Scientists Not So Sure 'Doomsday Machine' Won't Destroy World

Pi equals exactly three.

FOXNEWS

by Peter Boson

Scientists at CERN are increasingly concerned by the presence of hitherto unknown particles blamed for the LHC operators not being able to shut the collider down. These unknown, highly energetic particles are suspected of supplying electrical power to the installation after the CERN scientists decided to shut it down citing safety due to the unexpected experiment result.

Robert Aymar, director general of CERN, will ask the Congress tomorrow to appropriate $125 billion to finance Operation ShutDown, an emergency procedure designed by Peter Higgs and Stephen Hawking.

I'm sick and tired of these bailouts. Just nuke it.

reply to post by stander


Do you have a link for this story, stander? I can't find it. Thanks.

reply to post by Reaper106


I looked into it a bit further and tried to edit my post from before to include this but something happened to all the text. I'm sure it had to do with the alternate universe the LHC opened up in my toilet. Anyway this is cool.


Okay, you know how the Large Hadron Collider had to be shut down because of of a helium leak? Well, what if this is evidence that we're about to witness a successive chain of events that will result in the LHC never having the opportunity to destroy the Earth as we know it?
It's a classic case of anthropic principle meets the Many World Hypothesis. We can't observe our non-existence; we can only observe our ongoing existence, no matter how improbable or absurd.
Given that the LHC was only recently ignited, can we already make this inference?

Anthropic principle
Many World Hypothesis

If I try to grasp the whole thing I start smelling pine knots burning. What I think this means is that the LHC cannot run because it opens up other dimensions. I'll leave the link of course. I say if at first you don't succeed try, try again. Fire it up. We aint afraid of no stinking black holes.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by jackflap]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
What planet are you from? The same one that 15 year old kid is from that keeps comparing this to the dangers of driving a car? Oh wait you compared it to the chances of being stuck by lightning. You have lost all credibility.

Like I said a second ago this can wait until it can be done with 100% safety to mankind and life as we know it.

How is comparing the odds of a lightning strike to this making me lose credibility? If the odds of being struck by lightning are so low, and we don't all walk around worried by it, then why exactly should we be worried about the LHC? If your answer is goign to be about it destroying the earth then switch it to the odds of an asteroid hitting earth. Most people walking around don't really think about it.

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Says YOU, and just WHO are you? I am familiar with string theory and relativity but if Scientists are so sure they know what is going to happen and if their is a remote chance they are wrong even the slightest, then it is prudent to lean on the side of caution. Do we NEED this experiment? If yes then why? and how in the hell have we survived all these years without it so far?

Again i state that leaning on the side of caution our entire existence would not have led us this far, we would be back in the steam age. If you're happy there then all power to you but i'm not.

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Where in the hell did you come up with that figure? The probability of someone getting hit by lightning is calculable because we have statistics on it but this we have never done this before on this scale moreover the risk isn't someone getting hit by lightning and possibly dying, THIS IS THE WHOLE PLANET SOME SAY. That's a little more then just a mere lightning bolt and the Scientists against this have some compelling arguments where all you have done is dropped some big words like string theory and ridiculed reaper in a condescending post talking like you think you know what you are talking about but have completely left REASONS for your position out of the dialogue.

Odds of being struck by lightning are estimated between 1 in 20,000 and 1 in 600,000. That is where i got those figures and any web search will throw it up for you if you take the time to look. The odds of the LHC destroying earth are also calculable. We can calculate the energies involved very precisely. I have given many reasons you just chose not to read them. My post was not condescending, at least it wasn't meant that way. I've had to repeat myself an awful lot and in truth i'm getting tired of science as a whole being held back so much. It's just frustration you're sensing not an arrogant self belief.

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Yeah?? sure sciguy SHOW ME! Show me all the stats we have had where a safe doomsday experiment of this magnitude has been done without a single mishap. You talk as if the Atomic Bomb was a cinch without a single side effect no regrets. WE COULD DO WITHOUT NUKES AND I AM CERTAIN WE DON'T "NEED" this crap either

You know i opened google to go find the odds but then realised it would be pointless. No matter what i say you'll just take the opinion of the tiny minority of scientists over the majority. The odds of this thing going wrong are determined by powers, by that i mean powers in their 10's. but hey the odds don't matter with you i don't think so whats the point in arguing it anymore?

