Weather Control Admitted and Laws

Originally posted by Phage

Sounds remarkably like what Bush and Cheney pulled to drag us into Iraq. Mis-information.

Now there's a thought. If enough people thought that a foreign power were in the possession of exotic weapons, and that the latest natural disaster was caused by these weapons, you have a groundswell of opinion in support for attacking that foreign power ......

Most people would be unaware how impossible such weapons might be. But they've all seen the (supposed) results of their deployment. And they want action to prevent them being (supposedly) deployed again.

Scary.

Is that a new conspiracy we've uncovered?


Incidently, with regards the reality of large scale weather manipulation - such activities would affect the whole planet (create a high pressure cell over Texas and you affect the weather in Greece) and it seems unlikely if they were really happening that no-one in all the hundreds of professional meteorological organisations all around the world, or indeed tens of thousands of amateurs with access to detailed weather and climate data, has noticed. And even more unlikely that the British, French, Americans, Indians, Chinese, Peruvians, Iranians, Russians, Mexicans, South Africans, Japanese etc are all in on the plot together.

Whether the likes of HAARP may inadvertently affect medium or long term synoptics is another matter.

Originally posted by Phage
The question he was responding to:
He is saying that rumor or the threat of this sort of thing can be damaging by the disruption it can cause.

Indeed and you believed you had to tell me what i read myself why? Why do you think i referred to the threats of bio and chemical weapon attacks?

In other words, the dis-information of claiming that those things are real can be used against us. It is the threat of enemies using these rumors to create fear which is real, not not things that are rumored.
hmmm. Just which one's are the real dis-informants?

Yes, we are all ( i hope) aware of the fact that our governments desperately wants us afraid enough to concentrate on external 'threats' and issues instead of on our basic economic and legal standing. This is obvious but not what i tried to bold and highlight in the selected excerpt:

Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves."

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

DoD News Briefing
Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen

I hope cutting down the quote will enable you to better focus on what i am trying to highlight. As you can see by the very same quote i highlighted earlier these 'others' are ENGAGING ( not allegedly doing so) in 'terrorism' where they can alter the climate ( not just local patterns) , set of earthquakes and volcanoes remotely trough the use of electromagnetic waves. Secretary of defense Cohen goes on to say that ' it's real' and that they are finding ways ( not 'expected to find them, but finding them) in which they can wreak terror upon other nations.

If you wish to believe that these 'others' lives in caves in Afghanistan your are obviously free to do so but frankly i don't believe rubbish and thus understand that the Pentagon is building new generations of fighter aircraft and naval assets to actually fight the state entities so armed. Sure they understand terrorist aren't dangerous but they also understand that they can't tell the American public that other nations are strategically better prepared for world war three than they are. This is why the US is fighting 'terrorist' while building masses of weapons that are perfectly useless against 'terrorist'. But perhaps this is as obviously out of your depth as you made clear by discussing a part of the article i wasn't referring to?

Oh, I read the whole transcript before I replied the first time.

Which i suppose shouldn't surprise me. If your original intent was to waste my time and divert the conversation to areas i were not attempting to discuss it wouldn't matter how many times you read the transcript.

I think you have misrepresented what is being said in answer to a specific question. Cohen is talking about false reports, false terror threats.

The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search.

But it's not a false threat. We know that US national security is a joke that couldn't even stop it's own commercial airliners from being used as weapons. US national security should be entirely dismantled ( saving perhaps a few hundred billion) and handed to the Canadians ( even their police service will do ) who have shown more resourcefulness, and efficiency, in defending the North American continent than the Pentagon has managed in decades. Riddled with spies as it is and with massive information leaks the mere existence of the alphabet soup of intelligence groups ensures that the Chinese and Russians are having a field day exploiting the inter service rivalry and communications.

The purpose of a terror attack is to create fear and confusion, to cause the enemy to waste resources. Creating the fear of an attack, even if the means of carrying out that attack do not exist, accomplishes that end.

