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Graffiti girl jailed for first offence

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posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by LeTan
reply to post by RFBurns
 


Heh, I thought this was a discussion site. I'm just stating what I believe and my opinions and questioning others on their's.

I think if this site or the people here had the power to reach the world as you claim they think they do, we would probably have revolution by tomorrow.


I didnt claim anything. Someone else did and I was simply refering to what they said. Read the thread and see who actually made the statement.

People dont need a forum to invoke change in their legal system, what they need to do is act in the appropriate arena to bring that change, and it certianly isnt in an online forum.


Cheers!!!!

[edit on 3-2-2009 by RFBurns]




posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:17 AM
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reply to post by RFBurns
 

Considering that you don't know me, who I am or what I do, for you to assume that I have the time or resources to start a grass roots street campaign to help her is rather ill-informed.

As I have stated before, spreading information on a public forum, such as ATS, is MY WAY of pointing out what's happened to her.

You do it your way, I'll do it my way and other people can do it their way.

As you can see, I've linked to a couple of follow up stories, even the one that supports the court's decision by her own grandmother. Whether or not I can or can't do more is not your business and I don't care to explain to you what I do or why I do it.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
When was the last time any of you have seen a government official who creates laws hang around a conspiracy site, much less a judge or city council or group of personal rights lawyers?


How about this guy?

Jesse Ventura



I would think you would be surprised at how many people read a site such as this. They don't have to post you know, they can still read!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
Tezza's response i believe is a warning, pay costs and clean the graffiti off. been there, done that, hence the new laws.

Completely and entirely misleading.

Please show me records of where Cheyene Back has been caught, paid her costs and cleaned graffitti prior to this?

Sorry, it's not a case of been there, done that, when it's her first offence.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:21 AM
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Ah I thought you were addressing everyone in general. Well, I mean really, I agree we can disagree with the treatment of this particular case all we want, but we probably wont have any hand in the outcome or change of.

However there's something building up on these threads, and it seems subtle.. but in actuallity its pretty plain to see. And that is discontent about how our world is run in modern times. It just fuels the fire. I see these threads not as immediate detonation, but steam filling the gauge.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by LeTan]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


And This Guy... (Read his articles on Lew Rockwell's site)

(Image courtesy of Goatmilk)



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by tezzajw
reply to post by RFBurns
 

Considering that you don't know me, who I am or what I do, for you to assume that I have the time or resources to start a grass roots street campaign to help her is rather ill-informed.


If something is that important to you, you will make the time. Your spending enough of it here that during this time, I could have written a letter, made a few phone calls, and got in touch with a few attourneys to get some advice.



Originally posted by tezzajw
As I have stated before, spreading information on a public forum, such as ATS, is MY WAY of pointing out what's happened to her.


I will grant you that, you are spreading information in a public forum. But thats not all your spreading and makes the key information you are trying to spread biased. Is that your way of doing things?



Originally posted by tezzajw
You do it your way, I'll do it my way and other people can do it their way.


Well you are entitled to that, and I am not stopping you. I am merely trying to make a suggestion. As you said, its being done your way.

Good luck.



Originally posted by tezzajw
As you can see, I've linked to a couple of follow up stories, even the one that supports the court's decision by her own grandmother. Whether or not I can or can't do more is not your business and I don't care to explain to you what I do or why I do it.


No one, much less me, is expecting you to explain anything, but when you post in a public forum, it makes it EVERYONE's buisness friend. I can only try to suggest something that might actually work. Take it as you wish to take it.


Good luck.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:26 AM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


Unfortunatley, Jesse Ventura isnt a citizen of Austrailia, and cant really do very much for the cause of changing the law there.

Can you list someone who is actually from Austrailia who is involved with government and has hung around forums like this one?



Cheers!!!!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by Kryties

Umm, yes we do! Now you are just making things up! It's just that our solutions differ from yours and you cannot seem to accept that, hence you continue to bring up the same questions attempting to send this argument into an infinite loop so as to hide the fact that you're in over your head here.



