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Obama's trick to ram carbon taxes through without debate

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posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by j2000
reply to post by kettlebellysmith
 


This would be an important reason why you should "Know" who you vote for. Not saying you did as I don't know.

But all you had to do was look at the very little record he had, who he surrounded himself with and this is what we now have.

When you voted for Bush, we should have known that we where getting someone trying to impress his Tyrannical Dad. I met that A-hole! Bush Sr. that is.


Knowing who you're voting for requires that we actually wake up and see the world for what it really is. We elect politicians based on hopes and promises that, in the end, turn out to be half-truths and flat out lies. Once in office, they could care less what they promised.

In reality, the promises they keep are the promises made to further the agendas of the powerful elite who finance their campaigns - not to us.

Until we get rid of the puppet masters and the scum that have infiltrated every aspect of our government and trash the Federal Reserve, we don't stand a chance. Kennedy tried and it cost him his life.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by JohnHolmes]




posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by YeahSureIWILL
I will not ever pay taxes on breathing gas.
He can try and push them through, all he wants.
I aint paying them, in fact, they can pay for ME to live in prison, before I will pay 1 freakin cent of c02 gas tax.


You won't have to worry about them paying for you to live in prison when they can use the CO2 to exterminate whoever and whenever they want in Fema concentration camps.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 03:05 AM
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The OP and link don't seem to actually say anything besides a possibility of reconciliation - AND the link is to a FoxNews blog!

I feel a lot of people are getting worked up over something that is pretty irrelevant at this point. I suppose the info is helpful but there is nothing really being 'stated' here...

please forgive my ignorance if there's a long backstory here that I am unaware of.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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Listen people, you need to relax. First off, cap & trade is not a tax. It is an incentive system which steers companies towards environmental responsibility. In the long term, we need to cut carbon emissions -- the planet cannot handle us burning fossil fuels at an ever increasing rate. The real crooks here are the energy conglomerates (big oil & big coal) that control a huge portion of our economies. They want to keep their stranglehold on our economy. I wouldn't be surprised if this was posted by some energy firm PR troll.

The rest of the post is garbage:



But, if Obama gets his way, you can be assured that he cares not for your voice or your well-being. He will do what he wants to get his way.


Why can I be assured? WTF are you talking about?



His promises of transparency, bipartisanship, and open discussion are nothing more than empty lies he used in order to get elected.


No, his promises of changing this country's direction are what got him elected, by a huge electoral majority. Sorry you are in the minority.



Haven't we been screwed enough with Tarp and the Omnibus bill?


Not sure how I have been screwed. My taxes haven't gone up a penny. The banking system is slowly being stabilized and Wall Street robber barons are being reined in. Obama is setting the table for the next round of long term economic growth. Now if we can only end the drug war and tax weed like cigarettes...

Read a bit about Cap & Trade systems on Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by Zenagain
 



Originally posted by Zenagain
Here's an idea guy....let go of your hatred.


No hatred here, guy. Just reporting the facts.



"But, if Obama gets his way, you can be assured that he cares not for your voice"


Our voices were the ones that put him into office, both by popular AND Electoral votes. Yours just happens to have been one of the dissenting views.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by Zenagain]


You voted for the largest tax increase in history? You voted for broken promises in hiring lobbyists? You voted for broken promises in the form of over 8,500 earmarks in the budget?

I'm glad I didn't.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by chiefbluefeather
 



Originally posted by chiefbluefeather
Listen people, you need to relax. First off, cap & trade is not a tax. It is an incentive system which steers companies towards environmental responsibility. In the long term, we need to cut carbon emissions -- the planet cannot handle us burning fossil fuels at an ever increasing rate. The real crooks here are the energy conglomerates (big oil & big coal) that control a huge portion of our economies. They want to keep their stranglehold on our economy. I wouldn't be surprised if this was posted by some energy firm PR troll.


Global warming is a scam invented to implement cap and trade.

Do some research into the 'cap' portion of the bill. Then report back on how it will be ratcheted downward regularly, thus increasing costs to industry and ultimately the consumer.

The biggest hit will be huge increases in the cost of energy.

Then do some research into the 'trade' portion of the bill. Then report back on the speculator market (the same type that drove gas prices up to $5.00/gallon) that will be created to handle these 'trades'. Then tell us about the huge governmental bureacracy (funded by more taxes on us, of course) that will be created to oversee this boondoggle.