Absolutely but obviously a enemy doesn't disappear ,or his covert actions less effective, because you are afraid of creating panic. You can't , and they have not, prevented the Russians/Chinese from penetrating American networks by not being worried and thus not creating 'artificial' panic; not being afraid is no defense.

Sounds remarkably like what Bush and Cheney pulled to drag us into Iraq. Mis-information.

Only we had very reliable information that disproved the claims about Iraqi WOMD and links to 'terrorism'. We didn't need to invade that country to find out any more than the US needs to invade Russian to discover the truth about the EM weapons that BOTH sides have been using ( the sustained Russian effort started in 1976) for at least a couple of decades. I suggest you look at the other links i gave and then tell me what specifically about electromagnetic weapons you have such a problem with.

Stellar

Originally posted by Essan
Now there's a thought. If enough people thought that a foreign power were in the possession of exotic weapons, and that the latest natural disaster was caused by these weapons, you have a groundswell of opinion in support for attacking that foreign power ......

Or you could just tell them that they have 'WOMD' and links to 'terrorism, why go over the top with 'exotic' weapons when we 'know' every kid ( nation) can make a nuclear bomb in his dads garage without anyone knowing anything about it? Since when have people decided to go to war any ways? When was the last referendum of the American people to ask them about whether they want to be involved in a war? Yeah, right....

Most people would be unaware how impossible such weapons might be.

You right , they believed Iraq could build nuclear weapons on the sly so clearly people will believe ANYTHING. Funny then that their government had to tell them that it was a fact and had to play up game by involving SH in 9-11? You would think WOMD would be enough, right?

People may be relatively easily fooled by what is far funnier is how easily the arrogance of people with degrees\title's can be taken in. Bernie maddoff proved once again that being able to get a few million to invest with him still didn't make the investors smart enough to figure out that they were investing in pyramid scheme. This is why i laugh hardest at the so called 'experts' who really don't have any excuse for being taken in so completely by the propaganda that fools the masses they take such a negative view of; well done on being a elitist.

But they've all seen the (supposed) results of their deployment. And they want action to prevent them being (supposedly) deployed again.
Scary.
Is that a new conspiracy we've uncovered?

The deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan were in my opinion multi faceted ( attempted energy disruptions to create dollar demand; destroying the secular Iraqi 'socialist' experiment) but basically part of encircling Russia in the hopes of giving them more targets than they can deal with when NATO pushes Russia too far.

Incidently, with regards the reality of large scale weather manipulation - such activities would affect the whole planet (create a high pressure cell over Texas and you affect the weather in Greece) and it seems unlikely if they were really happening that no-one in all the hundreds of professional meteorological organisations all around the world, or indeed tens of thousands of amateurs with access to detailed weather and climate data, has noticed.

But why would they suspect scalar weapons? I mean if the presumption is that it's natural you just have to adapt the models presuming that natural is different from what it used to be? Why do you think Global warming is in vogue with the people who used to be able to understand weather patterns? Wouldn't you require a new phenomenon to explain what you can't otherwise explain?

And even more unlikely that the British, French, Americans, Indians, Chinese, Peruvians, Iranians, Russians, Mexicans, South Africans, Japanese etc are all in on the plot together.

Why presume that this is known and understood by most governments thus requiring a massive conspiracy? What would these governments tell their meteorologist or their people in this disclosure?

Something like the following perhaps?

Again, my attitude is, if it's not going exactly right, we're going to make it go exactly right. If there's problems, we're going to address the problems. And that's what I've come down to assure people of. And again, I want to thank everybody.

And I'm not looking forward to this trip. I got a feel for it when I flew over before. It -- for those who have not -- trying to conceive what we're talking about, it's as if the entire Gulf Coast were obliterated by a -- the worst kind of weapon you can imagine. And now we're going to go try to comfort people in that part of the world.

Thank you. (Applause.)

END 10:39 A.M. CDT

www.whitehouse.gov...

NEWS BRIEF: "Malaysia to Battle Smog With Cyclones"
by Chen May Yee,
Staff Reporter of the Wall Street Journal
Thursday, November 13, 1997, page A19.

