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Graffiti girl jailed for first offence

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posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by Kryties

Remember, this is a first time offender - NEVER in the history of first time offenders have I seen a court give out a jail sentence for something as small as graffiti. Never.


Umm, maybe because these laws just came into effect, so historically they are just 2 months old.
Can you show me where I can consult the history of First Time offenders, that would be interesting to look at.
Hyperbole anyone.




posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro

Originally posted by tezzajw
Here's an option that the law HAS NOT tried with HER. How about fining her $200, making her clean the graffitti and work a few hours in the cafe washing floors?

Has this worked in the past with others?

I don't care, you know why? The whole article is not about others, it's about HER.

The law did not provide her with a fair, reasonable or just punishement.



Our State and courts have moved beyonded catering penalties for individuals who do not care for the laws and the other people they effect.

Up until this point, she hasn't been on the wrong side of the law. That's what no prior convictions means. If she didn't care for laws, then she probably have had prior convictions.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 


"Has this worked in the past with others?
Fines, community service have been used for years,"


This was HER first 'offence'....

Nice Try!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 01:23 AM
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The only reason that article irritates me is the fact that it makes it clear to me that they are now only jailing people who will get short sentences so that the jails will clear up and have greater throughput while they carefully arrange to let the long term inmates out through appeals. Almost nobody goes into jail for a serious stint anymore even if the crime was serious.
I think 3 months is a stupid sentence for this especially considering that repeat thieves quite frequently get 6 months or even community service. A spot fine would have been enough and at most some community service cleaning graffiti.

The judges still need to say they jailed so many people though, and since there isnt enough room for peadophiles, murderers and rapists, we might as well put short term petty criminals instead.

I remember there was a story about a year ago about a girl who was on a train and had her feet up on the seats, it transpired that the rail company that she happened to be travelling on had criminalised putting feet on seats and she was facing a criminal conviction for this non-offence. I believe she was a history student at Oxford so not exactly a danger to the public.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by Kryties


Mate, I cannot stand it when the opposing opinion attempts to make the other side out to be a bunch of paranoid fruitcakes when it suits them. It detracts from intelligent discussion and quite frankly it makes me think that it is actually the accuser who is paranoid.
I've had a few discussion with terra, sorry tezza and I can provide you with quotes about the over reactions tezza quite often displays as a response.

They're not going to be safe from the pitchforks for when they finally meet some revenge by disgruntled 'clients'.
This is form the OP, so Tezza thinks that a mob with pitch forks will be after Judges.
Not once has Tezza discussed the processes and community volition involved in persuing these new laws, the cost to our state as a result of graffiti and the failures of alternatives that has seen these new laws come about. There has been no discussion on this even though I have raised it numerous times and often made references to the genesis of these laws that see this women in her current predicament. And I have done this with links and other sources to highlight my view point. This can only lead me to believe that The OP is only here to discuss his opinion, and his only.
I notice you fail to point out that Tezza accuses anyone supporting or accepting this sentence as being simply

I know what some replies will be... law-and-order freaks will say good job, she destroyed private property. Ah-huh.
post by tezzajw
Why have you failed to do this Kryties.

This is why I say things like "breath in, and out". Here we have the OP stating that these laws are merely created to control "plebs".

Laws are made by rich and powerful people to control the plebs. Laws don't apply the same way to rich and powerful people in the same way they do to the plebs.
Yet Tezza offers no sources to support this. I on the other hand have provided links and articles that show the source of these laws, what motivated this new legislation and its bi-partisan approval that saw it become law and why this case is significant in showing this process has been on going for three years.

The civil uprisings around the globe might help to show the law and the lawmakers how frail they really are.
post by tezzajwSo now we have Tezza involving foriegn domestic instability surrounding the Economic crisis with this incidence of harsh sentencing in Sydneys local criminal court system. Did you mention Paranoia in your post Kryties?


His name is 'Tezza' by the way, not 'Terra'.
I know Kryties. Its a joke. I admit its a poor one. This is not the first thread where Tezza has seen terra in the application and implementation of the laws. Ok, sorry Tezza.


I see no compassion in your posts, only figures and numbers. That reminds me of pencil-pushing bureaucrats who sit at their desk all day making out-of-touch decisions based on their over-inflated sense of what's right and wrong.
I don't care what I remind you off, I guess I could dig up some asinine cliche to match your inference, but it serves no purpose in the discussion. But you are making my point for me Kryties, this is my whole point. If you read my posts I clearly state that Our STATE HAS MOVED BEYOND THE COURSE OF COMPASSION AND TOLERANCE GIVEN THE SEVERITY AND COST OF THIS PROBLEM.
All you see is numbers becaue that is all you see. I see councils that can't afford to maintains equipment, parks, services. Shops that need to increase prices to cover their cleaning bills and insurance premiums. i see state Govt. clogged to their eye balls in programs, interventions, rehabs, education and prevention that has done little if anything. I see police officers booged down chasing a#$5oles that have no respect for anything or anyone else. i see courts fed up with warnings, warnings, more warnings, fines that aren't payed, more fines tha are never payed, 3 month good behaviour bonds, the 6, 12 and the community service. Thats what I see. Open your eyes. There are real reasons for these laws. Yet no one wants to discuss these in an honest way.