His promises of transparency, bipartisanship, and open discussion are nothing more than empty lies he used in order to get elected.



No, his promises of changing this country's direction are what got him elected, by a huge electoral majority. Sorry you are in the minority.


He ran his campaign on change, but not the type of change he is effecting. He lied to you.

And I may be in the minority, but the numbers of disenfranchised voters increases daily.




Haven't we been screwed enough with Tarp and the Omnibus bill?



Not sure how I have been screwed. My taxes haven't gone up a penny. The banking system is slowly being stabilized and Wall Street robber barons are being reined in.


You're not serious? Why won't Obama tell us what happened to $2 trillion of bailout money? Because it went into the robber barons pockets (around the globe, btw).

What are you getting out of it? Thirteen dollars a week, to be dropped down to $8/week after a year?


You (and all of us) are getting stuck with the tab. That's what you're getting.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by jsobecky]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
Obama promised that anyone making less than $250,000 would not see a tax increase, and in fact, should see a decrease in their taxes.


“I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes” (Barack Obama, September 12, 2008, Dover, NH).



the tax increases keep adding up.


Originally posted by CreeWolf
--Democrat Pork called "Stimulus"
--Fairness Doctrine under the guise of "local radio only" rules which will be attempted by the new FCC.
--The constant lies about "not knowing" about people around him.
KEEP TAXING BIG BUSINESS TO DEATH!

Sound familiar? Atlas Shrugged .. Who is John Galt?



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by amari

Originally posted by YeahSureIWILL
I will not ever pay taxes on breathing gas.
He can try and push them through, all he wants.
I aint paying them, in fact, they can pay for ME to live in prison, before I will pay 1 freakin cent of c02 gas tax.


You won't have to worry about them paying for you to live in prison when they can use the CO2 to exterminate whoever and whenever they want in Fema concentration camps.


Hmmm. So the Fema camps are real? I wish someone would start another thread on the camps.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by kettlebellysmith
 


Not to mention the added costs of living through consumer inflation of food, energy, gas etc through drastically weakening our dollar.

And those tax breaks? They amount to something like $14 a pay check for the average worker.


Ya'll said change was coming, and to be fair, no one was ever specific about whether it would be good or bad. Just change.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by paddlefish jr.
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 

Its OK if liberals hurt others by taxing us to the point of taking food off our families tables, allowing those that are here illegally to take our jobs while forcing us to pay for their health care, and demonize those who still believe in the constitution while eating away at our rights?

Dollars that will be taken away from us for carbon trades could just as well be spent on sending our kids to college or planning for retirement.


[edit on 21-3-2009 by paddlefish jr.]


This post is so over the top I can not believe what I have just read.

So you are for the government telling you how to spend your money - which is what this is?

Hell, that is even if that money would go to colleges etc...which I doubt.

Like others have said - he promised no new taxes to people making $250,000 or less...HA.

Like many people have been saying, he is a fox. First it was the sin taxes which was heavily argued by each side - but this IS a tax on everyone.

The only people not getting taxed are the ones making $0 - but if he could tax them he sure would.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by its bologna
.............
Also, the stimulus bill included funds to poor people to weatherize their homes (insulation, new windows etc).

So, I'm wondering if any of you have any suggestions on how to reduce carbon emissions? So far asking these companies to reduce emissions hasn't done the trick.


I doubt there will be any money left to pay for people to be able to better protect their homes in winter.

Anyway, can you show us absolute proof that "we have to reduce carbon emissions"?

I am not asking for "opinion". There are too many environmentalists with opinions and claims. Of course, Global Climate Models are also not proof.

Throughtout the history of Earth, the atmosphere has had more atmospheric CO2 than now, but for some reason we are being told, or being brainwahsed into believing that now is different.

Not only that but at the end all that will happen is that those who have carbon to trade will get more money from companies that don't have enough carbon to trade, so how is this helping for companies to stop puting CO2 in the atmosphere when the carbon trade just exchanges money?

At the end the tax payer has several dozen new taxes to pay, and companies will continue to emit CO2 as much as they want to if they agree to pay other companies, and rich people for the carbon trade that they have to sell....

