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Obama's trick to ram carbon taxes through without debate

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posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 05:02 PM
People of The United States Of America do you realize what is and will happen to our country if the carbon offset tax goes into affect? We will lose our competitive worldwide edge when it comes to selling our goods overseas. India and China will not impose such taxes and guess where our jobs will go. Yes I do understand we have lost millions of jobs to foreign competition and cheap labor and we will lose even more jobs if this goes into affect.

Do you realize at this moment advertising is going on T.V. in the U.S. to lure our industry and businesses overseas with massive incentives and tax breaks. Will the U.S. become a ghost town of businesses that went overseas to get away from run away taxation, government regulations and controls.

The obama administration has no clue what they are doing it is as though we have turned a bunch of kids lose in the Whitehouse to run our country.
Instead of cutting back the fat in this country in so far as government spending and expansion they are going back to the old ways of tax and spend and tax and spend. The U.S. bank account in reality is empty we have borrowed ourselves into guaranteed oblivion.

posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 05:48 PM

Originally posted by chiefbluefeather
Listen people, you need to relax. First off, cap & trade is not a tax. It is an incentive system which steers companies towards environmental responsibility.

Ohh, ok, my bad. I didn't get the memo about not use the word "tax" anymore in favor of the word "incentive". I guess Obama really has cut taxes then by this logic. But I must ask, why stop with the carbon tax...umm, I mean incentive. Let apply it to all:

Accounts Receivable Incentive
Building Permit Incentive
Capital Gains Incentive
CDL license Incentive
Tobacco Incentive
Corporate Income Incentive
Court Fines (indirect incentives)
Dog License Incentive
Death incentive
Federal Income Incentive
Federal Unemployment Incentive (FUTA)
Fishing License Incentive
Food License Incentive
Fuel permit incentive
Gasoline Incentive (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Incentive
Inheritance Incentive Interest expense (incentive on the money)
Inventory incentive IRS Interest Charges (incentive on top of incentive)
IRS Penalties (incentive on top of incentive)
Liquor Incentive
Local Income Incentive
Luxury Incentives
Marriage License Incentive
Medicare Incentive
Property Incentive
Real Estate Incentive
Septic Permit Incentive
Service Charge Incentives
Social Security Incentive
Road Usage Incentives (Truckers)
Sales Incentives
Recreational Vehicle Incentive
Road Toll Booth Incentives
School Incentive
State Income Incentive
State Unemployment Incentive (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise incentive
Telephone federal universal service fee incentive
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge incentives
Telephone minimum usage surcharge incentive
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges incentive
Telephone state and local incentive
Telephone usage charge incentive
Toll Bridge Incentives
Toll Tunnel Incentives
Traffic Fines (indirect incentive)
Trailer registration incentive
Utility Incentives
Vehicle License Registration Incentive
Vehicle Sales Incentive
Watercraft registration Incentive
Well Permit Incentive
Workers Compensation Incentive

posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Verd_Vhett
I Say we should all Sponser a Slap and obama voter day! They need to a good Slap and a We told you so. I swear if this country ever Degenorates in to a lawLess civil war these are the people I am going after first. Obamnites are all Enemeys to the constitution!

Noooooo. You really think it would have been any different with McCain?

It's the same. was meant to be the same and will remain the same.

It is not the messenger who is important but the message.

In this case..

It's not the president that matters but the Overall plan.

The plan is the plan and all taking part in it knew their roles.

Don't act like it's just Obama.

And yes I was/am an Obama supporter , No I did not vote ( by choice ).

I support him because he is our current leader. That support has been lessening though in the past 2 weeks now that I realize more of just what is going on.

Remember when Biden said Obama would have to deal with something great.

This financial crisis was it. He told us because he and others in power knew.

fast foward to today and we are now finding out just how many people knew this was going to go down.

posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 06:14 PM
reply to post by MattMulder

:shk: :shk:

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
I support him because he is our current leader.

that's a poor reason to support someone who is screwing up.
"I suppoprt obama's screwups just because he's in charge'.
Kinda silly .. don't ya' think?

posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 06:21 PM

Originally posted by MattMulder
reply to post by jsobecky

come on guys it's been a while that the whole planet is angry at America for not having signed the Kyoto Protocol, which is already a big shame for you.
More, I'm glad Obama forces the taxes, it'll make lazy fat americans understand that taking one's car to drive 400 meters to the local store is not that necessary. You'll have a crash course on energy-saving programs under the Obama era, whether you like it or not. Stop polluting full speed and the world of ecology will maybe have a nicer approach towards you

Gimme a break! Just because we live in (arguably)the best country in the world does not mean we have to kowtow to every environmental (questionable) or legal whim existing in other countries. As for lazy, and fat, most I know are in shape or are you just refering to a typical anti-american stereo-type?
Should this type of post be a forum for cultural stereo-types?
Who are you going to insult next?

[edit on 22-3-2009 by MattMulder]

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 12:09 AM
reply to post by LiquidMirage

Hey, you forgot about Exotic Dancer Incentives!

This wasn't a one liner!

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 12:10 AM
Dumb double post thingy!

[edit on 23-3-2009 by CreeWolf]

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 08:46 AM
No surprise, obama is an ass*$%^ and all the morons that voted for him, well thanks! Look at what you have done. And the thing is, you will be most effected because most of his votes came from poor people that thought they wouldn't have to worry about paying for their mortgage or their gas.... Well look at what you have accomplished. This jerk doesn't care about anything except undoing all of the reasons this is AMERICA! He needs to be rid of, I will not say how, but we all well know!