I'm talking about the same types of bureaucrats who start a war for oil in a certain country under the pretence of 'WMD's'.
LOL.
That just takes the cake. We all know that legislating against graffiti leads to Foreign invasion, busted, you got me. BTW I do not work for any Govt. but I have dealings with them on a superficial level. I actually did nursing at Syd University, travelled the world for a while and then returned to Australia, where I worked part time whilst concentrating on racing Ironman Distance Triathlon until 2005 mostly in Autralia. I now work in Sydney City, but I have been away for a month, following the Tour Down under in Adelaide and surfing on the central coast recently. I just got home today in fact. Man the life of a bureacrat, a WMDS pretence bureacrat. LOL. Its my lack of emotion in relation to the larger problem that distances me from reacting to ONE sentence. ONE incidence. ONE case. ONE person.
Yet you are prepared to ignore all the sentences and offences that recieve little or no real punishment. Why is that. While you and Terra, sorry, Tezza are up in arms over this one sentence, the State Govt., Local Councils and many private Buisnesses and citizens are expressing the exact opposite in relation to the MANY, MANY, MANY cases that recieve light punishments, if any. This is why we have this situation. Which I have endeavoured to discuss in a rational and logical manner, void of emotional reaction. This has allowed me to view this with a more impartial and practical point of view. Yes it involves numbers and dollars and statistics, but that is how discisions are made. That is how resources are allocated. That is how laws are made. To think otherwise or express disdain when these elements are presented to offer an explanation(not approval or endorsement) is rather absurd.

Back on topic, Who mentioed fruitcakes in their post. Oh, it was you.
Its these kind of reactionary and absurd comments(like the ones above about bureacrats and WMD) that cloud the issues in order to support your view that these laws are too harsh and exemplary an some imagined doom.
This cracks me up the most.

Mate, I cannot stand it when the opposing opinion attempts to make the other side out to be a bunch of paranoid fruitcakes when it suits them. It detracts from intelligent discussion and quite frankly it makes me think that it is actually the accuser who is paranoid.

Yeah, but its ok for you to label me a bureacrat prone to invade a soverign nation under a pretence of imagined WMD purely because I have highlighted that there is far more involved in this discussion than the outrage at sentencing.


Smell the hypocracy.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:31 AM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 


I think you are quoting Tezz out of context.

You aren't providing accurate context.

Please provide some context.

Also, you are pulling quotes from several different posts and are cutting select portions from those posts in order to do... You know what you are doing ;0)

Nice Try!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:34 AM
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Check this breaking news and read what the lady's sentence was.

Follow the above link and see how absurd the law is. I'll give you a clue, this lady didn't draw her name on a wall with a texta, she let a 14 year old girl work in a brothel...


Originally posted by atlasastro
This is why we have this situation. Which I have endeavoured to discuss in a rational and logical manner, void of emotional reaction.

You sure about that? You wouldn't have tried to personally insult my username and admit to it, if you were rational, logical and devoid of emotion.

I can't blame you for being passionate about this thread, though. It's enough to ignite mob justice when the law court has demonstrated that it has truly lost touch with the common person on the street.

Lucky we've got ATS to try and reclaim some sanity in the world, one post at a time, huh?


Originally posted by atlasastro
This has allowed me to view this with a more impartial and practical point of view. Yes it involves numbers and dollars and statistics, but that is how discisions are made. That is how resources are allocated. That is how laws are made.

Yeah, far too busy looking at the big scheme of things, caught up in the numbers, money and statistics. So busy worrying about resources that you're blinded by the fact that behind every statistic there's a real person, not just a number.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by tezzajw]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by alyosha1981
Good for them! I think if judges were this harsh on kids convicted of their first crimes, they'd think twice befire re offending.


Sad, very sad.

This is the attitude that creates a cold, selfish, heartless world, lacking in compassion and love for ourselves and our fellow humans. Disgusting. I don't know whether to cry or vomit.

What's wrong with giving the girl a rag and some soap and asking her to clean up her mess?

A bit of public embarassment and personal responsibility would change the girls attitude towards petty but unsocial behaviour - jail time will likely turn her into the kind of person that would post the sentence quoted above.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:44 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 

As I have said before and in my other posts. I am not trying anything. There is NO tolerance being displayed for a reason.