Is this what is going to "save the world"?



[edit on 22-3-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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the financial sector which needs high return to satisfy it's greed.....will likely or already game the carbon trading derivatives market to make $ (umm i mean save the enviornment).... trashing obama is fair now he is just a puppet to the power structure...but anyone is kidding themselves to think a republican out of congress that is electable (read puppet of industry)..would be any better....LOL

i wonder if those enviornmentalists with their vocal emotional support (which may be of good intention for a cleaner earth) for Man made GW are starting to question wether their good intentions are BEING USED as POLITICAL LEVERAGE to market and make it popular to rally for the "fight" and policy's to beat GW....and thus make it socially detremental to not believe in the GW agenda...which is a thinly disguised Financial and Political Agenda for Money and power while not really giving a care about the "enviornment or GW) outside for the fact that they can game it with political leverage a lap dog media,etc......

perhaps enviornmentalists will learn a lesson that they were selfish (but out of good intention) and willingly ignorant to instill their trust in politicions because they know GW was too big of an issue not to have on their side (i.e be legit) to get the enviornmental movement's ball rolling with an assist from politico's "gaming a system for profit"....err saving us from "GW". This need to legitamize GW for the benefit of their enviornmental dreams may have stopped them (cognitive dissonance) from taking the next step and thinking .....what might the drawback's be for pounding the pavement in order to support a cause which is merely an excuse for poltics to tax the air we breathe...and lower our standard of living further

throughout history people have been played..........to support profits for capitalists or power for politioc's / (or back in the "day" religious leaders .......willing to market /deceive them........you think with billions of dollar on the line...now .....(GW agenda) is any different? Being played is sometimes part of being human...don't be afraid to admit it out of thinking it is an admission of lack of intelligence....unless of course you let them fool you again.....

wake up....if not for yourself .....but for you stop giving unknowing support to things that come back to bite american's in the ASS....and you stop and THINK TWICE before growing popular support thru emotionally charged yet misdirected support for things you don't understand or care to



[edit on 22-3-2009 by cpdaman]

[edit on 22-3-2009 by cpdaman]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by cpdaman
 


I hope in my life time to see a significant bloc of Independents in the House. I know they won't be immune to corruption and the power of the Aisle, but I can still have that slim hope that we, the people, will wrestle a small bit of power from the two conforming parties.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 10:39 AM
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Wait, surely you aren't saying that a politician lied to the american people? No way! I just cannot believe that a politician could possibly lie about a tax increase.

Read my lips: "NO NEW TAXES"



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by chiefbluefeather


Not sure how I have been screwed. My taxes haven't gone up a penny. The banking system is slowly being stabilized and Wall Street robber barons are being reined in. Obama is setting the table for the next round of long term economic growth.


Not sure how you are being screwed?

Taxes - You honestly think your taxes have not gone up? Take a look at what was reported by Bloomberg on Feb 2nd 2009


That is $1.7 trillion in future taxes. Nobody knows exactly when the tax hike will come. It might even be that we shall try to foist the costs on our children. Still, those planning their financial futures should account for the dramatically higher taxes that will be the result of this year’s policies.

Check the Numbers

Suppose the government eventually decides to allocate the bill according to the latest distribution of taxes. In 2006, for example, people with incomes between $50,000 and $75,000 paid about 10 percent of all income-tax revenue. As a thought experiment, how much would those people’s taxes go up if Uncle Sam raises 10 percent of $1.7 trillion from them?

If you run the numbers for that and other income brackets, you’d better sit down. Our spending policies are not digging a hole, they are conjuring up a Stygian abyss.

If your family income in 2006 was between $75,000 and $100,000, the extra taxes that you will have to pay at some point in the future add up to about $14,000.

If your income was between $100,000 and $200,000, your future tax hike will be about $28,000. If your income was between $200,000 and $500,000, then your future tax bill just went up by $90,299.

Everybody Pays

source>bloomberg

Keep in mind that was Feb. 2nd. How much more has been spent?

You honestly think wall street is slowly stabilizing?