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 08:49 AM
reply to post by LucidDreamer85

How about since you are an obama supporter you pay my tax increase instead of me paying for your mortgage? Yeah, bet you wouldn't like that! It is okay with these liberals as long as it benifits them, sitting on their asses and doing nothing but collecting government funds. Spread my work ethic, not my wealth!

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 11:26 AM
Obama has the nation dazed and confused. All eyes have been on AIG, the economy and Jay Leno.

Meanwhile on Capital Hill....HR 1388 is about to walk its way into our living rooms and all of those gullible voters who thought Obama wouldn't raise taxes are going to get slapped in the face with this carbon tax that will be buried in every utility and fuel bill or any bill from an entity that has been taxed and can pass the cost on to the consumer.

Time to grab your ankles the money has to come from someone. We all know the govt. is essentially broke.

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 05:39 PM
There is some SERIOUS IGNORANCE as to what cap and trade is.

There are a lot of folks here that are repeating GOP talking points as a definition for Cap and Trade..rolled right into the "global warming is a hoax" bit of spin.


I don't want to go off on a rambling post, but many years ago during an economics class I learned of those shocking truths.

We (you and I via tax dollars) subsidize corporations that pollute. Paper companies, Oil Refineries, Energy Companies, Mining Companies etc.

When a paper mill in Milwaukee flushes their toxic byproducts into Lake's the federal government that cleans it up. When factories pollute the air, we pay for the asthma inhalers for our kids. When a mining company slices the top off a mountain and floods the surrounding communities with toxic runoff etc. etc.

Ever hear of super fund sites?

OUR tax dollars paying a corporations production expense. They pollute because it’s the cheapest way to produce product and we pay the cost in tax dollars and medical bills. We pick up the cost they should be paying for.

Corporations will NOT improve their processes unless those expenses are appropriately allocated to them...rather than US. They function on profit, not good will. So cap and trade is a marketplace to assign those costs to the polluting corporations and it affords companies time to evolve ..permitting them to exceed their pollution limits for a discouraging price rather than have to change overnight. Who do they bur these extra pollution allowances from?...from those corporations that have rapidly improved their processes and have extra pollution limits to sell (left over) haven’t the limit.

It’s an INSENTIVE system….and without it…US…YOU AND I pay for the pollution. Geez…politics suck when cap and trade is fodder for propaganda.

Currently the corporate business model does not account for the pollution they create...the cleanup costs are paid by you and I in tax dollars. Cap and trade puts the cleanup costs where they belong...on the corporation who does the polluting.

Just go read about it rather than regurgitating half digested political spin.

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:57 PM
reply to post by maybereal11

The picture you are painting is wrong. Pollution s not rampant in the US, from the homeowner to the largest industry. You cannot build a home without an approved septic system (where there is no town sewage). Roads are built with runoff a major consideration. The list goes on.

Here are just a very few fines levied against polluters just last year:

EPA fines Nevada wholesaler for allegedly selling unregistered water cleaning product Thermwell Products Company distributed product to Lowes

EPA fines tobacco company $65K for violations at Kauai facility

EPA Fines Homebuilders $4.3M For Pollution

Bayer to Pay $796,500 in EPA Fines at Plant That Exploded

Cap and Trade is based upon an unproven theory that man-made carbon emissions contribute significantly to global warming. A theory.

And yet Obama wants to levy the largest tax increase in history on an unproven theory. He is doing it for political reasons and to gain power.

Btw, I don't know, or care, whether McCain was for Cap and Trade.

[edit on 23-3-2009 by jsobecky]

posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 07:06 PM
reply to post by maybereal11

Cap and trade puts the cleanup costs where they belong...on the corporation who does the polluting.

Just who do you think will pay these additional taxes? Corporations do not pay taxes - they pass the additional costs down to the consumer in the form of higher costs.

And that is not even taking into account the jobs that will be permanently lost when a company is driven out of business (as Obama has promised to bankrupt the coal companies), or the jobs that are driven out of the country to polluter nations such as Mexico.

posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 03:28 PM
reply to post by jsobecky
jsobecky - check out the other related threads if you haven't done so already.

This whole carbon reduction thing is nothing but a con - the scientific consensus that man is causing global warming through "very recent" industrial activity is a pure scam. The worldwide scientific opinion is that there is no consensus - this was Bushes view over 12 months ago. Suddenly, for whatever reason Bush takes a difference stance. I wonder why?

See the recent article that NASA suggest that global cooling is happening. Unfortunately, the US and British governments have created such massive government borrowing they need to service this debt by radically increasing revenue raising schemes - namely through carbon trading and offset. The problem is that markets need more of product to grow so we have the paradox of having to increase carbon production in order to grow the market - effectively increasing the output of a gas that will naturally offset global cooling - and taxing the general public at the same time.

What a wonderful scam - as this whole carbon reduction lobby has always been!

posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 10:52 AM
I'm sure a thread will be started soon, if it hasn't already, with this, but I wanted to throw it in here since it is relevent to this thread.

Obama Years Ago Helped Fund Carbon Program He Is Now Pushing Through Congress

posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Victoria 1
How about since you are an obama supporter you pay my tax increase instead of me paying for your mortgage?

That's the best suggestion I've heard in a while. In fact, I think it should be a law that if you support tax increases (for the greater good, of course), YOU should be the one who has to pay it and not the ones who oppose it. Lets see how many people would support all of these various taxation proposals if that happened.

[edit on 25-3-2009 by vor78]

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