative companies. I would love to know where you suggest one would aquire the money which is so obviously required to fix the nations financial and general corperate sectors?



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 10:59 PM
link   
reply to post by Shades1035
 

"Whiners. You're angry at the guy that's trying to fix the mess caused by Bush."


Trying to fix the problem? How, by putting us trillions further in debt?
Second line.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 11:06 PM
link   
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


The only problem with Plato's idea of a perfect leader is that in reality, nobody meeting his qualifications would desire the job at all.

They would have to be FORCED to do the work. Which he touches on as well, I believe.
It requires a very well educated populace to implement. Something the US currently lacks... to say the least.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:09 PM
link   
reply to post by Jay-in-AR
 



Jay-in-AR,

Hey dude...how about those Redskins, Did you see the LA Lakers Game.

How about that NASCAR Race?? American Idol?? Dancing with the Stars??

Being an American is great isnt it??

Do I need to take a DNA test on this one...a lie detector test???

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:01 PM
link   
Brit Guy,

Take a close look at your statement for which I quote.


I don't think Obama thought for a moment that someone in control of a business would be so crass as to basically rob a nation which is trying to keep the business which is fleecing it, alive.


I do not believe you are even aware how naive this statement is on your part.

Rob a nation you say. I cannot imagine what you are thinking here.

Whenever a government continually ..administration after administration..goes on a spending spree for various programs, financed by deficit spending..ie..borrowing..they depreciate or lower the purchasing power of a nations currency by increasing the money supplies in the economy.

In our misguided intelligence we have been miseducated to call this inflation. The correct word for it is depreciation..the loss of purchasing power of our moneys..ie..the dollar ..due to an increase in the supply of these dollars.

What this does to us as Americans is make the dollar weaker in purchasing power and therefore it takes more of them to purchase the same thing it did last week. This is evidenced by the sudden rise in prices of homes years ago...to some astonishing peaks as money availability increased demand and prices increased. Now on the other end this artificial market is going bust..but is sure was a big political selling point and got someone lots of votes at election time. Many of them are paying for it now. But some political parties got supported out of this system.

What inflation/depreciation actually is ...by deficit spending tactics...is a tax. It is an additional tax.

A tax being..... work we do for which we get no goods or services. Same result as a tax.

This is also precisely the very definition of iniflation...work we do for which we get no goods or services.

So you see...we are actually getting two taxes here...an income tax..and also an inflation tax which at times is quite fierce.

Some of us still recall when interest rates went to over 20% to hide the amout of deficit shoved into the economy so quickly.

You can put any name you want on it but it amounts to a Tax..hidden concealed taxation. No financial expert on the boob tube or radio will tell you this simple truth. You are never to have enough acumen to figure this one out on your own.

You will find this information in of all places "Money in Colonial New England" by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

"Inflation/Depreciation is disguised taxation."

Deficit spending on government programs of any type allows the government to steal goods and services out of the economy many months before the rest of us see it happening...and we only see it when the prices rise. This is stealing and destroying the production base of our economy resulting in those companies who can ...moving their production facilities where the taxation is less and the profits/labor costs more conducive to good business. They must or their competitors will do this and soon enough own their businesses.

THe Crassness Brit Guy is the absolute gall and boldness of a government systematically destroying the productive base of an economy in order to spend moneys created by deficit and keep getting re elected by give away programs...on the public purse.

In America this fingerprint I have been describing has been going on since Lyndon Baines Johnson and the "Great Society." It has systematically destroyed the purchasing power of the American Dollar.
At the same time it has encroached on the Liberties and Freedoms of the American people to support more of this nonsense.

Brit Guy..it is our own government which has been crass...in this ..both political parties have partaken of this drug. And now they want to drug us all while they continue to steal from us.
Soon enough it will be to loot what remaining liquidity is in our economy. Our retirement and insurance funds..if we are not actually and already there.

Any government which can get all the moneys they want buy deficit spending does not need our tax moneys. They need us ...we ourselves to not have our hard earned moneys ...and take these moneys by taxation..so that we are not out bidding the government for goods and services in the economy we are laboring to support.
The goal of taxation is for the government to be able to outbid us for everything in the economy and keep us from realizing this is happening...while they systematically destroy the ability of the rest of us to contract and obligate to specific performance...contract. It is difficult to contract when it gets to bad that you do not know if the dollar will hold sufficient purchasing power to make a profit.

This is what government does not want us to know or realize..while they fill our heads with drivel like NASCAR...Basketball, football, Dancing with the Stars and other rubbish.

It is obvious to those us us able to see that one of the first priorities of this administration and political party was to secure their voting base...by government programs. To keep power in perpetuity. This is not a new tactic.

Since the rise of deficit spending on the part of government...Americans have continually paid two taxes...the direct taxes coming out of their paychecks. And also an inflation/depreciation tax which at times has been quite fierce. Little wonder why so many Americans are becoming resentful of Big Government.

The other very interesting facet of this crassness of government is their ability to hide what they have been doing to the people they are supposed to be representing....while fleecing them and continually taking over numerous businesses by government regulation.

Any government which cannot maintain a solvent budget process is not a candidate for running any private business.....period. THey have no place telling private peoples how to run their businesses or affairs.

This is the great hoax and abominable crassness of government while trying to establish themselves as some kind of "Holy Ground."
Many of us do not buy into it..no matter what administration/political party is in office.

Be very careful what you call crassness Brit Guy.
There are people out here who know differently.

Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom



new topics

top topics



 
28
<< 8  9  10    12 >>

log in

join