Graffiti girl jailed for first offence

Originally posted by noonebutme
Good stuff!! The girl deserves all she gets. She broke the law and caused damages. For those of you who say it was too harsh, or the who "Ye without sin" bollocks -- if you were the shop owner and had to pay to get that removed, how "happy" would you be for her to get a slap on the wrist and allowed to go home? I'd be furious.

People are far too lenient on kids these days, allowing them to get off from punishment. Doing that, they know they're immune and continue to commit crimes and aggro.

I'd love to see these kids who commit crimes, especially serious ones, be given some solitary confinement for 2 weeks. Stripped naked, bunged into a pitch black cell and fed via a slot in the door for two weeks.

Then when they come out, tell them the next offense it's 1 month. Then 2, then 4.

Watch and see how many kids who get caught will reoffend...

Whoa there lad, calm down. Seriously? The average shop owner just wants recompensation, I don't think they are sick enough to WANT a young person to go to jail for a minor offense. What you want to see done to these kids is just wrong, just terribly wrong.

As you know, repeatedly imprisoning teens just causes (most of them) to become hardened crimals. I damn well don't want to go to hell, the mention of such a place existing scares the crap out of me. Send me there a couple of times and I might bring some ice and a bottle of patrone on the next visit.



[edit on 3-2-2009 by LeTan]

Originally posted by atlasastro
While this is great for the criminal, how does the law serve the people, protect their property and their freedoms and liberties and ensure that these are not violated routinely at great cost to them only, this is its real purpose. How do you resolve this tezza?

Maybe you haven't remembered much of the last 14 pages... as I've already stated how I would have resolved it.

I would have let her apologise to the cafe owner. Pay to clean the wall herself. Work in his cafe for a few hours mopping floors and picking out gum from under the tables and chairs.

Question: How do you reform hard-core texta wielding criminals like this teenager?
Answer: One at a time. They're individuals, not numbers or statistics.

reply to post by LeTan


He also wants those KIDS stripped Naked...

*What kind of person wants such a thing?

It gets worse: He also wants them 'bunged into a pitch black cell and fed via a slot in the door for two weeks. '...

*What kind of person wants to do this to Children?

Notice how he chose to use the word 'KIDS' when he made this disgusting suggestion.....

What kind of Person talks about KIDS like this?

[SNIP]


[edit on 3-2-2009 by Exuberant1]

Mod Edit: Removed accusation. Please focus on the topic and not on the poster.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by Gemwolf]

Remember those voyages that came to Australia carrying thousands of 'convicts' most of whom had done nothing more than steal bread to feed their starving families? You know, the First and Second Fleets etc etc?

Hate to tell you but this is sounding awfully similar. Instead of doing something to prevent people from doing it (in this case how about education schemes and actual stuff for the kids to do rather than walk around bored night after night) you would rather slap em all on a boat and sail them off to a far-distant land to be worked as slaves. Top notch stuff there fella's.

If I'm not the topic, then why did you devote one of your posts to quoting me?

I didn't. i was politely replying to this post by Kyrties.rl=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread433280/pg13#pid5755246]post by Kryties[/url]

Damn right I'm emotional in this thread. It's a travesty that this teenager was sentenced to three months jail for writing her name on a wall.

. A travesty. I'll ask again. What are you doing about it?

Yeah, your setting it right bro. All the way down there with the Melbourne massive.

Here's what I've done to push this injustice worldwide - I posted the thread and with help from debating with you and a few others, it's reached front page on ATS as a hot topic link.

Every post helps to expose how ridiculous this decision was, to more people, across the world. I couldn't have done it without you! And they will see my posts too. So whats the record for ATS causing change on state level legislation and policy on the sentencing of graffiti related crimes? If you look at the posts, only opinion is expressed.
No solutions are discussed, no one wants to discuss the path that has led us here. My bet is that this thread will go the way your Cotter thread did. Remember that One. He was sentenced today.www.abovetopsecret.com... Good to see you following up. Fighting the good fight. I agree thought, its cool you made the Board.

reply to post by atlasastro


"A travesty. I'll ask again. What are you doing about it? "

He already answered ;-)

He is bringing attention to the issue.

Nice try though!

Cheers!

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by LeTan

 

He also wants those KIDS stripped Naked...

*What kind of person wants such a thing?

It gets worse: He also wants them 'bunged into a pitch black cell and fed via a slot in the door for two weeks. '...

*What kind of person wants to do this to Children?

Notice how he chose to use the word 'KIDS' when he made this disgusting suggestion.....

What kind of Person talks about KIDS like this?

[SNIP]


[edit on 3-2-2009 by Exuberant1]

Whoaaaa! Slow down there, Tex. Nothing of the sort! Ok, if it makes you happy, swap 'kids' with "juvenile offenders". Ok?