Greenspan doesn't. On Friday March 20th 2009 he said that the banks will need ANOTHER 750 BILLION DOLLARS

The Federal Reserve, moving independently announced on Wed. March 18th 2009 that it would flood 1.2 Trillion into the economy by buying up our debt. Be aware that this new 1.2 trillion is NOT the stimulus money that the government borrowed. It is newly printed money that the fed borrowed from itself. This Weakens the dollar! But they don't care. They only care about getting the money moving. Not the fact that the cost of Everything will go up because of it.

This move is being called a Desperate gamble
I don't know about you, but that does not seem to be news of stabilization.

You don't think Cap and Trade is a tax?


The last thing we need is a massive tax increase in a recession, but reportedly that's what the White House is offering: up to $1.9 trillion in tax hikes on every single American who drives a car, turns on a light switch or buys a product made in the United States," said Michael Steel, a spokesman for House Minority Leader John A. Boehner. "And since this energy tax won't affect manufacturers in Mexico, India and China, it will do nothing but drive American jobs overseas

The Washington Times does, and so do I.
How can this be a good idea?

No partisanship here! I do not care who. I care about the actions, I try not to ever say anything partisan because it ruins it for me when these very important matters turn into my guys better or, see your guys sucks
If I do mention Obama it is only because he happens to be our President right now.

It does NOT MATTER who you voted for or what party you claim!! It is pointless for us to accuse the other guy and equally pointless to defend our guy.

Next week the UN is expected to announce that it will no longer use dollar as the worlds central currency. Instead creating a new accounting unit. That could be the knockout blow for the dollar.

Our concern should be THE FEDERAL RESERVE and the elite controlled central banking system. Fractional reserve banking.. The Corporate lobby.

I wish I could blame Obama, or that I could have blamed Bush. First we have to return those controls to our leaders, until then, they are enslaved by this system every bit as much as we are.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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In addition forbes had this to say


WASHINGTON, D.C.--As President Obama prepares to send his budget to Congress next week, he's run into a bit of a stumbling block. The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that the national debt under the president's budget will be $2.3 trillion deeper than the White House estimates.

Now for the real bad news: Both estimates are optimistic. If the economy continues to deteriorate faster than economists project, those numbers will balloon further.

Over the next decade, the CBO projects that the White House budget will run $9.3 trillion in deficits. The White House projection had been $7 trillion. The problem for Obama, as his budget moves to Congress: Lawmakers tend to trust CBO figures over all others. "CBO's word is the gospel," Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee, said in a statement.

When the White House released its budget in February, its economic forecast was in the same ballpark as other estimates, but decidedly on the sunny side. One assumption, for example, was that the average unemployment for 2009 would be 8.1%. That assumption was quickly blown to pieces when the Bureau of Labor Statistics announced two weeks later that unemployment had already reached that level by January. The CBO projects 2009 unemployment will instead be 8.8% before peaking in 2010.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

story here

The larget deficit in history...by a mile.

Buried under an ever growing mountain of debt that will last for decades.

Just who did you think was going to have to pay for that?

[edit on 3/22/2009 by AlienChaser]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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It is a good thing that I like John Williams's "Imperial March". I hear it in my head every time I read one of these threads...

Well since the Tea Parties have gone unnoticed by and large, how about a Carbon Party? Burn something...like all of DC for example. Just to show that we are not afraid of the released carbon bogeyman...or Al Gore for that matter.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Our only hope is going to be in 2010. If and only if, we can get enough independants or republicans (though I'm as sick and tired of them as I am the dems) to lame-duck Pres. Obama and stop his march to complete socialism. Otherwise -see ya' at the govm't cheese lines!-



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


come on guys it's been a while that the whole planet is angry at America for not having signed the Kyoto Protocol, which is already a big shame for you.
More, I'm glad Obama forces the taxes, it'll make lazy fat americans understand that taking one's car to drive 400 meters to the local store is not that necessary. You'll have a crash course on energy-saving programs under the Obama era, whether you like it or not. Stop polluting full speed and the world of ecology will maybe have a nicer approach towards you

[edit on 22-3-2009 by MattMulder]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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please, the U.S. is a big polluter, rofl. what about China and India?!

cap and trade, carbon credits, whatever.....

whatever the name, it still equals taxes

just more ways for the rich to get richer and create a larger gulf between them and the rest of us. ever wonder why you only hear this garbage in western civilization?

[edit on 3/22/2009 by LiveFreeOrDie..]



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