"KULA LUMPUR -- Malaysia's war on smog is about to get a new twist. The government wants to create man-made cyclones to scrub away the haze that has plagued Malaysia since July. 'We will use special technology to create an artificial cyclone to clean the air', said Datuk Law Hieng Ding, minister for science, technology and the environment. The plan calls for the use of new Russian technology to create cyclones -- the giant storms also known as typhoons and hurricanes -- to cause torrential rains, washing the smoke out of the air. The Malaysian cabinet and the finance minister have approved the plan, Datuk Law said. A Malaysian company, BioCure Sdn. Bhd., will sign a memorandum of understanding soon with a government-owned Russian party to produce the cyclone."

"Datuk Law declined to disclose the size of the cyclone to be generated, or the mechanism. 'The details I don't have', he said. He did say, though, that the cyclone generated would be 'quite strong'. Datuk Law also declined to disclose the price of creating the cyclone. But, he said, Malaysia doesn't have to pay if the project doesn't work."

BBC-Malaysia calls in Russian rainmakers

"Pick up any text book on hurricanes and it will tell you that the one place where hurricanes do not occur is the South Atlantic Ocean. The atmosphere does not provide enough spin near the surface to get them started and winds higher in the atmosphere tend to shear off any that do make a start. Hence, it was with some amazement that meteorologists watched the first ever recorded hurricane develop off the coast of Brazil in the last week of March."

Catarina hits Brazil

The director of the Russian geophysical observatory of the Russian Meteorological Service, A.Voyeikov, says that the process of making a weather forecast for Russia, the USA, Europe and Canada is much more complicated in comparison with other states. "Atmospheric processes are not stable on these territories, and cyclones may occur absolutely incidentally," Voyeikov said."

Modern technologies unable to predict weather changes

Not stable? Why so or perhaps this guy just wasn't educated to the same high standards as you were? What do you think?

"CNN) -- Hurricanes aren't behaving like many of us are used to them behaving. They're bigger and meaner, and more numerous than many people have seen.
Charley, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne tore up parts of Florida last year. After tweaking Florida, Katrina and Rita are wreaking havoc this year along the Gulf Coast from Alabama to Texas.
But don't rush to blame it on global warming, experts warn.
Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center in Miami, told a Senate subcommittee on Tuesday that we're in a period of heightened hurricane activity that could last another decade or two."

CNN-It's a 'new era' of hurricanes.

"As the heat wave continues to fry Greater Toronto, residents are left with a burning question: Why has this summer been so hot and humid?
The answer is anything but simple."No one wants to answer that question because none of us really knows," said Ellen Wall, a professor of environmental sciences at the University of Guelph.

What is clear, say meteorologists, is that air from the south produces warm weather, while air from the north results in cool weather. Unlike last summer, when lots of northerly air flew over Toronto, most of the air this summer has its roots in the Gulf of Mexico and the pollution-thick Ohio valley, said David Phillips, a senior climatologist with Environment Canada.
This southerly air explains the warm temperatures, said Phillips.
What is not known is why the high-pressure system that has hovered over Toronto in recent weeks, resulting in week-after-week of record-breaking heat, has refused to budge."

Toronto Star-Why is this summer so hot?

And i could go on; there really is plenty of people in 'your' field who have for decades expressed puzzlement at how certain things are happening and how they were not formerly thought possible. Clearly things are different than they used to be so the question is largely 'why' with you having seen my 'explanation' for it.

Whether the likes of HAARP may inadvertently affect medium or long term synoptics is another matter.

Sure because you education were good enough to ensure that you don't think you know everything; just apparently nearly everything.


I beleive the data is there to inspect and i apologise if these new technologies negates much of the qualifications required to be called a meterologist. I really am sorry that the climate and weahter are being taken out of the hands of nature and used as some national governments see fit.

Sorry.

