11 yr Old Tasered In School

reply to post by amazed


Society cant do the job of her parents nor should they be expected to obviously this behavior stems from her home life. And society can only deal with the consequences as best we can.

There was no need in tasering her, like it was said near the top, the girl could have been sorted out a different way instead of having a couple of hundered volts of electricity put into her body.

LOL... and i forgot why i didnt go on ats anymore.
jesus, you know that taser shock did less harm to her than a tackle or restraint would have. and the feeling is quite painful yes but not agonising, its more like you feel really worn out instantly than a burning pain. Thats because they have a high voltage but a low ampage so they focus on causing muscle spasms rather than pain. And before people ask YES i have been tasered, i am an english officer and i was tasered as an example in our training course.
all in all the child deserved it and it was entirely neccesary.

reply to post by newcommer92

the girl could have been sorted out a different way instead of having a couple of hundered volts of electricity put into her body.

Please give us details of how you would have handled the situation differently:

You arrive to a violence call. You exit the car and are told the girl is out of control and has attacked a teacher. You try to question the girl and instead of cooperating, she slaps you hard in a moment of rage. You have weapons on your uniform that could be used by an assailant to harm you, and you have been trained to prevent that from happening at all costs. You are now under attack.

There is no time to think. Quickly, what do you do?

TheRedneck

Originally posted by newcommer92
There was no need in tasering her, like it was said near the top, the girl could have been sorted out a different way instead of having a couple of hundered volts of electricity put into her body.

Yeah, and it didn't cause permanent damage. It simply forced her to COWER DOWN! Think of the poor kid she was bullying and trying to push into traffic. Do you think it was the first time she bullyied much much smaller 11 year olds? Or kids younger than herself?

I bet you the kids that she has been picking on were damn glad someone finally did something about it.

Seems odd. Don't cops who respond to a violence call usually come in pairs of two? Was her partner just standing around? It's not hard with police training to hold a child down, especially if there is another police officer assisting.

I agree with above posts that there could have been better methods, police are trained in self defence and lockdown submissions. At least when I went to an academy for a field trip when i was a kid they did. However, trying to push other children into ongoing traffic is just as cruel.

reply to post by TheRedneck


I found an article which states the child has a mental disability and is emotionally as a 5 year old. The school was well aware that this child was mentally disabled.

www.wftv.com...

Good question, what would I have done differently?

How about calling a parent who the child trusts to come into the school to talk with the child?

Or as I have had to do before with a mentally disabled child, I sat in the corner of the room away from the child and calmly talked. After about 40 minutes of me sitting quietly in the corner, calmly talking with him, he crawled into my lap in tears saying how sorry he was.

Yes he did receive a punishment, which included a written apology. He had to "think" about why what he did was wrong and what would be the appropriate way to handle a similar situation in the future. Yep, took more than just ten minutes, yep took a lot of energy on my part and intelligent thought as to how to calm him down without anyone getting hurt. I feel the child was better off for the way I handled the situation than if I had tasered him.

Violence, begets violence. I heard that somewhere or another.

My husband worked for a group home for mentally disabled teens and adults. He was taught how to hold someone down without harming them if they became violent. I have seen small people, hold down much larger people, with no one receiving any injuries what so ever. It's all in the technique.

Sigh, so we have a mentally disabled child in school, who is overweight and is most likely teased and bullied by the other children. I do not know for sure that this is the case, but it is likely. If this is the case, do any of you seriously think that the bullies will get any kind of punishment what so ever? I don't, I have seen it far too often. Far too often in our society, as long as the bullying is done quietly or hidden, no one wants to step in.

Though, I do not know the full situation, maybe, the disabled girl is the bully.

Here is what schools advocate that those who are being bullied do, and it does not include protecting yourself. Ignore the bully, Move away from the bully, Ask the bully to stop, Tell the bully to stop, and as a last resort, Tell an adult.

Personally, I think the FIRST advise should be to tell an adult, so that the bully can be punished for their inappropriate behavior.

reply to post by amazed

How about calling a parent who the child trusts to come into the school to talk with the child?

You still do not get the situation. The girl was attacking the policewoman. Now, I suppose she could have just asked her to stop hitting so she could call her parents, and perhaps the girl would have realized the error of her ways and stopped politely long enough to allow the policewoman to make the call and for her parents to arrive before continuing her attack, but since we're talking reality here, I doubt that would have happened.

The girl was out of control. The girl weighed 160-170 pounds (almost as much as I do). The girl could have posed a serious threat to the officer or to those around her.

In your example, in which I admire your patience and methods, you were in no danger of attack. The child was small enough to crawl into your lap. While even that small a child can be worrisome if they are out of control, there is little chance you will be knocked to the floor by them.

The danger of being physically knocked down was real in the situation we are discussing.

Now, as to the girl's mental capacity, this brings up an even more troubling question: why was she even in a school with other kids that she could endanger? Why was she not being given some sort of special care/education in line with her disability? Perhaps she did have a reasonable excuse to be enraged, since she was being forced to compete and interact unfairly with other children who were much more mature. But that is not the fault of the policewoman as much as it is the school and the parents.

