Public co-ed bathrooms? Huh?

reply to post by TravelerintheDark



Other posters cited unisex bathrooms in Asian countries. Coincidentally, Japan has a very big problem with sexual abuse and rape. There, it used to be considered normal to read porn on the train, but for some reason that has changed. In the US there are already epidemic levels of rape and sex abuse. I'm sure that most people are looking for ways to reduce those problems instead of creating more opportunities. Maybe by allowing American men to read porn on the train, they will become turned off to real sex?

Yes, we do need to be protected from ourselves. Maybe you'd like to think that it doesn't apply to you, but it certainly applies to most other people. Sex is a biological imperative, and humans naturally derive pleasure from it. To maintain a civilized society, sometimes biological impulses must be restrained.

There is no direct correlation between unavailability (ie: aversion to risk) and value. To say that humans tend to act responsibly, yet prefer to engage in risky behavior is a contradiction.

You are wasting your brainpower by not acting on the ideas that you conjure in your mind. Even if you don't act on it, you are still sending out and drawing in psychic energy. When these thoughts linger in the mind, they may actually manifest in unexpected ways. To think that you have all of the answers is vain.

As for crime rates, the rates of sexual assault have continued to increase even as other crime rates have fallen.

You wouldn't need to suppress it, if you simply thought about other things instead.

reply to post by Terapin



Wearing clothes is a learned behavior, as is eating with utensils. Maybe people who with a knife and fork are being outlandishly prudish?
People who zipper up their pants? Outlandishly prudish!
People who enjoy reading? Outlandishly prudish!
Professional athletes? Outlandishly prudish!
Axe murderers? Outlandishly prudish!

Maybe Americans should do everything that the Japanese do! Maybe Americans should convert to Shinto and speak English with funny accents! Maybe Americans should publish books about how to abuse women on the train!

That is an exaggeration. Modesty is not just about taking off your underwear.

My insecurities ... or your insecurities with people who wish to have seperate bathrooms, or your insecurities with other people's "modesty," or simply your insecurities with personal boundaries?

I have no problem with urinating next to another man, because I don't think about sex in the men's room.

If you like European customs so much, then why are you still complaining?

Assuming that people who use unisex bathrooms are not "insecure" about their bodies, is absolutely false. Being pressured to do something through society, culture, or whatever doesn't always make someone confident. That's just a social mask.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by Terapin

 

Wearing clothes is a learned behavior, as is eating with utensils. Maybe people who with a knife and fork are being outlandishly prudish?
People who zipper up their pants? Outlandishly prudish!
People who enjoy reading? Outlandishly prudish!
Professional athletes? Outlandishly prudish!
Axe murderers? Outlandishly prudish!

Err.... ranting like that is unbecoming, and only hurts your position. It is like you are foaming at the mouth and spouting what ever comes to mind, while jumping up and down and shouting. Particularly with all those exclamation points. It doesn't even make sense. Do you even understand the meaning of Prudish? >One who is excessively concerned with appearing to be proper, modest, or righteous< Wearing clothing is functional, as using eating utensils, and zipping up. Reading is either educational or entertainment, sometimes both. Athletics is about fitness and entertainment. Axe murder is sociopathic behavior. All of these activities have little to do with being a prude.

In some places a thong bikini is fine, while in others you would need a heavy parka. In some societies women go topless as it is the norm there. In other cultures men wear only decorations and not what we would consider clothing. Neither causes any commotion.

I simply stated that if you grew up in a society where unisex bathrooms were the norm, and you were raised not to react with shame towards your own body, then there would be no problem here. American society teaches that the body is dirty, sex is naughty, and being human is shameful. I blame religion in a large part for this. That doesn't make it right. It just makes it a backwards cultural phenomenon. No big deal, just a fact. Humans have been around for many thousands of years and the modesty we see in some societies is a modern invention. I have been to many countries where shared bathrooms are not something special, and have never encountered anyone who had difficulties with it. Shared bathrooms also don't make someone a pervert as some seem to suggest.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Other posters cited unisex bathrooms in Asian countries. Coincidentally, Japan has a very big problem with sexual abuse and rape.

This is from a list of worldwide rape statistics.

#53 Turkey: 0.0180876 per 1,000 people
#54 Japan: 0.017737 per 1,000 people
#55 Hong Kong: 0.0150746 per 1,000 people

Compared to the United States...

#8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people
#9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people
#10 Iceland: 0.246009 per 1,000 people

www.nationmaster.com...

If you'd like to know what the #1 country is without looking, it's South Africa.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You are wasting your brainpower by not acting on the ideas that you conjure in your mind.

The great thing about brainpower is they have yet to find it's limitations in terms of how much we get. In fact, it seems to last a lifetime, and be virtually limitless during that lifetime, barring physical interruptions. There is no such thing as 'wasted' brainpower. To suggest such implies 'thought control'. Not good, not healthy and simply not right.