Stellar

PS: It's been a while since i checked most of these links so if some don't work let me know so i can take them off my list or search for alternatives



[edit on 3-3-2009 by StellarX]

Originally posted by StellarX
But why would they suspect scalar weapons? I mean if the presumption is that it's natural you just have to adape the models presuming that natural is different from what it used to be? Why do you think Global warming is in vogue with the people who used to be able to understand weather patterns?

GW is about long term trends. No meteorologist with his salt would attribute any specific weather event or even series of events to GW (though the media constantly ask them to do so and may misquote them accordingly).

Wouldn't you require a new phenomenon to explain what you can't otherwise explain?

But is there any real evidence of synoptic patterns developing that cannot be explained by well known meteorological processes? And I don't mean someone quoted in the media as saying "we don't know why it was hot/cold/wet last week".

And even more unlikely that the British, French, Americans, Indians, Chinese, Peruvians, Iranians, Russians, Mexicans, South Africans, Japanese etc are all in on the plot together.

Why presume that this is known and understood by most governments thus requiring a massive conspiracy? What would these governments tell their meteorologist or their people in this disclosour?

Simply because with so many thousands of people involved, someone , somewhere is going to notice something. And if the Russians suspect the Americans of causing drought in Australia ........ well who knows?

And i could go on; there really is plenty of people in 'your' field who have for decades expressed puzzlement at how certain things are happening and how they were not formerly thought possible. Clearly things are different than they used to be so the question is largely 'why' with you having seen my 'explanation' for it.

Actually, they'd be expressing such puzzlement for thousands of years We know more today, but still not everything. And for many parts of the world we only have a few decades worth of data to compare we.

We're only now slowly starting to understand the processes involved in tornado formations. In the UK there are local weather effects (such as The Brown Willy Effect) which again are only now being scientificly described and understood. This doesn't mean they are new phenomena nor that we're having to invent explanations for what is really - unbeknownst to us - deliberate weather manipulation.

When things like the S Atlantic hurricane occur we look back over the data and do not see anything that cannot be explained by standard meteorology (and in such cases, it's actually sea temperatures which are crucial, not atmospheric synoptics). Moreover, in this case the 'cane formed in the area where some climate models had predicted hurricanes would form more often in the future, if GW continues.

Why is so much time and money spend - by the likes of NASA and even the military - into better understanding atmospheric processes if in fact we already know so much we can even manipulate those processes. It'd be like spending billions of dollar inventing a means of driving a cart by means of an internal combustion engine.

Who did all the research than enabled this scale of manipulation? Where? When?

Whether the likes of HAARP may inadvertently affect medium or long term synoptics is another matter.

Sure because you education were good enough to ensure that you don't think you know everything; just apparently nearly everything.

Hey, I never claim to be absolutely right I always allow for the possiblity that things beyond my ken are occurring and that I may be wrong. But with regards any large scale weather manipulation I simply cannot see it, any more than I believe we already have faster than light space travel.

I beleive the data is there to inspect and i apologise if these new technologies negates much of the qualifications required to be called a meterologist. I really am sorry that the climate and weahter are being taken out of the hands of nature and used as some national governments see fit.

And I see no evidence of such technology and simply see nature as being bigger and more powerful and indeed stranger and more complex than we used to think. The more we learn the more we discover there is to learn. I think it will be some centuries yet before we become a Type 1 civilisation. I don't think we're half as clever as we sometimes like to think.

But as we know from past discussions, we're never going to agree on this

Lets keep an eye on the storms this year who knows maybe we will find something that can contrinute to odd behavior for a storm.

Originally posted by Essan
GW is about long term trends. No meteorologist with his salt would attribute any specific weather event or even series of events to GW (though the media constantly ask them to do so

and may misquote them accordingly).

Hi Essan,

Global climate change, as the historic records shows it to be, is about long term trends and yet that's not the impression you would get from either the media or certain 'professionals' employed by the media. As for misquoting that surely happens but what about the IPPC and similar reports? Why burden the media with these worse case scenarios and possibilities when they are going to insist on saying that it's 'possible' when it really isn't?