I stand by my assessment of the situation at this time. The tasing was quite probably justified under the situation, although it would have been preferable if another method could have been used to defuse the situation.

As to how to handle a bully, heh, that's funny. Ignore them? Please. The best way to handle a bully when young is to give as good as you get. It worked great for me. Ignoring them only made things worse.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by amazed
reply to post by TheRedneck

 

I found an article which states the child has a mental disability and is emotionally as a 5 year old. The school was well aware that this child was mentally disabled.

Says it all I rest my points and case, and all who say she should be tasered are therefore supporting child abuse, and the same attitude to disabled children that the Nazi's had.

Why not abort them in the womb too to stop disabled people from "troubling" the good Adult Cops and teachers.

Thought as much about the description, have dealt with situations like this many times on my own, never mind with other people like teachers.

No Force no violence.

She was Ill and the fact that other press reports say she has been charged for battery on the policelady is absolutely a crime in itself as well.

I think they should Taser blind people in public by roads too dont you who supported this?

I mean they might walk out in the road with a head cold or in a rush and cause a crash.

Bad disabled girl, Bad girl.

Put her in a straitjacket I say.

Kind Regards,

Elf

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Sounds like you're trying to make the case against main streaming kids with disabilities.

Personally in major metropolitan areas it may serve disabled children if they built special schools for them so that they could get the help they need.

I'm curious, how to you tell that someone has a mental impairment by looking at them as they're attacking you?

In general terms, I don't think that kids should be tazed. I wasn't there and won't pass judgment on that person.

reply to post by MischeviousElf

the fact that other press reports say she has been charged for battery on the policelady

Yeah, that's going over the line. After the incident there is no immediate danger. Her disability should be considered and she should be released to the care of her parents or some other persons who are able to help her.

But on the rest of your post, I think you're carrying this to an extreme. No one here is condoning tasering blind people for being blind, or condoning abortion of the disabled because they are disabled. All I am saying is that, in this one isolated circumstance, the actions of the policewoman appeared to be justifiable.

Again, I ask the question, what would you have done differently? Please bear in mind the circumstances that were underway at the start of the incident. The physical actions of the girl, her size, the surroundings, none of this can be changed to support a more politically correct scenario. You just arrived on the scene of a violence call over someone who is out of control and you are struck by a 160 pound person who is apparently the perpetrator you were called in about. Under those circumstances, what do you do?

TheRedneck

reply to post by Wildbob77


mmm

You have not read the rest of my posts on this thread.

I believe totally in main streaming all sections of society together.

Its called in a technical sense Social Role Valorisation.

I am being sarcastic to the supporters of this action on the child.

I worked as part of a ressetlement team to get children and adults with very agressive behavioural problems out of secure units to the community.

I remember taking one client of just adult age who I worked with from a teenage years, on his first holiday abroad, and in the multidisciplinary meeting, Case, Key, Social workers psychiatrists etc putting reason and blocks and scenario's down as to why he couldnt do it.

He did with another very talented and passionate collegue, and myself.
They wouldnt let us fly lol, so we drove him to France Eurodisney.

No problems, and he had been under a secure setting a couple of just before.

For those who object to main streaming look at Rednecks posts and others here, who question the reason between them being in the school.

Maybe I was a bit sharp in my post, however it is a pet hate of mine, the blame always on the victim of mental Health issues.

Find the solution and don't create more problems, be pro active and only safely and lovingly re active when necessary to protect their safety and those around them.

People are lazy and dont want to work hard, or put the time, energy and commitment such people as the OP, this child needs.

Kind Regards,

Elf

I wonder how many people who are all for treating children as adults in cases such as these are the same people complaining about grown men marrying 11 year olds in other countries. I must state here that i am not advocating child marriage, but i would like to hear from the pro taser crowd to see if you think children should be treated as adults in all situations, or only when it is convenient to your viewpoint?

I know some of you are saying, like, ok what if it was my kid, would i want them tasered? HELL YES!

But never mind that anyway, because i was looking at this from a different perspective, that is if my kid, was the kid that was being pushed into traffic. Well in that case, I'll tell you one thing, that bully would have gotten a hell of a lot worse then a tasering. I'd make sure of it.

reply to post by TheRedneck


As stated in other posts Redneck, she was in a room with a door, a staff member and policelady present.

Do the math, isolate from others, which the room did, talk and talk, laugh, know her triggers, distraction, throw a book behind her when she looks restrain, even throw a cup full of water (just water) in her face, Lead and Pace, become in a controlled way more manic than her while someone flanks her, bribe her with her favourite sweets, I could go on and on.

get the policelady to bring her parents, no need in any way whatsoever as this was after the road incident for the Tazer.

As I said the kid was out of control trying to get some control, and she pushed the ego of the Policelady who then Tazered a 11 yr child who is mentally disabled, that is worse than any behaviour of the child.

Hurt ego and pride not mental health issues.

Elf.

