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Public co-ed bathrooms? Huh?

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posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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New Hampshire's state motto is "Live Free or Die", but this is going a little far, imo.

NH bill HB 0415 is known locally as 'The Bathroom Bill'. According to John Sununu, former US Senator from NH,

"This week a house judiciary subcommittee voted along party lines to advance the Bathroom Bill to the full committee. The legislation, which makes changes to existing laws, grants universal access to public restrooms based on individual’s preferred “gender-related identity, appearance, expression, or behavior of an individual.” This would allow an individual to legally choose if they would like to use a men’s restroom or women’s restroom based purely on their own personal preferred gender - regardless of their actual biological gender."

Reading the text of the bill, it appears he is stating the truth:

www.gencourt.state.nh.us...


13 State Commission for Human Rights; Unlawful Discriminatory Practices in Public Accommodations. Amend RSA 354-A:17 to read as follows:

354-A:17 Unlawful Discriminatory Practices in Public Accommodations. It shall be an unlawful discriminatory practice for any person, being the owner, lessee, proprietor, manager, superintendent, agent or employee of any place of public accommodation, because of the age, sex, gender identity or expression, race, creed, color, marital status, physical or mental disability or national origin of any person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from or deny to such person any of the accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges thereof; or, directly or indirectly, to publish, circulate, issue, display, post or mail any written or printed communication, notice or advertisement to the effect that any of the accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of any such place shall be refused, withheld from or denied to any person on account of age, sex, gender identity or expression, race, creed, color, marital status, physical or mental disability or national origin; or that the patronage or custom thereat of any person belonging to or purporting to be of any particular age, sex, gender identity or expression, race, creed, color, marital status, physical or mental disability or national origin is unwelcome, objectionable or acceptable, desired or solicited. In addition, no person shall be denied the benefit of the rights afforded by this section on account of that person’s sexual orientation.



Public co-ed bathrooms? I think that some countries have them, but would you feel comfortable using one?

[edit on 14-3-2009 by jsobecky]




posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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Jso,
I don't think they are trying to imply that people can share bathrooms. I think they are implying that if you are a transsexual or a transgender, you have a right to use the corresponding bathroom of your chosen gender. This isn't a free pass for men to go into women's bathrooms and spy on them while they are peeing.

But this might make it a little easier for politicians to have their way with prostitutes of either sex.


[edit on 3/14/2009 by pjslug]



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by pjslug
 


Well, they use the words 'gender identity or expression' which I interpret to mean regardless of biological identity. A person does not need to be transgender or transsexual.

And 'any place of public accommodation' of course includes public restrooms and dressing rooms, such as at the beach.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:47 PM
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This could make rapes more prevalent in public washrooms however! This is not a good bill to introduce and will increase crime rates.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:50 PM
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And really why shouldn't it be so? Don't women's restrooms have stalls? Nothing to see. And I couldn't care less if a woman walks in while I'm at a urinal. I don't think I'll be in her way and I tend to stand close enough so that no one is seeing anything I'm not showing them.

Maybe it's about time to get over the idea that our 'privates' are of interest to anyone but ourselves and our significant others. Or, conversely, that anyone elses 'privates' are of interest to us except our own or our significant others.


+1 more 
posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by mystiq
This could make rapes more prevalent in public washrooms however! This is not a good bill to introduce and will increase crime rates.


Do you genuinely believe that rape is prevented by men not being able to use the womens restroom? Somehow I doubt rapists are that concerned with such a trivial law considering they are intent on breaking a much more serious one.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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Women do not necessarily feel safe around many men, and they should not have them in the bathrooms, when a women may be alone and in a vulnerable position. This is inviting violence against women, something women who have experienced, would never feel comfortable with the idea that a man could walk in when she alone. I know what I'm talking about and this bill has to be terminated. In fact, I immediatley suspect that the people behind this are actually hoping to increase violence agaisnt women, because surely they couldn't be missing so many spark plugs.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:58 PM
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doesn't bother me. Never actually see anyone naked in a restroom anyway.

More rapes? I doubt it. Only deserted restrooms would be locations used by rapists, and if it's deserted I doubt it'd matter whether the law says he can enter the bathroom or not, he's not letting morality stand in his way, why let bathroom rules stop him?



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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In a public restaurant, with a couple of females in the can, one man can walk in and commit quite a few crimes, and exit. Women are not as strong as men, are easily overcome and often just freeze, especially if he has a weapon. I would personally evict any man from the can loudly as to draw attention to the situation if this bill passed and I was one of the patrons in this area. I would rather draw a scene with a bullhorn than risk assault and rape or violence. I have experienced violence and personally am very careful of the male company around me.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by mystiq
 


Dunno, Attempted rapes perhaps.

But if I were a woman and a man were to walk into the "women's"(quotes assume this is a Women & TG) restroom I'd be MORE on guard if it weren't immediately apparent that the man was a transgendered person. A can of mace, a gun or a good kick to the jewels will deter a rapist. A determined rapist isn't going to bother being "allowed" anywhere, their best place for an attack is somewhere the victim feels comfortable and has let their guard down. A women's restroom where there is an expectation of privacy is a more likely place for an attack than a Co-ed restroom would be.

Especially since a co-ed restroom could have another man walk in, and any man who considers himself a man would show the rapists what its like to fight someone who is closer to even unarmed footing.