But is there any real evidence of synoptic patterns developing that cannot be explained by well known meteorological processes? And I don't mean someone quoted in the media as saying "we don't know why it was hot/cold/wet last week".

Yes, there seems to be but perhaps those who should know and don't know just presume that others who are qualified to know do know?

"Pick up any text book on hurricanes and it will tell you that the one place where hurricanes do not occur is the South Atlantic Ocean. The atmosphere does not provide enough spin near the surface to get them started and winds higher in the atmosphere tend to shear off any that do make a start. Hence, it was with some amazement that meteorologists watched the first ever recorded hurricane develop off the coast of Brazil in the last week of March."

Uk weather service-Catarina hits Brazil

My problem is with the rather logical presumption that it must be natural. If one presumes that you just shrug and work towards coming up with models that could make it possible however improbable the scenario is; it after all happened so clearly it's possible. This is why presumption is so dangerous and why governments get away with their very big lies that citizens tend to presume too unlikely to think about.

Simply because with so many thousands of people involved, someone , somewhere is going to notice something. And if the Russians suspect the Americans of causing drought in Australia ........ well who knows?

Both countries have nuclear weapons they are itching to use to further their own interest and yet, for obvious reasons, they dont. Wouldn't it make a great deal of sense not to declare the existence of weapons you can use without many or any being aware of it? If your country/people were the victim of such and you figured it out what would said government do if no one would believe them?

Actually, they'd be expressing such puzzlement for thousands of years

We know more today, but still not everything. And for many parts of the world we only have a few decades worth of data to compare we.

So it's OK to feign ignorance when it suits meteorologist or they don't have any reasonable or logical answers?

We're only now slowly starting to understand the processes involved in tornado formations. In the UK there are local weather effects (such as The Brown Willy Effect) which again are only now being scientificly described and understood.

Yes and again how old is the 'Brown Willy Effect' ( lol)? This is my problem with the presumption that it must be natural as it immediately robs us of any chance to come up with anything but post hoc models to explain what we never would have predicted before. As i remember our models should be able to predict these effects and if we don't notice the possibility beforehand we should at least be able to go back and see the inferences we missed?

This doesn't mean they are new phenomena nor that we're having to invent explanations for what is really - unbeknownst to us - deliberate weather manipulation.

Or, alternatively, that's exactly what it means. Who in the field could admit such thus making their job dependent on understanding what Pentagon/Russian war plans are for tomorrow?

When things like the S Atlantic hurricane occur we look back over the data and do not see anything that cannot be explained by standard meteorology (and in such cases, it's actually sea temperatures which are crucial, not atmospheric synoptics). Moreover, in this case the 'cane formed in the area where some climate models had predicted hurricanes would form more often in the future, if GW continues.

So perhaps i should just read 'GW' to mean that they are figuring out what the weather manipulation technologies allows for and might in the future be used for?

The disturbance was in an unusually favorable environment with below average wind shear and above average sea surface temperatures. The combination of the two led to a slow transition from an Extratropical cyclone to a Subtropical cyclone by March 24. The storm continued to obtain tropical characteristics and became a tropical storm the next day while the winds steadily increased. The storm reached winds of 75 mph (120 km/h)—equivalent to a low-end category one hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale—on March 26. At this time it was unofficially named Catarina and was also the first hurricane-intensity tropical cyclone ever recorded in the Southern Atlantic Ocean. Unusually favorable conditions persisted and Catarina continued to intensify and was estimated to have peaked with winds of 100 mph (155 km/h) on March 28.

en.wikipedia.org...

Only once again it's inferred that because the sea temperatures were just warm enough, and somehow persisted, and the wind shear was low enough, and somehow persisted, it must be natural. Perhaps i should focus on the fact that these weather weapons are basically injecting or withdrawing energy from a local environment thus manipulating it in a suitable way for these formations to start? How would one infer a outside hand when you just observe the changes in energy levels never asking how that is or could be possible or wasn't seen to be before?

Why is so much time and money spend - by the likes of NASA and even the military - into better understanding atmospheric processes if in fact we already know so much we can even manipulate those processes.

