A View From Fallujah

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Sorry, but you of all people have no legitimacy in criticizing my sources. Nice try, though.

Actually I do.

I would not be able to accept your evidence as you are so clearly against this war that you would taint the information for yourself.

Is it too much to ask for objective proof that this is happening over there? Why aren't hundreds of troops sending letters home to their parents that talk of their shame? Why isn't Congress calling for investigations? Why don't we have secret pictures that are "smuggled" out of Iraq that prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt?

Why, because there is none.

You are the most ill-informed person I have ever communicated with. It's pathetic. Quit wasting our time with your inane comments. If God himself thumped you on head and told you Bush is a liar - you'd swear HE was a liar.

I will say this until you vanish - PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, COWBOY. GO REQUEST IRAQ DUTY SINCE YOUR SO BIG AND BAD AND BEHIND THE INVASION. UNTIL THEN, YOU HAVE ZERO CREDIBILITY. YOU'RE JUST A GUTLESS ARMCHAIR WARRIOR. BRAVO.

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

What's more sick?

The possibility that we killed those children (they could have just as likely been the result of enemy artillery and other enemy action), or the fact that in these countries, the children are taught to hate America, western ideals, and prepared to destroy both when they reach their combat age of 14.

DC

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by DeltaChaos]

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
What's more sick?

The possibility that we killed those children (they could have just as likely been the result of enemy artillery and other enemy action), or the fact that in these countries, the children are taught to hate America, western ideals, and prepared to destroy both when they reach their combat age of 14.

DC

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by DeltaChaos]

DeltaChaos, our kids are not taught to hate the ragheads? Come on, think about that for a minute. This whole war is fueled by racism. It's disgusting.

They don't hate us b/c of our freedoms or whatever monkeyboy in the WH says. They hate us b/c of the sheer terror and destruction we have wrought upon them - in conjunction with Saddam - over the past decade. And because we are now nothing short of a brutal occupying force with no conceivable mission. They see us as murderers at this point. If it was your country being occupied and it was your family and friends being randomly killed how would you feel? Like being subserviant? I highly doubt it. You'd be a killin' machine, too. Not attacking you, just imploring you to think about that.

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Here's a view from Fallujah. Things are only going to get worse for all involved. I feel for anyone out there who has loved ones serving in this nightmare.

From: Report from Fallujah -- Destroying a Town in Order to "Save" it

Published on Monday, April 12.
www.empirenotes.org...

Nothing could have been easier than gaining the good-will of the people of Fallujah had the Americans not been so brutal in their dealings. Tribal peoples like these have been the most easily duped by imperialists for centuries now. But now a tipping point has been reached. To Americans, �Fallujah� may still mean four mercenaries killed, with their corpses then mutilated and abused; to Iraqis, �Fallujah� means the savage collective punishment for that attack, in which over 600 Iraqis have been killed, with an estimated 200 women and over 100 children (women do not fight among the muj, so all of these are noncombatants, as are many of the men killed).

A Special Forces colonel in the Vietnam War said of the town, Ben Tre, �We had to destroy the town in order to save it.� That statement encapsulated the Vietnam War. The same is true in Iraq today -- Fallujah cannot be �saved� from its mujaheddin unless it is destroyed.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Here's a view from Fallujah. Things are only going to get worse for all involved. I feel for anyone out there who has loved ones serving in this nightmare.

From: Report from Fallujah -- Destroying a Town in Order to "Save" it

Give me a break, is this guy supposed to be taken as an expert who can determine that it was US weapons that caused all that?

The fact is that, based on the info he provided, you could just as easily claim that it was the insurgents who caused the damge and death.

He wasn't there when the events actually happened, he just happened to be at the hospital when the victimes came in.

[Edited on 23/4/04 by COOL HAND]

They are going to go in this weekend maybe. Its a death trap. They have to go door to door. Thats crazy.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
DeltaChaos, our kids are not taught to hate the ragheads? Come on, think about that for a minute. This whole war is fueled by racism. It's disgusting.

Not from where I'm standing. There is no biggotry of any fashion within my family or circle of friends. Save for vehemently voiced dislike and distrust for Bush and his administration. I imagine there are very few families actively teaching their children to hate 'ragheads' or any other race at this point. There are some, there always will be, but I believe this is hardly the norm. There, I've thought about it for a minute...

DC

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Here's a view from Fallujah. Things are only going to get worse for all involved. I feel for anyone out there who has loved ones serving in this nightmare.

From: Report from Fallujah -- Destroying a Town in Order to "Save" it

Give me a break, is this guy supposed to be taken as an expert who can determine that it was US weapons that caused all that?

And you are an expert on this subject?

You don't have any concept of Mesopotamia or its people or frankly, anything else about this situation. You've demonstrated that time and again.

The fact is that, based on the info he provided, you could just as easily claim that it was the insurgents who caused the damge and death.

If that's what you believe than you can keep on deluding yourself.

[Edited on 23/4/04 by COOL HAND]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
And you are an expert on this subject?

You don't have any concept of Mesopotamia or its people or frankly, anything else about this situation. You've demonstrated that time and again.