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by nixie_nox

Originally posted by eNumbra
reply to post by mystiq

 

A can of mace, a gun or a good kick to the jewels will deter a rapist.
[edit on 3/15/2009 by eNumbra]

Gonna have to disagree with you there. If that is all it took, there would be a lot less reported rapes.

At the risk of sounding incredibly callous, if the rapist doesn't leave with bleeding wounds and a gouged out eye, they didn't fight back hard enough.

Yes, some will simply freeze, playing dead is a popular defense in the animal kingdom. Unfortunately it will not work on rapists.

This is often a misconception that if a female can fight hard enough, she can get away.

I think you would be surprised at how easily a female can be overpowered. If the male has any martial arts training at all, just forget it.

Yes, when I was younger I wrestled a few guys and gave them a run for their money. But there are also a few guys who had me complelely pinned and immobile in about three seconds. It was sobering.

Most likely an attacker has done it before and is experienced. Where a female being attacked is not.

I have taken a little bit of martial arts and I still wouldn't be confident I could fight anybody off.

Some people seriously amaze me, The dudes in here especially who support this are some of those people, I mean seriously, You're not taking some moral high ground or making some righteous stance here so get off your high horses, you're arguing that men and women should share the same public restroom...

First I don't care how much a dude denies it, dudes are all pervs to some degree, be it just talking to our guy friends or those who are just pure scumbags and have no respect for women period...

Unless your a homosexual, I'd be willing to bet at least 50% of the dudes who happened to follow a hot girl in the restroom would probably not pass up the chance to peek if it presented itself...

Women aren't stupid so I'm sure they realize this...

Not only that, I personally have enough trouble walking up to a stall beside some abomination of humanity who smells like ass, and looks even worse standing there grunting and trying to take a pee...

Guys are gross, they pee on the seats, the floor, etc...

And to those who pull the whole "well the stalls are private" yeah there private alright, I'm hard pressed to find a public restroom stall that doesn't have a 1/2" gap between each panel allowing anyone to see in if they want...
Heck most of them the locks don't even work...

Women are a different creature, they have personal needs that need not enter a male restroom and vice versa, let them have their privacy.


If you have a penis you go to the male restroom, If you have a vagina you go to the female rest room, I don't care what clothing you wear or how long or short your hair is.


This law just opens up the door for pervs, if passed any dude can dress up like a chick, go in there get his jollies off and if anyone questions his sexuality he'll just sue....

It also opens up the door for rape, and all I know is this if this crap happened in my state and I was out with my girlfriend id stand at the door and block any dudes from entering that room until she left.

I'm a dude so I think I'm qualified to say I have a pretty good idea how guys are, Ladies, unless you have known them all you're life and know they are good honest men, then the scumbag rule applies to a dude by default

And any respectable man also knows this and would not allow his wife, girlfriend, family member or female friend to be subjected to this crap.

Most men aren't rapists so I dont want that to be the impression, And I'm not saying you cant trust some random dude to do the right thing, But some aspects of our lives are personal and for women this is not only a personal but a vulnerable one, And this is an area where chances need not be taken.





[edit on 16-3-2009 by C0le]

reply to post by C0le


You're not reading this bill in the way it is intended. It is not written to let John C. Everyman follow a woman into a bathroom. It is designed to provide protection for transsexual/transgender people who are in the process of transitioning to the other sex. These are not people who just get off on wearing women's clothes, these are people who identify themselves as the opposite gender. Look up Gender Dysphoria or Gender Identity Disorder. The people this bill aims to protect are the ones suffering from these conditions. They are people who, to put it simply, were born in the wrong body. They may outwardly look like one sex, but mentally and emotionally they are not that sex. Some go their whole lives suppressing these feelings. Others, the ones this bill tries to help, seek to make their physical bodies match their mental/emotional being as much as they can through the use of hormones and surgery. There is a time during their transition where these people don't really fit well into either gender and, often times, are victims of harsh discrimination.

This bill is not to let men walk into and use a women's restroom, it is a bill to let women born in the wrong body who are trying to correct that to use the bathroom of the gender that they truly are.

Originally posted by BriggsBU
reply to post by C0le

 

You're not reading this bill in the way it is intended. It is not written to let John C. Everyman follow a woman into a bathroom. It is designed to provide protection for transsexual/transgender people who are in the process of transitioning to the other sex. These are not people who just get off on wearing women's clothes, these are people who identify themselves as the opposite gender. Look up Gender Dysphoria or Gender Identity Disorder. The people this bill aims to protect are the ones suffering from these conditions. They are people who, to put it simply, were born in the wrong body. They may outwardly look like one sex, but mentally and emotionally they are not that sex. Some go their whole lives suppressing these feelings. Others, the ones this bill tries to help, seek to make their physical bodies match their mental/emotional being as much as they can through the use of hormones and surgery. There is a time during their transition where these people don't really fit well into either gender and, often times, are victims of harsh discrimination.

This bill is not to let men walk into and use a women's restroom, it is a bill to let women born in the wrong body who are trying to correct that to use the bathroom of the gender that they truly are.