And yes, treat them harsh -- show them that the laws are there to be RESPECTED.

It's people like you who want to perpetuate this "nurture" behaviour that keeps these kids living in a state of continually reoffending because they know nothing will be done! They're immune. What, they get a social order writ? Or stronger, a curfew? Big deal. They don't care -- these sorts of things are considered rights of passage and social trophies by many.

Sheesh. The ''pedo' comments are a bit extreme, fella.

Mod Edit: Removed quoted accusation. Please remain on topic.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by atlasastro
So whats the record for ATS causing change on state level legislation and policy on the sentencing of graffiti related crimes? If you look at the posts, only opinion is expressed.

ATS reaches lots of people around the world. More so than a breaking news headline on an Aussie news website.

People around the world can see that the Aussie justice system is just as screwed up as other places.

No solutions are discussed, no one wants to discuss the path that has led us here.

Solutions were discussed. You probably chose to ignore them.

My bet is that this thread will go the way your Cotter thread did.

Way to go off topic now, atlasastro! Here's a tip for you, why don't you post IN THAT THREAD and give us all the update!

reply to post by noonebutme


"It's people like you who want to perpetuate this "nurture" behaviour that keeps these kids living in a state of continually reoffending because they know nothing will be done!"

You don't even know anything about me except that I'm an ardent Constitutionalist ;-)

Have you read your country's Constitution?

Originally posted by atlasastro
A travesty. I'll ask again. What are you doing about it?

.

He has already told you several times in this thread. You seem intent on keeping this argument going around in circles. Perhaps you are feeling like you might be wrong and perhaps you are now just sending these arguments into circles to hide this fact??

No solutions are discussed, no one wants to discuss the path that has led us here.

Umm, yes we do! Now you are just making things up! It's just that our solutions differ from yours and you cannot seem to accept that, hence you continue to bring up the same questions attempting to send this argument into an infinite loop so as to hide the fact that you're in over your head here.



[edit on 3/2/2009 by Kryties]

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by noonebutme

 

"It's people like you who want to perpetuate this "nurture" behaviour that keeps these kids living in a state of continually reoffending because they know nothing will be done!"

You don't even know anything about me except that I'm an ardent Constitutionalist ;-)

Have you read your country's Constitution?

Nope, I could care less. In my country the Human Rights brigade are far too powerful and let criminals get away with crimes while the victims become the persecuted. Sadly...

And you don't know a damned thing about me exepct that you slap out a quite harsh implication of a pedo nature because that was the only way to polarise my point.

Heh, thats funny, cause in our country, the government are the criminals and the people's rights brigade let them keep doing what they do.

Judging from your statement though, sounds like you are bitter about a young adult doing something to wrong you. The point is though, she is already convicted, for a minor crime. I think a suitable sentence would be community service and one day in jail, just to let her know how it tastes.

What happens when you strike the iron too hard while it's still hot? Deformalities in the final product.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by LeTan]

The grandmother of a Sydney teenager jailed for three months after tagging a cafe wall says she hasn't been punished harshly enough.

Source

Wow. I can hardly blame someone for not spending much time at home, given that her own grandmother wants to jail her for 18 months.

I suspect a little parental care lacking, perhaps?

Originally posted by LeTan
Whoa there lad, calm down. Seriously? The average shop owner just wants recompensation, I don't think they are sick enough to WANT a young person to go to jail for a minor offense. What you want to see done to these kids is just wrong, just terribly wrong.

Well, that's your opinion and that's fine. But having had to deal with "juvenile delinquents" (happy?) far too many times, I *do* know that a slap on the wrist does sweet f.a.

As you know, repeatedly imprisoning teens just causes (most of them) to become hardened crimals. I damn well don't want to go to hell, the mention of such a place existing scares the crap out of me. Send me there a couple of times and I might bring some ice and a bottle of patrone on the next visit.

Exactly. You don't want to go there. Because presumably you understand how awful it is. And these JD's don't get that understanding. They assume the law is always on their side because they are not adults. We have kids running about stabbing each other as young as 9 here. Kids steal from shops, vandalise cars and private property all the time. The police can't do anything except 'catch them in the act' and report them to their parents, who are the main cause of these issues.

Fine, you don't want something as harsh as imprisonment. How about "National Service" for all teens from the age of 17 to 21. Drive a little respect and pride into them.

ATTENTION

Please focus on the topic at hand. This means

1. Don't quote irrelevant posts from other threads.
2. Don't attack posters.
3. Stay within this topic.

Play the ball, not the player.

Thank you.

Civility and Decorum are Required

Originally posted by noonebutme
And yes, treat them harsh -- show them that the laws are there to be RESPECTED.
[edit on 3-2-2009 by Gemwolf]

How can you respect laws when there are laws in place that imprison innocent people for smoking a relatively harmless substance compared to the plethora of legal prescription medicines and alcohol/tobacco?