We have been down this road so many times already.
The Judge does'nt have in the LEGISLATION, first offenders will be let of with sentences that are light and easy. The LAW is there. He used it. Simple He can also, extend the compassion of the court by taking into account that it was her first offence, this is not mandatory but a practice exhibited by compassionate and tolerant people who realise people make mistakes. In this case it was not extended as it usually is. I wonder why?Once again this is just ONE case, ONE matter, ONE individual. The laws were brought about for reasons. Lots of them. 200,000,000 million dollars worth of wasted money and 100,000+ calls reporting graffiti and vandalism to name two.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by alyosha1981
 


I guess Alyosha is a saint, god i hate when idiots are just saying "good job, she never gonna do it again" sure, if someone start to beat her in jail, the rest of her life is ruined

pathetic...



[edit on 3-2-2009 by OTTOKARMA]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:51 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
Once again this is just ONE case, ONE matter, ONE individual.

To which the magistrate had the perfect opportunity of using common sense, wisdom and compassion by helping ONE person correct her ways by taking responsibility for her actions.

Facing up to your actions by apologising, fixing them and paying for them, as positive reinforcement is far better than jail. Remember, atlasastro, she wrote her name on a wall.

[sarcasm]
The stupid teenager should have used blackboard chalk, instead of a texta, then she might have only got one month jail. She could even have used a bucket of water to clean the 'damage'. No wait, buskers draw on city streets with chalk all of the time and people pay them to do it.[/sarcasm]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1

I think you are quoting Tezz out of context.

You aren't providing accurate context.

Please provide some context.

Also, you are pulling quotes from several different posts and are cutting select portions from those posts in order to do... You know what you are doing ;0)

Nice Try!
If you took the time to read the actual reply you will see I am responding to Kryties comments on my use of the term "breath in, out" etc. Kryties feels this is a personal attack on Tezza. I provide the quotes and a link to Tezza's post to highlight that at times his arguements do not appear rational, hence my "breath in, breath out. I cannot explain this to you any further and can only hope you can no follow the simplicity of the point in my post.

I have linked the replies so you can read the posts. If your are too lazy to follow these up, well, thats is your problem. Keep trying.


I don't feel that me discussing with you my discussion with kryties is really relevant and I am sure Tezza can defend himself, with his pitch fork mates too.




[edit on 3-2-2009 by atlasastro]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:08 AM
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Good stuff!! The girl deserves all she gets. She broke the law and caused damages. For those of you who say it was too harsh, or the who "Ye without sin" bollocks -- if you were the shop owner and had to pay to get that removed, how "happy" would you be for her to get a slap on the wrist and allowed to go home? I'd be furious.


People are far too lenient on kids these days, allowing them to get off from punishment. Doing that, they know they're immune and continue to commit crimes and aggro.

I'd love to see these kids who commit crimes, especially serious ones, be given some solitary confinement for 2 weeks. Stripped naked, bunged into a pitch black cell and fed via a slot in the door for two weeks.

Then when they come out, tell them the next offense it's 1 month. Then 2, then 4.

Watch and see how many kids who get caught will reoffend...



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by tezzajw


You sure about that? You wouldn't have tried to personally insult my username and admit to it, if you were rational, logical and devoid of emotion.
I am positive. I have discussed the topic with logic and devoid of emotion. You on the other hand I have discussed heavily amused. I guess you caught me being emotional there. But you are not the Topic, are you?


I can't blame you for being passionate about this thread, though. It's enough to ignite mob justice when the law court has demonstrated that it has truly lost touch with the common person on the street.
Once again you result to inflating the case. Its now MOB justice. Where was the Mob Terrzza, opps nearly slipped. No mob. The only mob is see is the one forming in here crying that the law is too much of a law. Without caring to discuss the genesis or reasoning behind it. the policy that was spawned by an increasingly exasperated councils, buisnesses, citizens and Govt.


Lucky we've got ATS to try and reclaim some sanity in the world, one post at a time, huh?
Yeah, your setting it right bro. All the way down there with the Melbourne massive. So what is your plan to have these laws repealled. Do you even know how to start that? I let you google it. Its not on wiki btw. What are you going to do to handle both the incience of graffiti and those that commit the acts. Oh, warnings, oh yeah, bonds, oh yeah, fines....no wait embarrass them with community service, umm we need to get them involved in other community activities, opp can't afford 'em cause we need to clean up all the graffiti.