What a fat 11yr old... damn..

reply to post by MischeviousElf

Maybe I missed something, Elf, but are you stating that the tazing happened in an enclosed room? I have seriously not seen anything to that effect, so please correct my ignorance if I passed over it. I had assumed it happened upon the policewoman's arrival, especially since some of the other children reported seeing her lying on the ground crying afterwards.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

Maybe I missed something, Elf, but are you stating that the tazing happened in an enclosed room?

An Orange County deputy said she had no choice but to shock an 11-year-old girl with a Taser on Thursday morning in an elementary school classroom.

www.wftv.com...

Happened in a classroom.

reply to post by jam321

Thanks for the link. If it had been posted earlier, my apologies to everyone for missing it.

It still reinforces my position that the officer shouldn't be punished for making the call. I quote from the article,

The girl at Moss Park Elementary punched the deputy in the nose so hard the deputy went to the hospital.

The school resource officer, Orange County Deputy Donna Hudepohl, tried to take Thaliamar to the principal's office and that's when the child started swinging, hitting the officer in the nose.

"She actually spoke to the student, told her multiple times to come. Even after the student punched her, she still continued to try and make the arrest without having to taze her. And that obviously wasn't working," explained Corporal Susan Soto, Orange County Sheriff's Office.

Source for all: www.wftv.com...

It sounds to me like the officer showed a great deal of restraint in handling the girl, even after sustaining injuries. What again worries me is this one quick quote from the mother:

"The school knows pretty well that my daughter is like a 5-year-old,"

Source: www.wftv.com...

She knew her daughter didn't belong there, and the school knew her daughter didn't belong there. There had been earlier disciplinary incidents (read the link, I'm tired of quoting ). Can we not as a society afford these children the help they need? Where is the compassion that screams "This girl needs more than a simple public school!"?

I'm beginning to blame the parents and the school system for allowing this powder keg to explode.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
The Child was tasered not to stop her pushing the child in the road it was later.

Yes we all know that. The video and report states that right off.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
It was when she was in the classroom and the teacher could not control her, so they called the Police/Security who obviously failed to restrain her properly, and then after being punched Tasered the child.

This was a case of hitting back as such by the police/security, who lost his cool after being struck.

No..this was a case of a completely out of control kid who went way byond the accepted behavior line, for both the school and authority.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
If the child was in the classroom, why didn't they they leave her in there, block the door until she calmed down, talked her down, or waited until two people security/police could restrain her properly.

Based on the video and report, the school did try to calm her down, and this kid ended up shoving a desk around and spitting.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
She had a temper tantrum and is a big girl so tazer her?

The description of "temper tantrum" is something seen from a 4 year old, you would think that an 11 year old would be grown out of that baby bottle.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Sounds like she has emotional or psychological problems at the time so being ill/sick punish her?

Oh stop that BS. Thats reaching way over the fire expecting not to get a burn. She was tased becasue she went wild, hit a cop, and acted far byond the usual level of most 11 yr old girls.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Lack ot training and the security/police are as wrong even more so as an adult and meant to be trained than a big Kid having a temper tantrum.

Cops are not psychiatrists. Nor should they be. And this 11 yr old, huge girl that seriously out-sized the teacher having your "temper tantrum" could have been alot worse had it been allowed to continue.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
It was not done to protect anyone except IMHO except the tazerers hurt ego.

Ego? Who's ego are you referring to? Im sure that cop who started their day going to a job like anyone else, and that teacher and other students, expected all this to happen and that cop was just waiting nearby for that phone call so she could demonstrate her taser ego.

Make some sense here.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
I am just short of 6 ft, and not bulky slim but strong as such, I have as said elsewhere with someone of similiar size restrained many times, once an 18 stone man, who had diagnosed psychiatric issues, was about 6ft4 ins and was in a rage of Caveman proportions. In public, quickly, easily and safely, no harm done, he burnt out.

Its just training and the right mental attitude. Two trained people can restrain even a Seal or the SAS types if you know what they are doing and are close enough to get contact at the same time, (lol with the sas types obviously without them knowing you are just about to or intend to

) 2 secs later they are on the ground, unable to move without causing themselves pain, not face down but sitting and just struggle till their muscles burn and throat is sore from screaming at the frustration of lack of mobility of any limbs, or head without causing themselves pain.

Its sick what is happening in the lack of training for security and police officers for aggressive behaviour.

OK had this cop dog piled onto this kid, what would be the complaint then??? What if this poor kid had been pounced on and taken to the ground and was injured or went to reach for that cop's gun? Do you even consider those potentials could happen? I am sure that the cop did, and considered alot more, all in a split few seconds time and choose the appropriate course of action.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
IMHO this officer should not work in a school again.

Send him to the hood.

Elf.

The cop doesnt work for the school. The cop works for the city and responded to a disturbance call and was accompanied by school security personnel. School security is quite limited in what they can do, hence they had to call the cops.

I think the action was appropriate for the circumstances. And its time that people who do such activity and go byond the lines of civil behavior, be it a 40 yr old or an 11 yr old, be held responsible for those actions.

Its time to stop pampering these kids. They grew out of them diapers a long time ago.




Cheers!!!!