How can you respect laws when they people enforcing them repeatedly kill or injure people who posed no threat?

How can you respect laws when they are held up and/or proposed by corrupt politicians?

Maybe if the legal system in this country wasn't so messed up people would respect the law more.

This is actually quite funny, and quite rediculous. Screaming and shouting in ATS is not going to change a damned thing about how the judicial system hands down its punishments guys.

Oh you may "think" your reaching the world here, but you are not. You are only reaching a very select few who find controversial and conspiracy topics interesting.

When was the last time any of you have seen a government official who creates laws hang around a conspiracy site, much less a judge or city council or group of personal rights lawyers?

As I stated, and as others have, more than once, your barking up the wrong tree and making a stance in the wrong room. Certian few here are not discussing the issue, they are expressing their discontent about a law of their city/country where I am sure those lawmakers did not spend 1 split second at all relying on opinion of the populace where they govern to create the laws, nor did they hang around forums and ask members for ideas.

Perhaps those of you who live there in Au, were too busy hanging around a forum site and not paying attention to the newspapers or government announcements about public hearings about issues regarding laws pertaining to defacing public and private property?

Obviously there were people who did pay attention and voiced their opinions about those laws in the proper area..at the halls of justice perhaps?

So instead of shoving personal opinion about how you all feel about the screwed up justice system there, why not actually do something about it that will bring about a change?

Saying that your screaming and shouting here at ATS will wake up the world is grasping for air at the bottom of the ocean. You got a very long way to go to get air with that one. Dont believe me? Well just look at the reply statistics of the thread itself. I dont see it ranking up there in the thousands or even pushing page 100. And I doubt it will.

Why not write your lawmakers, that judge, the courts, the attourneys involved, the store owner, the family of that young lady, and voice your opinion and desires to see this judgement overturned and changed to something that appeals to your liking?

Or is it..that it wont do any good and is why no one yet has even done this, but rant and rave here in this thread?

List me on your foe list all you want, wont change the situation there with the laws of your country. Its just a sad fact that if you want something to change, you have to do something for that change yourself. Crying about it in a forum wont make other people do your work for you.

So how about discussing possible ideas to change the laws instead of discussing personal feelings and wants for this young lady's situation. Take a role, get out of the armchair and do something real that just might bring a real change.





Cheers!!!!

reply to post by Kryties


Ok, I think I asked what he would do that has not been done before, which has to date failed. I think I point out repeatedly that Tezza's solution is old, tested and yeilded no result, but I may have been unclear at all time in requsting tezza's insights into a new solution, as these LAWS are new, society is offering one. Tezza's response i believe is a warning, pay costs and clean the graffiti off. been there, done that, hence the new laws.

What is your solution in light of this view.

Mr McRae gave her a sobering wake-up call, saying graffiti cost the community millions in clean-up bills and taggers or graffiti vandals needed to be sent a clear message.

He said that unless the courts start treating it seriously people would continue thinking it was an innocent offence.

www.news.com.au...



just added this quote. I think it highlights what I am trying to point out.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by atlasastro]

reply to post by RFBurns


Heh, I thought this was a discussion site. I'm just stating what I believe and my opinions and questioning others on their's.

I think if this site or the people here had the power to reach the world as you claim they think they do, we would probably have revolution by tomorrow.

Originally posted by PullThePin
How can you respect laws when there are laws in place that imprison innocent people for smoking a relatively harmless substance compared to the plethora of legal prescription medicines and alcohol/tobacco?

How can you respect laws when they people enforcing them repeatedly kill or injure people who posed no threat?

How can you respect laws when they are held up and/or proposed by corrupt politicians?

Maybe if the legal system in this country wasn't so messed up people would respect the law more.

I agree. The legal systems in much of North America and UK/Europe are pretty messed up. And to your first point - I don't know. I don't agree that certain items that are classified as they are, should be classified as such.

But in this case tho, the girl spray painting her name on something wasn't like smoking certain substances or drinking alcohol in that it wasn't something she did to herself. Theoretically, smoking and drinking *shouldn't* affect people around you (yes yes I know 2nd hand smoke but I'm speaking semantically here) as it's an individual act for your own benefit.

Vandalising public/commercial property *isn't* the same thing tho. At least I don't see it that way. She caused damage to someone else's property, willfully and intentionally. Ok, maybe it doesn't cost millions to repair, nor has anyone died or been physically harmed.

However, if a mere sentence of a fine, asbo, caution or a night in jail is the only recourse, these "juveniles" realise that they *won't* get in any serious trouble. So, what's to stop them? It *should* be the parents but, well... you need a license for a pet but not for children. Sigh.