Those who are Awake have no obligations to those who are asleep.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

 

I'm sure only of one thing. I was born with the ability to get rid, or simply notice the importance of getting rid of self-pity and self-importance. Without this, you cannot really get anywhere. And with this ability, you can reconstruct all the mistakes you have accumulated from birth, through education process.

But even if we're all determined in this respect from the moment of birth or earlier, we have the ability to go against it and try to help others despite all odds. The only question is whether the others will "have the ear". And even if they don't, there's no harm done.

As person advances on this "path of knowledge" (as Castaneda called it), more opportunities open and the joy is greater and greater.

I have read many statements here on ATS from people who are scared of what is coming, and most of them make vows to get a gun and ammunition and then.... they have reduced their options to only one: Put a cloak of fear on and wait...

It is really sad, because this is a common stereotype, that this society has not prepared them in any better way to respond to difficulties, as if it were intentional...

Well said! At the end of the day the only thing you should truly fear is fear!
Nobody knows everything, everything is relative to something ellse, life is truly a miracle, and should be seen as such, as living beings it is our instinct to try to prolong that life as long as possible, by whatever means. However it is only human beings among all over earthlings that have free will, and thus the key difference from other life forms on this earth, we can choose between our life or death, dependent on our mindset, unfortuntley if we allow it, are mindset can be exploited by those who know how to manipulate it for there own ends, like the motto of ATS states -deny ignorance, and we shall see that we aren't sheeple, dogs, or pigs on the wing, nor brothers in arms, that we are on the whole and for the most part just earthlings living life as best we can given our circumstances.

You can't be awake...

Those who are Truly awake realize that nothing is happening.

Those who are Truly awake realize there are none who sleep and none who are awake.

Those who are Truly awake have lost the idea of a 'who' who can be awake.

Those who are Truly awake know that Awake is all there is... and is not.

Are you really awake?

Very good point.

Major and minor premise, with a conclusion base on someones own views.

For people that do not understand how logic works or have taken courses in college.

Someone can make a statement, then have a conclusion that is invalid.

Example.

Major Premise: Most American cats are domestic house cats.

Minor Premise: Bill is an American cat.

Conclusion: Bill is domestic house cat.

Invalid argument: How do we know Bill is a domestic house cat?

Originally posted by cognoscente
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

Rhetorical syllogism. Don't focus on democracy so much. Your argument only works because you at first validate democracy as if it were intrinsically indefectible, and then you refute your own claim with unsubstantiated logic, saying that it can be undermined in different circumstances, depending on what type of moral character he who votes possesses. Basically, you have to hope that everyone aspires to do good, and everyone understands the limits of their power, for a democracy to operate smoothly. You would be stuck in a system of maximin strategies, where you act in your own perceived best interest where you are living under the worst possible conditions imagined. Such a belief system would quickly lead to the demise of democracy, which is not what we see today.

Of course, most of our confidence is derived from the law, from the knowledge that the law isn't subject to arbitrary fluctuation, at the whim of those who have control. So if you describe democracy as if it were apart from the law then you have missed the point completely.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by cognoscente]

[edit on 28-2-2009 by Realtruth]

reply to post by cognoscente


And when those who are in position to impose laws do it in an arbitrary way, what then? The system itself will react and get rid of them?

It isn't democracy any more. It's dictatorship. And the old label is still there...

So, same as with the awakened and asleep, how do you know what is democracy and what is dictatorship? When everybody has right to say his opinion...

I'm sorry, but the system is just a projection, and it does its work in people's heads as long as they are asleep. And many are asleep in this respect.
And the reality is that those who have usurped the confidence of people are still using this same idea of democracy to manipulate, extort and rob the sheeple.

On the outside everything is fine, the power of illusion...

reply to post by DangerDeath

"Checks and balances"

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by cognoscente

 

So, same as with the awakened and asleep, how do you know what is democracy and what is dictatorship? When everybody has right to say his opinion...

Well I agree with you there. I'm kind of a control freak and when I see a logical inconsistency I'm usually the first to jump at it. I actually have nothing more valuable to add to this discussion, so I think I'll just retreat for the time being and pounce back out when I'm needed.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by cognoscente]

Quality, pure quality throughout. So many here are speaking as if they are in the fifteenth century, look outside we are now infact in the year 2008. Wake up, smell the bacon and stop showing such a clear wish for self vindication.

Many of you are very confused individuals, shown not only by the context of your writings but the grammar which you are using, you should perhaps take up acting as the shakespearing type theme is really extremely entertaining to watch. The only thing of concern is that your not aware or are in denial of your own acting.

As for the OP, for your blatent show of stupidity I cannot wait to laugh in your 'face' should all this fearmongered predictions pass without noteworthy events. I wish you all the best in your life, as I would any human being but you either need to regain the sense of love and unity with friends and family, top yourself or go and visit a shrink.

I love the internet, truely brings out even the most obsurd thoughts and characters.

reply to post by Realtruth


Democracy doesn't have the means to discern right or wrong. It is a fact. It only reacts, it cannot anticipate. A fact, not syllogism.

