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Facing Foreclosure from the banks? Tell them to PRODUCE THE NOTE!!

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posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 10:38 PM
To bad in Kansas they put a copy of the note in the summons for petition of foreclosure. Don't really see how its a petition when theirs only two party's involved.

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 11:53 PM
I think you can even take this a step further and have people ask the question now to save money and just stop mortgage payments all together. People not about to be foreclosed on will most likely will stall their payments if not never have to pay again.

posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 12:29 AM
This is only possible in states that use judicial forclosures. If you live in CA won't work. Your best bet is to use a lawyer driven modification.

posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 01:10 AM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 01:25 AM
Sorry to bust your bubble guys, but this thread is seriously mis-guided by bad information. I work in the Mortgage field, and simply put, this is how it works:

1: The Bank/Mortgage Company owns the property. When they sell it/buy it from another Bank/Mortgage company, they do not physically meet and take ownership of the House, they are purchasing the Deed to the property, and the Note owed on the property. Just like when you go to the store and purchase a Coke, you hand them your money, and in return you recieve a physical object, the Coke. Same principal here, at the conclusion of the Bank/Mtg company transaction, the physical, original copy of the Deed and the Note are exchanged. I have been involved in this for many years, and I promise you this, in the master folder each property has assigned to it, the original Deed to the property, and the active Note to the property, are in this master folder.

2: You are purchasing said property from the Bank/Mtg company. If you tried this, first, it would take them 10-14 days TOPS to produce the note where you owed the money. Even if, in the extremely highly unlikely scenario that the Note showing what you owed were to disappear, the Bank still owns the Deed to the property, so you are still going to be removed from the house.

3: Furthermore, even if the original Deed to the property were lost, the Bank/Mtg company can prove ownership of the property through IRS records, tax assessor records, etc, etc. Which if it got this far, you would then be facing serious charges of attempting to defraud a financial institution and the IRS, which trust me, you do not want to do.

If you owe the money on the property, and you cannot make the payments, take the correct steps: Do not make any more payments, save up every single penny you possibly can, and continue to live in the house, up until the Eviction notice is served if you must, until the contractors show up to change the locks on the front door. You are then required to leave the house. Hopefully, you have saved enough money by then to get a fresh start. This is not an elaborate plan, this is truthful information from someone who is really on the inside of this business, and I hope it is helpful to everyone who is unfortunate enough to have to go through this.

posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 09:25 AM

posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 02:35 PM
Note or no Note isn't the real issue mob mentality? So many people are "getting screwed" that there is a mob mentality for the rationalization of poor choices. This is obviously an awful situation. I wonder if most people took responsibility for their situations in the 30's or looked at how to get out of it by screwing someone else. Maybe criminals should start holding China accountable for shootings. They invented gun powder right?
Nobody asked questions when they were accepting these loans. They probably enjoyed telling everyone that would listen how much their house was worth compared to the previous year. We all loved hearing that and wondering how they could afford such a house. I feel sorry for all of the collateral damage this has caused. People who have lost jobs or been otherwise effected due to their "neighbors" actions. Bottom line: If you borrowed money that you had no way to or no intention of paying back you are a scumbag. Thank you for living so high on the hog while others cleaned up the pen. Now we are all going to be a lot more crowed down in the slop. Be a warrior and accept your actions and take responsibility for them! Have people always been this bad or is the increasing interconnectedness of human systems making us seem that way due to larger and more distributed impacts?

posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 07:26 PM
There is an important aspect of any loan obligation and it's a legal term called 'consideration'. I.e., "for consideration received, I, Joe Homebuyer, promise to pay, etc". Consideration means one party (in this case the bank) contributes something of tangible value (typically money) to the deal (AKA Credit Agreement). In exchange for this money, which they loan at some risk to themselves, you agree to pay x amount @ y % for so many payments.

Only thing is, they don't actually "loan" you anything at all. Thanks to the magic of the fractional reserve system, the money does not exist until the moment you sign (and they accept) a credit agreement. They take your application and deposit it into a Demand Deposit Account (DDA) in your name, and cut a check. So unlike the good ol Bailey Savings and Loan, your money did NOT come from other depositors or any secret 'reserves' at all-- it came from nowhere but the power of your IOU.

In short, the creditor never risked anything at all, because they never provided consideration in exchange for your agreement to pay. That's constructive fraud and breach of contract. Worse, they now hold lien on your property which they can foreclose on whenever they wish-- whether you pay or not.

There are cases where homeowners have been able to prove this perfidy in court and receive not only clear title to their homes, but the ability to sue for damages as well.