How about when this law pass's those of us who want to get real rich real fast, go dress like women, and then when you or some cop attempts to check if I have or am in the process of removing my penis, then I'll sue that dept and the state?????

So how do you KNOW who is in the process and who isn't? Is the state going to start checking for a penis?

Also how do you KNOW rather or not the person is not some perv PRETENDING to be in the process???


How about those going through the above mentioned gender issues "pretend" they are in the opposite sex's restroom and we not take the chance of chicks with dicks in the ladies room?





[edit on 16-3-2009 by C0le]

Originally posted by C0le
This law just opens up the door for pervs, if passed any dude can dress up like a chick, go in there get his jollies off and if anyone questions his sexuality he'll just sue....

You don't believe this can and does happen now? Aside from suing when they get caught, that may or may not happen. What I would be willing to stake a lot on is that the so-called pervs already do dress up like women to sneak into the women's restroom to get their jollies.

Originally posted by C0le
It also opens up the door for rape

The door for rape opens in the mind, not at the entrance of a public restroom.

Originally posted by C0le
Most men aren't rapists so I dont want that to be the impression, And I'm not saying you cant trust some random dude to do the right thing, But some aspects of our lives are personal and for women this is not only a personal but a vulnerable one, And this is an area where chances need not be taken.

Welcome to society. We are, near all of us, vulnerable at some point or another. At the mercy of strangers. Otherwise no one's home would need protection of any sort. In fact most of us are in less danger in public than in our own homes. It's when we're alone that we're most vulnerable.

And let me address the privacy issue this way: We are talking about public restrooms. They are not private, they are simply gender-specific. There's a difference.

People left and right are going to be arrested, charged, convicted and end up living with criminal histories as sexual offenders. This kind of bill is a set up for the "you know who" to set people up as flashers, etc..

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by TravelerintheDark

 

You must be a male.

And you must not of ever had a stalker.

Trust me, there are a lot of creeps out there.

Men don't care however. When I worked for the park service I had the lovely job of painting the restroom. The men's side was quite entertaining. Took me quite a while too leaving all the time.

But when I was on a step ladder, it was amazing how many guys came in with pants half down already, looked at me and said, don't bother and used the urinal. I was trapped. LOL

But it not just about "privates" women do have monthlies and we would like to keep that fact to ourselves.

Well, you can choose not to look at the men doing their business. It doesnt mean they are creeps though. After all, they didnt do anything to you.

Originally posted by mystiq
This could make rapes more prevalent in public washrooms however! This is not a good bill to introduce and will increase crime rates.

I don't think it will increase rapes mystiq. Rapists do not usually care about where they can or can't go legally in order to get what they want.

I recall an almost exact same law going through the California legislature...no idea if it passed...I'm sure I would have used it as a free pass the enter the ladies room

This is political correctness gone ABSOLUTELY mad. Separate bathrooms for males and females comes down to biological differences, not sexual preference. If you are male, use the Gents, female use the Ladies. In between or not sure? Maybe outside if you cannot tell what your gender is...

I'll tell you a bill I would like to see: each bathroom is subdivided further. Section A is for urination, spitting and blowing your nose. Section B is for vomiting and defecating. I find it really unfair that one should have to suffer with the foul smell and nasty stains if they just want to urinate and clear some phlegm.

Originally posted by kj6754

Originally posted by mystiq
This could make rapes more prevalent in public washrooms however! This is not a good bill to introduce and will increase crime rates.

I don't think it will increase rapes mystiq. Rapists do not usually care about where they can or can't go legally in order to get what they want.

Not all potential rapists are psychopathic serial killers.

There is no profile for a sex offender. Thus, anybody is liable to commit a sexual offense, whether or not it would be forceable rape by gunpoint.

I recall visiting a castle in Germany about ten years ago. There was only one restroom in the whole place. We found it and it was quite busy. It had a unisex sign on the door.With a husband and two small kids who had to go, we went in with no question. I thought it would be full of stalls, since it was unisex, but it wasn't. I found that out when my kids and I left the stall and went to wash our hands. In the mirror above the sink, I could see a man behind me using a urinal and looking over his shoulder at us. Very weird!

There was row of stalls and beyond that a row of urinals. Why they put the urinals across from the sinks and mirrors is beyond me.

That was the only unisex restroom I've ever seen. I didn't care for it.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by virraszto]

It wouldn't bother me to use coed bathrooms. In fact, I'd prefer them to gender segregated ones.
In some countries coed bathrooms are considered the norm, and to have gender segregated ones would be unnecessarily sexist. I don't know which countries.
There shouldn't be forced segregation, and there shouldn't be forced integration. I'd say have 3 bathrooms - men's, women's and coed. That way individuals can decide for themselves which they want to use. The coed ones can also include all that e.g. the men's have.
That coed wouldn't work out at some places though. Perhaps can e.g. be like some places here where Security Guards could hang around nearby.
Someone was once saying it would be too costly. But, over here there have been women moaning (Many women like to moan.) about inadequate bathroom facilities for them. So, there're been 3 bathrooms - men's and 2 women's.