Oh you're certain huh? You had a go at me for being certain and furthermore we couldn't do without this i'm afraid. If you believe that then you don't understand the issue and that isn't condescension it's just how it is. This experiment will tell us if we're on the right path in physics, if we aren't then it will lead to a complete demolishing of many of the physics principles we hold dear. It could have implications for space travel, enregy production and other things we can't even imagine. So yes, it is needed.

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Now thats just silly.

Actually that's not all i said now is it if you take a look back at my other replies you will see that. I didn't type the same thing again because i didn't think i needed to. I will however do it for you as you are so very angry about it.

The average person walking around doesn't know enough to ave an opinion on this experiment. They will only hear the words "possibly destroy earth" coming from the tabloid newspapers and react in that classic knee jerk reaction and have it shut down. That is why the inhabitants of earth shouldn't be asked. If we told the average person that antimatter is being produced and flying round a particle accelerator i am betting a lot of people would see it as dangerous.

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Now you are the silly one especially when you start talking to us as "the residents of earth" as if you were some alien.

Erm how should i refer to everyone on the planet? I count myself as a resident of earth as this is my home, where i reside. Granted i don't have a choice in that matter but it's still my home. What an odd thing to pick on.

Originally posted by Aermacchi
By the way guy, when you consider all the bunk science has tried to put over us and has either been a fraud, or something that ended up killing us, poisoning us, giving us birth defects, causing cancer, killing the birds the bees the fish, WMD's and a myriad of of other improbabilities, when all you got is intellectual snobery, that doesn't convince me of jack squat and I am not impressed.

I am not so sure YOU know what YOU are talking about.

You see it as snobbery? That's not what it is, it's frustration i'm afraid and i apologise for that. Imagine waiting for the christmas present you've wanted all year and then someone tells you it's being taken away. Frustrating and disappointing right? That's all you are seeing in my posts

Science generally speaking hasn't been the cause of what you speak, it's been the government ignoring science. Take DDT as an example, a horrific chemical that many scientists spoke out against. The government made sure those scientists were ridiculed and didn't get funding.

I put my trust in the majority of scientists on this issue. The minority will always be in any situation, spouting doom and wanting attention. They have presented their case to the EU courts and scientific bodies and have been thoroughly trounced by their opposition. So if you are saying this isn't enough then we need to adust how our courts and the scientific method itself works. If peer review is no longer valid enough to accept or go ahead with something then it should be abolished.

Aermacchi

I would like to ask you a question here. If/when they turn this thing back on and if it doesn't break down again, when it doesn't destroy the world, will you change your future opinions on scientific experiments? Or in future, when some other grand experiment is devised and someone claims it will destroy the entire earth, will you be listening to pockets of doom instead of the majority?

[edit on 29-1-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

You know all those black holes around the galaxy and universe? Well, they were actual advanced civilizations that performed this very same experiment

Anyone else think it's a coincidence that 2012 is approaching? I mean, what if there is another failure, and consequently another series of required repairs. It's not entirely unrealistic to assume that their successful implementation might possibly be extended for another few years...

[edit on 29-1-2009 by cognoscente]

This may be of interest it's strange there has been a few storys about the LHC in the last few days

In a truly frightening study, physicists at the University of Oxford have identified a massive miscalculation that makes the LHC safety assurances more or less invalid (abstract). The focus of their work is not the safety of particle accelerators per se but the chances of any particular scientific argument being wrong. 'If the probability estimate given by an argument is dwarfed by the chance that the argument itself is flawed, then the estimate is suspect,' say the team. That has serious implications for the LHC, which some people worry could generate black holes that will swallow the planet.

Source - slashdot

As for the 2012 thing I don't put any credence with that as a prediction but it could be possible something might happen at any time the experiments are taking place we may run them fine for 5 or 10 years with no consequences then have something take us completely of guard.

The RHIC Fireball incident disturbs me as they still haven't been able to explain what happened and what it actually was. It's even possible we have already went to far and our timer is running down as we speak.