Although hurricane forecasting is an inexact science, an investigative series by The Miami Herald suggests it could be considerably more accurate if the National Hurricane Center's equipment functioned better and its research efforts were bolstered.
The newspaper's study of 45 hurricanes that have struck land since 1992 indicated significant failures of buoys, weather balloons, radar, sensors and aircraft that hindered the tracking of nearly half of the storms. Forecasters are, in the words of one science officer, "forecasting blind'' because of inadequate funding and -- to a lesser extent -- misallocation of resources.
Budget constraints that grounded the center's uniquely equipped Gulfstream jet, coupled with critical data lost because of computer crashes, may have caused forecasters to fail to predict damage from Hurricane Katrina in South Florida and delayed evacuation warnings to New Orleans. Missing weather balloon readings, malfunctioning observation stations and a failure to fly planes equipped to measure wind speeds may have contributed to an inability to anticipate the power of Hurricane Charley when it shifted course and slammed into Punta Gorda, Fla., killing 35 people.
Hurricane researcher Mike Black told Herald reporter Debbie Cenziper that putting proper equipment in place could improve hurricane tracking by 20 percent and intensity forecasts by 50 percent. That could save lives and many times the needed outlay in economic losses, especially in an era of increased hurricane activity.
Congress needs to set aside more money for hurricane forecasting, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration needs to do a better of allocating resources.

Indystar-Forecasting trouble

So i just think your, like me, begging the question of why money is not being allocated to properly fund the research required to better understand what is happening, if anything, to our atmosphere. Perhaps i didn't make it clear before but i don't think the US is responsible for much of this weather manipulation and may in fact be 'new' to it's weaponisation. As we can see by the following those 'others' already seem to have it:

Continued

"Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves."

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

DoD News Briefing
Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen

It'd be like spending billions of dollar inventing a means of driving a cart by means of an internal combustion engine.

Who did all the research than enabled this scale of manipulation? Where? When?

The former USSR, since the 50's trough systems such as the woodpecker:

The Russian Woodpecker was a notorious Soviet signal that could be heard on the shortwave radio bands worldwide between July 1976 and December 1989. It sounded like a sharp, repetitive tapping noise, at 10 Hz, giving rise to the "Woodpecker" name. The random frequency hops disrupted legitimate broadcast, amateur radio, and utility transmissions and resulted in thousands of complaints by many countries worldwide.

en.wikipedia.org...

Khrushchev proclaimed that the Soviet Union intended to reduce its standing armed forces by a third in the next year or two, from 3,623,000 to 2,423,000.

Yet, as Khrushchev unrolled some details, he made it clear that he was not being a bit impractical. "Our air force and navy," said Khrushchev, waving a stubby finger at his listeners, "have lost their previous importance. Their arms are not being reduced but replaced. We have cut down and we shall even discontinue the manufacture of bombers; already our armed forces have to a considerable extent shifted to rocket and nuclear arms. The proposed reduction will in no way reduce the firepower of our armed forces, and this is the main point. . . Soviet scientists have made it possible to equip our army with weapons hitherto unknown to man."

"It is now quite clear," Khrushchev went on, "that the U.S. is not the world's most powerful military power. We are not trying to sweat anybody, but these are the facts." Rattling his rockets in the style he used to assail Western "military circles" for doing a few years ago, Khrushchev promised to "wipe from the face of the earth" any aggressor, and boasted: "Though the weapons we have now are formidable indeed, the weapon we have today in the hatching stage is even more formidable. The weapon, which is being developed and is, as they say, in the portfolio of our scientists and designers, is a fantastic weapon.

www.time.com...

Curtis, George D.

Text: "An electromagnetic radiation pattern over the ocean." Reports a previously unknown weak electromagnetic radiation pattern over the ocean. When all known effects are accounted for, the anomalous pattern still remains. Undersea Technology. 5(8), Aug. 1964. p. 29-30; 40.

www.svpvril.com...

But you would say that's just the typical posturing despite the fact that the former secretary of defense Cohen disagrees with you.