I understand your concern, but it could easily go either way at least.

Side note however, where and when were TG's being persecuted for their choice of restroom? While I wouldn't be incredibly comfortable peeing next to someone in mid-transition, I can't fault them for being in the restroom they "belong" in, whether it be mentally or physically.


[edit on 3/15/2009 by eNumbra]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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Many women do not feel safe in the presence of men. Bathrooms are small unprotected places, and no woman should have to be forced to feel that she should hold of using a bathroom or put herself at further risk from a stranger.
People who don't understand, either have never been in a situation or are the wrong gender to feel this way. Many women know what I'm talking about.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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There is ONE, and only one way I would agree with this bill...

All transgendered men who wish to legally be able to use a womens restroom should be required to undergo the "final procedure" to make them a woman. If you have a penis, you need to be going in the mens room. If you dont, then go in the womens. This also goes double - if you're a female and end up having a penis surgically attached, then yes you should be able to pee standing up into a mens urinal.

No exceptions. Anything other then this is asking for violent sexual criminals to abuse the new law without regard. I really hope this does not pass, or has some seriously limiting clauses within it.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by mystiq
People who don't understand, either have never been in a situation or are the wrong gender to feel this way.


I was going to refrain from commenting further simply because it isn't going to be possible for me to change your mind about whether or not you feel safe. And I wouldn't want to try. But this comment is simply insensitive.

The wrong gender? Let me assure you there is no 'wrong gender' for violence having been a victim at the hand of both men and women. And, yes, I know what it's like to feel I have to look over my should walking down the street.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by TravelerintheDark]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:14 AM
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So you are worried that a non-transgendered male will decide to use the womens restroom on a whim? So how about this. We build a third restroom for the confused... Big giant ? on the door. That will stop the violence and rape. For sure.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:17 AM
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Statistically speaking more women are harmed, raped and murdered by men than the other way. So to jump on that generalization is alarming to me, when I'm expressing, that if faced between the choice of wetting my pants or using a bathroom where a strange man could barge in, I would wet my pants, as I have experienced violence.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by mystiq]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by mystiq
Bathrooms are small unprotected places, and no woman should have to be forced to feel that she should hold of using a bathroom or put herself at further risk from a stranger.

Not sure, if (by the wording) or how you could possibly feel safer simply because the caricature on the door has a dress instead of pants.

I won't argue because it's clear your opinion on this won't be changed, but I will say, and I'm sure you know, I just want to put it out there for those who may not...

There are no "safe" places, only "safer" places.


Originally posted by mystiq
Statistically speaking more women are harmed, raped and murdered by men than the other way.

According to statistics 60% of rapes aren't even reported, so who's to say those aren't men abused by women who are too ashamed to come forward?

[edit on 3/15/2009 by eNumbra]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by mystiq
Statistically speaking more women are harmed, raped and murdered by men than the other way. So to jump on that generalization is alarming to me, when I'm expressing, as a victim of violence and rape, that this is not possible, as I would personally, and many other women, have to not use a bathroom.


And so because I fall into a lower statistical grouping your generalization isn't supposed to be alarming to me? Besides, you didn't make a generalization, you stated an absolute. That men are the 'wrong gender' to understand what it's like to be the victims of violence.

My apologies for going off-topic.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by TravelerintheDark]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:24 AM
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I certainly like the third restroom idea and though it's not very practical to add one in existing buildings I have seen places that do have third co-ed restrooms usually called family restrooms for changing diapers or for the handicapped most of which have locks on the doors so they are only used for one party at a time - thus no need to worry about somebody overpowering you etc.

Thus if they are going to make restrooms co-ed than all they really need to do is do away with multiparty restrooms and make each one a locking individual unit. All it means is more expense and more privacy for everyone, so besides the added expense - I don't know what anybody's complaining about.

In another direction.

One time I accidentally went into the woman's restroom and I'm a big noticeable man so there's no chance of being unnoticed and sneaking out.

It was at a casual pizza/beer type restaurant and I walked in and didn't notice right way that there were not any urinals as I was looking for a stall anyway. So, I sat down on the stall and suddenly I sobered up and realized that it smells a little too flowery and there's flowery wall paper. I started to get up but then a group of female softball players entered the restroom and a couple stood in front of the mirrors while others used the other stalls. I was so damn scared I think I quit breathing for awhile as I sat there hoping I wouldn't be stuck there for a half hour on nothing. I tell you it was sheer terror sitting there waiting thinking okay do I just say excuse me I made a mistake or do I just hope they leave and I can escape? As I would wait for them to leave more would come in and take their place. Finally I caught a break and the bathroom cleared long enough for me to get out unnoticed. I was more worried that if I was caught in there they'd think I was up to no good - it was really an uncomfortable situation.





[edit on 15-3-2009 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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He's right. There are no safe places and until you realize that, there is no reason not to use the bathroom, any bathroom, small or large, remote or urban, clean or not.
If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, it doesn't really matter. Then it depends on your ability to fight and what weapon they have. That can happen in an unisex mall parking lot.... In broad daylight.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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This is an idea that is not going to happen. Its fine just the way it is, thank you very much. If this politician was around my neck of the woods he'd be having some very strong action and protests. As a politician, he is very much aware of statistics and is well informed, so what he is doing, is deliberately trying to increase violence against women.

By the way, most women don't report violence or sexual assaults either, only the tip of the iceberg gets reported.




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