So instead of demanding that the bank "produce the note", demand instead that they show proof that they actually provided consideration for the note in the first place-- i.e., show the bookeeping entry which debited some other depositor's account (or msytical reserve account) with which they CREDITED your account. They will refuse, because it's impossible.

THIS is the massive fraud which has destroyed our wealth and standard of living, and has caused far more damage and loss than than anything Bernie Madoff, Alan Stanford, or any of those other scumbags have been able to do.

posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 08:04 PM
reply to post by theQuest

I don’t know what state you’re in, but it doesn’t work that way here in North Carolina. We are a deed of trust state–not mortgage. The lender does not own the property, nor does he ever get the original deed. Deed of trust, yes, but not the deed.

posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 08:13 PM

Originally posted by h5mind

There are cases where homeowners have been able to prove this perfidy in court and receive not only clear title to their homes, but the ability to sue for damages as well.

Can you cite some of those cases? All the ones I've seen that tried that argument lost.

Alcorn and Allen take the position that, when they executed and delivered the home equity note to Long Beach Mortgage Company, the note did not evidence a debt from them to the mortgage company, [*5] but instead "created" money belonging to them that they do not owe to anyone. This is a legally erroneous concept that is apparently based on Alcorn and Allen's misinterpretation of some information they discovered in a publication issued by the Federal Reserve System.

The trial court's denial of Alcorn and Allen's motion for summary judgment was correct for the same reasons that Alcorn and Allen's response to the bank's motion for summary judgment was ineffectual-the allegations supporting their motion did not present material facts, but only conclusory statements and allegations of various erroneous legal theories of recovery.

The bank asks us to assess damages against Alcorn and Allen for filing a frivolous appeal. Although we have the authority to do so under TEX. R. APP. P. 45, we elect not to do so in this case.

For all these reasons, as modified, we affirm the summary judgment.

William J. Cornelius

I don’t know if the case is still available on the net, but it is cited as
2003 Tex. App. LEXIS 5656, *
No. 06-02-00137-CV

2003 Tex. App. LEXIS 5656

Edited to add link to case

[edit on 2/26/2009 by Pauligirl]

posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 03:32 PM
So okay you have a decent job but you cannot afford the house you want to live in because it costs a half million or so and you decide to rent because you are too smart to pay what you can't afford to in cash right? Good for you! Cut backs, lay offs, accident, illness, whatever you are reduced to little or no income and you can no longer pay the $900-$1500 rent for your apartment, oh dear what do you do? All apartments are full so they charge outrageous amounts of money, put stipulations on who can live there. They want a reference from your employer and the last place you rented from. Then they want first and last months rent, in advance. Welcome to tent city you sanctimoniuous people! Oh but it doesn't look good for homeless people to be putting up tents in the local parks! It's offensive to the very wealthy who have more dollars than sense and less compassion. You are told to move on! Gosh they have something in common with a lot of you people who rag on those who hit hard times and can't afford their mortgages because the prices were too inflated but the monthly mortgage was less than the cost of rent or about the same and let us not forget that a lot of these people have probably paid back the amount they originally "borrowed" but the banks keep using that to pay off the interest accumulated and not the capitol. In essence, no matter which way you turn you are so screwed! Welcome to the real world. We have scrimped and saved and paid off our mortgage we have gone without a lot of things to do so but I remember having no where to go but a relatives when we hit hard times renting! I remember being shacked up with relatives that look down their long sanctimonious noses at you and treat your kids like second class citizens. So for those of you who blame the people who got in over their heads it must be nice to live in a charmed world where everything goes your way heads up though, it may not always. For those who can get out of outrageous intrest rates I say do it! You can also try the legal ground that the bank put up only so much capitol and created the rest out of nothing that is what intrest really is. Watch zeitgeist addendium it will open your eyes. And good luck to those of you who are struggling to make ends meet and keep a roof over your heads. It isn't easy at any time.

posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 11:33 PM
reply to post by northof8

I use to agree with people like you...till I got scammed by a predatory lender and a fraudulent mortgage servicing company...too add to things like life's little problems of helth problems. Unless you are filthy rich you too are vunerable to joining the rest of us that are in the toilet.

posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:11 PM
All the rules have changed in the last couple of months. Lending banks are now being held accountable for the trap they set, borrowing money they didn't themselves have, while using loose and illegal practices in the process. The massive lawsuit against Wells Fargo / Wachovia, Indymac / OneWest bank, Citibank, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, GMAC..............can actually, not only put a stop to your foreclosure, but also pause your house payments with no loss to you............

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