Hey, I never claim to be absolutely right

I always allow for the possiblity that things beyond my ken are occurring and that I may be wrong. But with regards any large scale weather manipulation I simply cannot see it, any more than I believe we already have faster than light space travel.

Neither do i and i too allow for the possibility that things beyond my understanding or knowledge are occurring or that there may in fact be far more mundane explanations for the strange events and effects i have studied.

And I see no evidence of such technology and simply see nature as being bigger and more powerful and indeed stranger and more complex than we used to think. The more we learn the more we discover there is to learn.

Well what you or i see is clearly based on our subjectives views of the world hence my inclusion of all these press clippings and things. I agree that nature is bigger and more powerful than we realise even today but i think you underestimate just how powerful a force human intelligence is when applied to changing systems; you after all one of those who believe that we are in fact changing the planet's atmospheric composition without having made a concerted intelligent effort to do so. Perhaps you wish to put your mind to what we can and could accomplish if we intelligently directed our mental energies or those energy nature naturally makes available to us?

I think it will be some centuries yet before we become a Type 1 civilisation. I don't think we're half as clever as we sometimes like to think.

Don't know about the types of civilization but i can agree that i think that both you and most of the rest of humanity isn't as clever as you think you are. But perhaps i'm too 'clever' ( read misguided) for my own good and i am just as ignorant as the rest of you guys who think we have unintelligently and effortlessly affected the worlds climate? Who knows....

But as we know from past discussions, we're never going to agree on this

I think we could but as i see it you have a bit too much in vested in the belief that everything that happens in our skies is both natural and inadvertent; we have just enough intelligence to destroy our environment but apparently not enough intelligence to build massive hydro electric schemes and direct the energy so captured for intelligent manipulation of our environment.

And sorry for digging this up, not my fault..

Stellar

reply to post by TheMythLives


Yes of course this is happening. The government is playing God and causing extreme consequences.

Health related problem, environmental catastrophes. Yes they are using chemtrails to do this, as you have shown.

Excellent thread! Thanks!

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

Experts at weather modification. Accidentally drop a bag of cement but they're able to manipulate hurricanes? I think not.

I call Human error - 1 apple doesn't make a bunch & I'm on the fench with your last point...

reply to post by StellarX


StellarX-
Excellent and well documented! Kudos to you!
I was first enlightened about weather malnipulation right after 'Katrina' by Steven Scott's 'weatherwars.com' website which for some odd reason the original site was taken down (go figure).
The U.S. started playing in this field back in the late 40's when blowing up nukes in the pacific ocean's atmoshere which lead ultimately to 'Project Haarp'. Now as you stated other countries are now getting involved.
Russia's first atempts at malnipulation was placing an oil slick in front of a tropical storm and 'steering it' by the the increased water temperature that the slick caused. That was way back when. Now the use of radio signals(ie- microwaves) can cause the same effects and more controlled, as when the Russians used the crude attempt of an oil slick.
Again, you have done very good research and documented information on the proof of 'human malnipulation' of our weather. Thank you!

hey if anyone is interested in HAARP, check out this thread with some interesting videos about HAARP..

HAARP Videos

reply to post by wonderworld


Playing God only leads to Extraordinary problems. This is the worst thing ever, again lets keep our eyes open and maybe we will see some unusual behavior..

reply to post by hdchop


Yea. I have to agree just one error does not mean that they do not have the abilities. Accidents happen and I believe that was just an accident.

Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by wonderworld

 

Playing God only leads to Extraordinary problems. This is the worst thing ever, again lets keep our eyes open and maybe we will see some unusual behavior..

That's our biggest problem. While weather malnipulation can be used to benefit us, by let's say, bringing rain to a drought area, ie.- create a high pressure area through the heating of the air thus sucking the surrounding atmoshere into it to feed it then creating a low pressure system(storms), we cause a domino effect which keeps going because nature is trying to balance itself. Our odd weather patterns?