You elect a saint, and it turns out he was a crook. Read some history. Please.

Major Premise: Most American cats are domestic house cats. Minor Premise: Bill is an American cat. Conclusion: Bill is domestic house cat.

Hmm

Bill is mostly a domestic house cat

reply to post by DangerDeath


It is statistically probable that Bill is a domestic house cat.

But then again, logic is an argumentative tool. If we actually want to know the truth, we could always scrutinize it with more empirical evidence. Like your post above DD, it's true history is almost never continuous with ideology. Hitler undermined the Reichstag through the use of democracy.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by cognoscente]

Ethics is a whole different area, because emotions are involved.

Logic is base only on facts presented and broken down into syllogisms, in fact you do not even need to know anything about the subject. Using logic you can tell if someone is not telling the truth just by their statements and conclusion based on using deductive and inductive reasoning. The formulas work.

And politicians are experts in this field. Word play so to speak.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by Realtruth

 

Democracy doesn't have the means to discern right or wrong. It is a fact. It only reacts, it cannot anticipate. A fact, not syllogism.

You elect a saint, and it turns out he was a crook. Read some history. Please.

reply to post by Realtruth


Experience has nothing to do with logic, but you can experience logic.

And so is true for ethics. Nothing to do with logic.

So, where you look for truth is a wrong place.

Truth is not logical.

I do agree that there is no obligation to try to "wake up" people.

WIth that said, I do see a big difference with the idea of waking people up (whatever thet means) and simply helping people who are less fortunate then yourself. Prehaps I am not understanding the OP, but it seems as if the poster feels people who are not "awake" are worthless in society and should be forgotten.

it comes across as extremely snobish and elitist and like one poster said an ego trip.


Even with his fancy Yale education I need to remind this poster that at one point he was not awake. Someone or something opened his eyes.

Many people who think they "get it" forget that at one point they did not.

You can not base your argument on something that does not exist in the argument, this is how politicians work the system.


Here is another.

Major Premise: All men are short

Minor Premise: All men have brown hair

Conclusion: All short men have brown hair

Now we all know this is not true, but the argument looks damn good.

Originally posted by cognoscente
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

It is statistically probable that Bill is a domestic house cat.

But then again, logic is an argumentative tool. If we actually want to know the truth, we could always scrutinize it with more empirical evidence. Like your post above DD, it's true history is almost never continuous with ideology. Hitler undermined the Reichstag through the use of democracy.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by cognoscente]

reply to post by drock905


Can't you read?
An old and trustworthy man opened his eyes!
Brainwashed him, misusing his confidence!

And now he must abide in denial without any hope...

Originally posted by Realtruth
You can not base your argument on something that does not exist in the argument, this is how politicians work the system.


Here is another.

Major Premise: All men are short

Minor Premise: All men have brown hair

Conclusion: All short men have brown hair

Now we all know this is not true, but the argument looks damn good.

Originally posted by cognoscente
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

It is statistically probable that Bill is a domestic house cat.

But then again, logic is an argumentative tool. If we actually want to know the truth, we could always scrutinize it with more empirical evidence. Like your post above DD, it's true history is almost never continuous with ideology. Hitler undermined the Reichstag through the use of democracy.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by cognoscente]

Realtruth, when you KNOW something, you don't need proofs. It is easy to use sophism against those who haven't experienced how it works.

What appears to be truth is not necessarily truth. We both know this.
So a politician can use all his "logical weapons", neither of us will fall for it.
Then he will resort to harder means.
Now, wouldn't it be wise of us to anticipate that and find solution in advance?
Or shall we rely on the "system of laws" knowing that politicians have full control of it and can manipulate it at will. Where goes our confidence in democracy? We simply don't count on it anymore. We KNOW better than that.

reply to post by DangerDeath


You mean like when serial killers know that god tells them to kill some people and eat their brains. They understand that logic to... they dont question it, they dont need proof.

reply to post by Wertdagf



No, that's not what I mean.
Hearing voices in your head isn't logical, is it?
And there's no proof it is God talking either.
So what is it?
A delusion, affection, result of ignorance.

humanely? after how many billions are killed or allowed to die? hmmm?

those of us who are left indeed. well rot with your masters. me? not going to.

reply to post by DangerDeath


Is reincarnation logical? is freewill logical?

So how far of a stretch is hearing god speak to you?

This is the best thread I've seen on ATS in a very long time..

How to not be a sheeple:
1) Learn critical thinking skills.
2) Do not let your emotions trammel your newly acquired anti-sheeple critical thinking skills

To the OP: You're ignoring the good in people, and if you believed a single word you were saying, you wouldn't have to put it on ATS. You're just as sympathetic to dumbed down people as the rest of us are, but you need an excuse to be apathetic to their plight.

Also, poor does not equal ignorant, dumbed down, "sleeping," or "sheeple." Poor means not having wealth -- it can happen to anyone.

Deny ignorance