Hopefully not though but it does show that unexpected and unexplained phenomena is likely.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Teknikal]

Originally posted by jtma508
Yea, but they were saying the same thing during the Manhattan Project. Some scientists believed it was possible that the fission reaction they were about to trigger would create a black hole that could destroy the earth.

Actually to break the tension, Fermi began offering anyone listening a wager on whether or not the bomb would ignite the atmosphere, and if so, whether it would merely destroy New Mexico or destroy the world. There was never any mention of a black hole. The scientists each bet each other one dollar.
...Oppenheimer lost that bet.

Originally posted by cognoscente
Anyone else think it's a coincidence that 2012 is approaching? I mean, what if there is another failure, and consequently another series of required repairs. It's not entirely unrealistic to assume that their successful implementation might possibly be extended for another few years...

[edit on 29-1-2009 by cognoscente]

I can find no coincidence that 2012 is coming. The date in and of itself is meaningless. Just as people freaked over 2000 and when the planets all aligned in a straight line... nothing happened.
I highly doubt that anything will happen that isn't created by man.

Originally posted by Teknikal

As for the 2012 thing I don't put any credence with that as a prediction but it could be possible something might happen at any time the experiments are taking place we may run them fine for 5 or 10 years with no consequences then have something take us completely of guard.

You know i can see another thread being started in 10 years time when the proposed upgrade to the LHC, the super LHC is installed. The whole thing will start over.

EDIT

Just to lift the serious tone of the thread a little.

uk.youtube.com...

Well i like it

[edit on 29-1-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Grog have idea! Grog rub stick with stick, see what happen.

Thag say no! No rub stick! Might do black hole!

Grog think that silly. Stick no make black hole. Stick rub on stick all of time. Grog only want SEE stick rub on stick, see what happen!

But Thag say might do black hole!

Grog tell you, no black hole! Just stick and stick, and maybe fire!

BUT FIRE MIGHT DO BLACK HOLE!

No black hole Thag! Watch!

*ten minutes later.*

Grog, I Thag was wrong. You find good thing, you find how make fire!

Grog try to tell Thag. See what Grog made!

Yes, Thag learn less... wait! What Grog doing now?

Grog making square rock into round rock, see what happen! Grog think round rock might be wheel!

NO! ROUND ROCK MIGHT DO BLACK HOLE!!!

Originally posted by stander
Robert Aymar, director general of CERN, will ask the Congress tomorrow

Rolf-Dieter Heuer took office on 1st January as the new Director- General of CERN. Find out about his view of the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead for the organization:

Source: public.web.cern.ch...

I have my doubts about your story stander. It's obviously not current, but is it even real? If it's old, why is it nowhere else but this thread? Searches for exact sentences from the article only return this thread, and even searches for fox news "Peter Boson" only show this thread. I call bluff.

OMG

I cannot believe the blind trust in Scientists pon here ..
have you all learned nothing in your lifes ??

Scientists are muppet repeaters

they research anythig YOU fund and WILL give you your desired reseult in years to come IF you fund them

Its irrelevant what your outcome shoudl be it will be reached

NO matter what the science really is ...
ARe you all that naive ??LOL

I know and work wirh numerous biology and chemistry scientist
All employeed by lets say X X reseaches a subject and pays for the research

the model will run x number of years and at the end the scientists will moe or less deliver what is payed for ...
You fools have to realize this ..
Scientist will get you what you pay for (within reasons of course )
They are nothing else but paid proof ...one way or another

I pity the ignorance and plain stupidity of most people ..
Scientists need to eat ..ergo they need funding ...
They could not care less who pays or what is to be researched as long as it takes 5 years they are happy ...as it pays life , mortgage etc etc

The will proof for you or disproof anything you pay for ..
The sheer stupidity of some people really is past my rational thinking

Now if this is the 1st time you hear this iam sorry for you but this is how it goes and has gone for DECADES

Scientist are not to be trusted same as any human really ...We are all greedy selfish idiots ...
the day we start to trust Scientists blind we are lost Hello and Welcome to the Orwellian state

Now a few words as reply to all these people blindly trusting scientists

1stly our science is lies nothign but lies

You are a scientist in any field bio, chem , phy you would know this ...
Theories are put forward discussed in the scientists circle then the paper gets openly discussed and finally if the theory is accepted by the majority of scientist it will be seen as is ! A new accepted theory ...but the clue is in the title ...THEORY