Well I would not consider myself one, but I have spent over five years working with those types of weapons.
What makes you think that I have no concept of Mesopotamia? Honestly, where do you come up with this stuff? Did your parents not show you enough attention when you were just a little punk?





The fact is that, based on the info he provided, you could just as easily claim that it was the insurgents who caused the damge and death.

If that's what you believe than you can keep on deluding yourself.

Till I see the evidence with my own eyes, or another person who has experience with those types of weapons I won't be able to take it a face value. How can you? How naive are you anyway?



[Edited on 25/4/04 by COOL HAND]

Really Cool Hand - or whatever your name is, you're too much. I can't even take your comments seriously. Getting a little pissy, there. Actually my father died when I was 5. My mother did an awesome job of raising my brother and I, thank you very much.

You might as well give up on your mission to disrupt my threads. It's not working. And it will never work.

Btw, are you ever gonna put your money where your mouth is and go volunteer for Iraq duty? Or do you simply prefer sending other people to do the fighting for you?

Here are a few more articles concerning the current US meltdown and Fallujah.

Extremism in the defence of liberty
Paul Robinson says that some well-respected hawks are threatening civilisation by advocating terror tactics in the war on terror

Thus, in a rabid, but sadly not untypical, response to the murder of four Americans in Fallujah, the journalist Joseph Farah urged us �to make an example� out of the Iraqi city. �We may need to flatten Fallujah,� he wrote. �We may need to destroy it. We may need to grind it, pulverise it and salt the soil. ... Here�s an opportunity to show that it doesn�t pay to resort to barbarism and terrorism.� (Irony is not Farah�s strong point.)

The American army didn�t go quite as far as Farah suggested � in response to the four murders it has killed a mere 600 people in Fallujah, and that does, I suppose, show restraint of a sort. But it is hardly an advertisement for the discriminate and proportionate use of force. Since today we have the technical means to reduce collateral damage, and since we justify our wars in terms of protecting the innocent, we have a special obligation to take every measure to do so. We will not be fulfilling that obligation if we continue to shed blood on the scale of recent weeks in Iraq. If we cannot govern the Iraqis without killing them, we should leave their country immediately.
www.antiwar.com...


US Starting From Square One in Iraq, One Year Later

by Jim Lobe
April 24, 2004


US efforts to suppress the insurgency in Fallujah were, by all accounts, politically disastrous. With hundreds of Iraqis � including women and children � killed in the fighting, the city quickly became a rallying cry for both Sunnis and Shias but also nationalists and Islamists fed up with the CPA's incompetence and the humiliations of occupation.

"I am convinced now (that the CPA) created a situation where Iraqis are in total psychological revolt," Gailan Ramiz, a U.S.-educated political scientist in Baghdad, told the Christian Science Monitor this week.
www.antiwar.com...


Sunni leader warns of nationwide uprising if Fallujah is hit

Fri Apr 23, 9:25 AM ET Add Mideast - AFP to My Yahoo!



BAGHDAD (AFP) - A Sunni Muslim leader warned that the US-led coalition would face an uprising throughout Iraq (news - web sites) if its forces attack the flashpoint city of Fallujah, which has been besieged by US marines since April 5


"I have an urgent message for US forces. You have overstepped the red line. Make sure you do not strike Fallujah again," Sheikh Ahmad Abdel Ghafur Samarrai said during Friday prayers at a Baghdad mosque.


"We will not allow the shedding of Iraqi blood. If you strike again, the whole of Iraq, from north to south, from east to west, will become Fallujah," the Sunni cleric said.
news.yahoo.com... /afp/20040423/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_us_fallujah_sunni_040423132513


By IAN FISHER and STEVEN R. WEISMAN

Published: April 24, 2004

AGHDAD, Iraq, April 23 � The American authorities increased the pressure on besieged insurgents in the Sunni Muslim stronghold of Falluja on Friday with a series of blunt warnings that if they did not lay down their arms, United States soldiers would attack within days.

A senior Bush administration official in Washington said that although a decision had not been made to attack pending a final round of negotiations, "there isn't much time left." He said the administration felt a sense of urgency because the insurgents had turned over only outdated weapons and because Falluja faced an imminent human crisis, with residents in dire need of food and medicine
www.nytimes.com... nternational/middleeast/24IRAQ.html?ex=1083817466&ei=1&en=be3f9e32e733c14a


Things are definitely not looking good. God help us, for we have opened Pandora's Box.

"PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, COWBOY. GO REQUEST IRAQ DUTY SINCE YOUR SO BIG AND BAD AND BEHIND THE INVASION. "

err... i thought you were opposed to sending troops in?

personally i think ur an idiot.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
"PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, COWBOY. GO REQUEST IRAQ DUTY SINCE YOUR SO BIG AND BAD AND BEHIND THE INVASION. "

err... i thought you were opposed to sending troops in?

When it comes to people who run their mouth and want to nuke the hell out of a city or country b/c they don't share the same worldview as we might, I say GO AHEAD and VOLUNTEER YOURSELF and SHUT THE HELL UP.

personally i think ur an idiot.

Excellent. I take that as a compliment. Can you get your little mind around that, GeniousSage?