[edit on 3/2/2009 by Kryties]
It would be great for you to link the posts that discuss how these laws were generated, I know my posts will be there, but you and tezza have yet to explain or argue why these new laws are unjust, not needed and should not be enforced except to just say that. I accept your arguements, but they are old. These LAWS are NEW. Your solutions have been tested. These LAWS are now. Its my arguement that has been ignored while Tezza and yourself only offer out rage and express need for tolerance. I also ask why this issue should ne simplified to this one case when clearly it has much broader implications and intention for the NSW state as a whole. I will accept that you may not have the necessary temprement to see the need to take a broader and more comprehensive look at this situation and that this relegates your focus more on the outrage that has resulted from one incident in our extremely busy local courts that deal with matter like this with alarming regularity with often less harsh sentences.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:30 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
If something is that important to you, you will make the time. Your spending enough of it here that during this time, I could have written a letter, made a few phone calls, and got in touch with a few attourneys to get some advice.

See, that's what you could have done. I do it differently. My PC allows me to open more than one window, so don't think that my eyes are exclusively glued to this thread all of the time. Don't presume to know what time I might/not have or what I am doing in between posts. I type fast. Faster than you think, so that saves me time.



I will grant you that, you are spreading information in a public forum. But thats not all your spreading and makes the key information you are trying to spread biased. Is that your way of doing things?

Absolutely. Of course I have a biased opinion. I'm not even trying to consider why a teenager was given a three month jail sentence for writing her name on a wall.

People have free will, supposedly, they are free to disagree and join in. You've been keeping the thread alive, even after you pledged to leave it way back in the early pages.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by RFBurns
 


You asked a question mate, and I answered it. I can think of several Aussie law-makers and politicians off the top of my head that may look at sites such as this one, but I cannot be sure because they do not admit it - and given the amount of derision and heckling that would invite to themselves from the rest of the law/politic community I do not blame them.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by atlasastro
but you and tezza have yet to explain or argue why these new laws are unjust,

We've been showing why this law is unjust for the past 15 pages. Maybe you should reread the thread?

A girl getting a three month jail sentence for writing her name on a wall is not just.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:34 AM
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reply to post by LeTan
 


I will be the last to claim that everything is peachy hunky dorey when it comes to judicial systems all over the world. No doubt they need to be fixed.

Part of discussing an issue like this one is to not just repetively shout the action of the court is wrong, but also discuss ways to perhaps change how they punish offenses like this young lady is charged with. Its far more productive than to pick sides and throw mud back and forth over personal feelings about it.

Thats just my opinion and is how I would be approaching this issue. Asking for suggestions, getting ideas and comming up with a plan to begin action to change the laws.

Its the same thing here in the USA. If citizens here dont speak with their representatives and senators, then those representatives just do what they think best and laws end up getting passed that people dont like. Well as the old saying goes..."where were you".

This might surprise a few members here but I actually think the judgement itself is definately byond the scope of the offense. What I stand by firmly, is the fact that the law was broken by this individual. I did not write the law there in Sydney, I just believe that the law should be obeyed and enforced by the legal system. I can dislike the sentance all day long, but that doesnt change my position on the fact that the law was broken.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:35 AM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 

I believe this is the punishment that you would see fit for her.
read the posts.


Facing up to your actions by apologising, fixing them and paying for them, as positive reinforcement is far better than jail. Remember, atlasastro, she wrote her name on a wall.
post by tezzajw

Misrepresented?
Apology anyone!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:36 AM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


Your answer would have been far more credible had you used a patron of your own country instead of a controversial politician of the USA.

Sorry but that was your choice to pick Ventura.


Cheers!!!!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:39 AM
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This thread hits home for me, as I recently endured a six month sentence in Santa Rita Jail (Alameda County, East Bay- California) last year for graffiti/vandalism charges. '594' for you police code junkies.

I was... rather, still am a very prolific graffiti writer. I traveled extensively throughout the US, South America, Canada, and Europe to put my artwork up in all of the 'wrong' places. Public transit, freight trains, back alleys and track sides, billboards, rooftops, soundwalls, dumpsters and bathrooms... the world is my canvas. Always will be. Subsequently, I caught a case in Alameda County thanks to an old roomate who knew too much (snitch) and I was charged with three felonies...