For every action there's a reaction.

reply to post by geo1066


Most definately, it could help us a lot. But it can also be used for evil. The technology is neutral, the human is not. I only wish that they stop it, because eventually something unpredictable is going to happen and perhaps it will change the face of the world forever.

Originally posted by doctordoom
This thread is much appreciated by me.

Cloud seeding is a huge money making business that has gotten out of hand.

It's whats killing the birds
It's whats killing the bees
It's whats killing the trees.

It will kill us.

I respectfully disagree.

I think it is we who are killing the birds, the bees and the trees.

We are killing ourselves and we fear the change necessary to do anything meaningful about it. It's just in our nature.

The causes of this destruction of the planet are much more complicated than simple cloud seeding. To think that's the only contributing factor, that just doesn't make sense. You're ignoring things like manmade fossil fuel emissions and coral bleaching being caused by the ocean's absorption of more and more CO2. Regardless of whether or not we are having a substantial impact on overall CO2 levels, we are still doing more to exacerbate the situation than anything else.

What we need is an energy revolution in this country.

There is alot of great research going on as we speak. Energy research like they're doing at the National Ignition Facility in Livermore, California in which they're experimenting with a new method of nuclear power by using the biggest laser ever built.

But there is just so much more we could still do and it just isn't getting done. Unfortunately, with the economic situation what it is at the moment, right now probably isn't such a great time to be dumping billions of dollars we don't have into trying to pass a revolutionary new energy plan that "Big Oil", special interests and alot of politicians are going to be against anyway.

people seeding clouds to get rain amidst unimaginable drought like they recently had in the Midwest and still have in parts of Australia.. that's the least of our worries right now. If I only had a bucket of water to shower everyday like they do in some parts of Australia right now due to water rationing, I'd probably be up there seeding clouds too. If you saw the shocking photos in National Geographic recently you'd be stunned. Entire lakes, big ones, have just disappeared. Then there's the food crisis on top of it. It's getting ridiculous.

Australia suffers worst drought in 1,000 years

-ChriS

reply to post by geo1066


But the only reason we are even still here is because nature DOES always balance itself out. That is probably what our planet is best at.
There isn't any evidence (at all) to suggest that cloud seeding in one location would affect rainfall elsewhere. We live on a planet that's covered with water over the majority of its surface. But a few rainshowers in one drought-ridden country is going to affect rainfall somewhere else on the planet? The only reason people would even consider this idea is as a mental exercise. But when you really think about it, it doesn't make any sense. And there isnt' any reason based on real scientific data to even make such an assumption.

-ChriS

reply to post by BlasteR


Yes, nature does balance itself out. could be the reasons for our present weather patterns.

And yes,we are still here because Humans are the most adaptable animal on this planet.

Cloud seeding doesn't always work. The conditions have to be ideal. A low pressure trough has already have to exist. Cloud seeding just helps to accumulate the water molecules together to produce rainfall. So the 'domino effect' on a weather pattern is nominal due to pre-conditions already existing.

Our scientific data does exist but is pointed in the direction of greenhouse gases,glacial melt and even sunspot activity. Why would they look at something along the lines of microwaving the atmosphere, as in the Haarp Program, when such projects are supposedly non-existent?


It's a conspiracy I tell ya. We should have a website dedicated to such things!

Do you guys ever remember seeing the movie where the military uses a device that manipulates low pressure systems and makes them into hurricanes? i think it had michael dougless as the general in the movie but anyway if somethin like what happened in that movie became a reality we wouldn't have the hero that stops it just in time probably.

reply to post by TheMythLives


Starred and Flagged


Thanks!!

You gave me all the proof i've been looking for on this subject.

They will definately be able to pull off PROJECT BLUE BEAM

US Government project in development to simulate a "second coming" type event. This will culminate in a very large number of people being taken away into the sky as in a "rapture" type of situation. These events will be brought to fruition by use of the sky as a holographic projection screen for space-based, laser-generating satellites. These space-based projectors are said to project simultaneous images to the four corners of the planet, in every language by region. It will pretend to be the universal fulfillment of the prophecies of old.