Yeah, far too busy looking at the big scheme of things, caught up in the numbers, money and statistics. So busy worrying about resources that you're blinded by the fact that behind every statistic there's a real person, not just a number.
i could not have said it better myself. And here are some of those people behind those stats, those figures. Thanks. Look AT IT ALL. You=ONE CASE. ONE INDIVIDUAL. ONE SENTENCE. ME= I see councils that can't afford to maintains equipment, parks, services. Shops that need to increase prices to cover their cleaning bills and insurance premiums. I see state Govt. clogged to their eye balls in programs, interventions, rehabs, education and prevention that has done little if anything. I see police officers booged down chasing a#$5oles that have no respect for anything or anyone else. I see courts fed up with warnings, warnings, more warnings, fines that aren't payed, more fines that are never payed, 3 month good behaviour bonds, the 6, 12 and the community service. Thats what I see. Open your eyes. There are real reasons for these laws. Yet no one wants to discuss these in an honest way.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by noonebutme
 


"People are far too lenient on kids these days"

Are you saying she should have received more than 3 months for her first offence?

"I'd love to see these kids who commit crimes, especially serious ones, be given some solitary confinement for 2 weeks. Stripped naked, bunged into a pitch black cell and fed via a slot in the door for two weeks."

How Pedophilic of you...



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by Europe
OMG why is everyone here so stupid, lesson number one that was thought to me, If I break the law I go to jail, no if's or but's about it, regardles of wether or not I think the law is stupid.
She broke the law, she goes to jail, simple as, and if i was the owner of the business that she vandalised i would bring her to small claims court when she gets out of jail.


Could have picked many similar quotes in this thread.

By this logic, the UK court system should be locking everyone in the country up each and every sunday, as it is law in the UK to practice archery every sunday.

Just because a law exists, doesn't make it righteous or even sensible to put someone into jail for 'breaking' it.

I'm sure we are all criminals at some point in our lives. I certainly have been many times and most likely will be many more.

I am completely stunned by the amount of compassionless, non-sensical, hypocritical, fascist posts on this thread. Truly sad.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
I am positive. I have discussed the topic with logic and devoid of emotion. You on the other hand I have discussed heavily amused. I guess you caught me being emotional there. But you are not the Topic, are you?


The very fact that in your next paragraph you say this:

Where was the Mob Terrzza, opps nearly slipped.

Just can't let it go eh mate? You think it's funny sitting in your chair making fun of other peoples usernames? Quite childish in my opinion....
Oh and your off topic there too mate, two wrongs don't make a right - just a heads up



opp can't afford 'em cause we need to clean up all the graffiti.


How about reallocating the $40,000 odd that it would cost to incarcerate people for 3 months, and put it to this use? Hmm?

I honestly couldn't be bothered reading through the rest of what I am sure is just more drivel from an out-of-touch pencil pusher who has the same amount of compassion as a fox does to his next meal.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
I am positive. I have discussed the topic with logic and devoid of emotion. You on the other hand I have discussed heavily amused. I guess you caught me being emotional there. But you are not the Topic, are you?

If I'm not the topic, then why did you devote one of your posts to quoting me?

Damn right I'm emotional in this thread. It's a travesty that this teenager was sentenced to three months jail for writing her name on a wall.



Yeah, your setting it right bro. All the way down there with the Melbourne massive.

Here's what I've done to push this injustice worldwide - I posted the thread and with help from debating with you and a few others, it's reached front page on ATS as a hot topic link.

Every post helps to expose how ridiculous this decision was, to more people, across the world. I couldn't have done it without you!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:24 AM
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To which the magistrate had the perfect opportunity of using common sense, wisdom and compassion by helping ONE person correct her ways by taking responsibility for her actions.
Once again you seem to believe that this crime should only be ruled from the criminals prespective and must consider her history as the gauge by which her punishment is decided. While this is great for the criminal, how does the law serve the people, protect their property and their freedoms and liberties and ensure that these are not violated routinely at great cost to them only, this is its real purpose. How do you resolve this tezza?


Facing up to your actions by apologising, fixing them and paying for them, as positive reinforcement is far better than jail. Remember, atlasastro, she wrote her name on a wall.
I agree. Anything is better than Jail. Remember, she broke the LAw. Remember she damaged someone elses property. Remember, this is a ,assive problem that is costing us resources that should be used for far greater purposes. Remember that, turning the other cheek has not worked. We are just getting slapped twice in relation to graffiti and asked to foot the bill. It just that sometimes we as a society ask our Govt. and our courts to slap back.


[sarcasm]
The stupid teenager should have used blackboard chalk, instead of a texta, then she might have only got one month jail. She could even have used a bucket of water to clean the 'damage'. No wait, buskers draw on city streets with chalk all of the time and people pay them to do it.[/sarcasm]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:26 AM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 


"Remember she damaged someone elses property."

No she didn't...

She Defaced someone else's property.

Nice try though!



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