Obviously I have a lot to say on this topic, with some much needed inside insight- but I'm tired. I worked a 'legal' mural for 10 hours yesterday and have not caught up on sleep. Also, surprisingly, I'd rather not be entirely anonymous when I post my thoughts on this...

I'll create a handle when I wake up in the AM to continue my tale.

Peace, - Neurock Ones.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:40 AM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 


Answer this tezza. Have you since day one of this issue written any letter or email or made a phone call or even threw a rock at the halls of justice about this matter?

I am sure that there are many others there in Austrailia that feel the way you do. I would think so. Perhaps it wont be that big of a time consuming effort as you think. Maybe someone has already started a petition, a "grass roots" effort to change this judgement.

It might be worth finding out...since you can have mutiple windows open. Give it a try at least. I would.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
but also discuss ways to perhaps change how they punish offenses like this young lady is charged with.


Like Tezza said above, we've been trying to do just that for over 16 pages now, and yet we keep getting hung up on the first bit because of armchair judges and basement gods.

Problem: 3 Months jail is extreme disproportionate response.

Solution: Community Service, educational schemes, more areas designed for kids to go and have something to do rather than sit around bored night after night dreaming up things to do themselves. (Hint: This bit is the solutions we have been attempting to say but keep getting caught up in circular arguments by said people above).


Your answer would have been far more credible had you used a patron of your own country instead of a controversial politician of the USA.

Sorry but that was your choice to pick Ventura.


This is a prime example of a circular argument designed to bring this thread off topic because people have differing opinions to yours.


Also, I know this is off topic but it is bugging the crap out of me.....Australia is not spelt 'Austrailia'. I know it's an innocent mistake but please note there is no extra 'i' in Australia



[edit on 3/2/2009 by Kryties]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
This might surprise a few members here but I actually think the judgement itself is definately byond the scope of the offense.

Huh? It took you 15 pages to admit that we are right? Why bother arguing for that long?



What I stand by firmly, is the fact that the law was broken by this individual.

That's not a problem we can all see that. She wrote her name on a wall. I'd call it an error of judgement more than breaking a law. Still, we can agree that she did do something that she shouldn't have.



I did not write the law there in Sydney, I just believe that the law should be obeyed and enforced by the legal system.

The law has failed, it's excessive (you agree) but you still think it should be obeyed? Ok... I'll be chewing on that logic bone all night long.



I can dislike the sentance all day long, but that doesnt change my position on the fact that the law was broken.

We all agree that she 'broke the law' and you also admit and agree that the sentence was excessive.

So where we differ is that because it's a written law you think it should be BLINDLY followed. Interesting. Pulling your strings, justice is done (Quote from Metallica). If I type what I really think I'll be warned, so I'll leave it at that.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by tezzajw]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:44 AM
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Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by RFBurns
but also discuss ways to perhaps change how they punish offenses like this young lady is charged with.


Like Tezza said above, we've been trying to do just that for over 16 pages now, and yet we keep getting hung up on the first bit because of armchair judges and basement gods.

Problem: 3 Months jail is extreme disproportionate response.

Solution: Community Service, educational schemes, more areas designed for kids to go and have something to do rather than sit around bored night after night dreaming up things to do themselves. (Hint: This bit is the solutions we have been attempting to say but keep getting caught up in circular arguments by said people above).


You and tezza are missing the point. You wont get any change in the law or judgment for this young lady by voicing that desire for the change here at ATS. Im not sure how to explain that in a simpler way.

I grant both you and tezza for all this effort, its credible and admirable. But if your expecting any change in the legal system in Sydney Austrailia, it wont happen from the bowles of thousands of threads at ATS. No disrespect to ATS, but ATS does not have the entire country of Austrailia visiting it and reading this thread.

That is just an unfortunate fact.

So whats the obvious move? I think I already pointed that out.



Cheers!!!!



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