There is no such thing as CONSTANTS . I hear some people saying :

The number one rule of energy still applies. You can't get more out than you put in.


yes although this seems to be true in our limited sense of science it does not mean its true ..
The same goes for our so important and untouchable CONSTANTS like gravity
We apply the gravity we understand on this planet to the universe and very often find ourself wondering how some cosmic events happen with the math for our science

We are fools and we Know nothing ..and what we think we know is from studies funded by ourselves ...we have proven in a cosmic sense NOTHING and we KNOW NOTHING
Studies have a prediced outcome one way or another and that is before they satrt ...So in a sense THEY KNOW the outcome because they know who pays ...You cannot see this ...You never thought about it ...let me assure you this is fact ....And scientists know that too ...they know who butters their toasts


I find it so amazingly stupid that we are going through life as if we had a clue
We apply our limited science and assume it to be universal because a paid study by XXX said its so


I pity mankind . Fully and wholeheartedly we are going into our doom but the scientists ..are right in front of us ,right /...they steer us , right ? because they know , right ?

last but not least i repeat ...THEY (scientists )ONLY DO AS THE FUNDING SAYS >>>understand that please and think for ONCE yourselfs !

reply to post by johnsky


"It would take the energy of an entire sun and more to create such a black hole."

Actually, no...

...It takes only the amount the energy resultant from one Human failing to account for a gravitational anomaly to conjure black holes into existence.... ;-)

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

These unknown, highly energetic particles are suspected of supplying electrical power to the installation after the CERN scientists decided to shut it down citing safety due to the unexpected experiment result.

There's your free energy, folks... If this story's true- they managed electrical energy that kept this humongous thing running after the plug was pulled. Too bad it may or may not make black holes, alternate dimensions, ect..

The LHC is Pandoras Box.

These scientists are part of a global conspiracy and should not be trusted they have their own secret agenda.

All you have to do is look at the CERN logo to see who they represent.

I found another thread that was started about the LHC being shut down because of ripples from the future right here on ATS. A very good article included. They were talking about merging the two because one of them is in the wrong place. I knew I wasn't the only one questioning the validity of a "breakdown". Anyway the thread is called (LHC) shutdown by ripples from the future. See we don't have to worry about blackholes. We just have to figure out how to get out of this time loop we are in. This thing isn't as dangerous as everyone feared. This thing isn't as dangerous as everyone feared. This thing isn't as dangerous as everyone feared. This thing............

Originally posted by wylekat
There's your free energy, folks... If this story's true- they managed electrical energy that kept this humongous thing running after the plug was pulled. Too bad it may or may not make black holes, alternate dimensions, ect..

My god, do I detect something intelligent being mentioned on this topic? Stars for you my friend as you are head and shoulders above the crowd since you think for yourself.

The controversy surrounding the LHC seems to be another home for trolls and a huge brain drain for ATS.

LHC has been covered time and time again and because someone at Fox "News" has reported on some more of the same dribble that has been previously settled, life again has been breathed into this hapless miscarriage.

I see nothing new being discussed here that hasn’t been said in the vast multitude of previous posts on this subject, other than Fox "News" has finally discovered a scientist that supports the gloom and doom scenario that has long since been debunked, and of course the above mentioned member with the free power comment.

One thing to keep in mind when dealing with probability factors in or as applied science. If you can imagine it, it then has a probability factor. Even if it contradicts everything you know about reality, it has a numerical value in the sense of probability and the simple fact that someone has imagined it, is what gives it some value, albeit miniscule, remote and/or ridiculous.

Thus is the nature of true science, so when the worlds leading scientist say that there is a possibility of the LHC causing an all consuming black hole but the chances are so small that it shouldn’t be of concern to anyone. They are being honest in a purely scientific sense, although the mention of it is nothing more than a platitude in the academic sense. But trolls and fear mongers, being what they are, will take this information, apply hyperbole, add a dash of mistrust, stir in an ample amount of ignorance and bake at 450 degrees until all those who lack a formal understanding of physics or science in general see it as an all consuming evil when in fact it is nothing more than a tuna casserole.

Woe to us all, I’m going fishing.


[edit on 1/29/2009 by eaganthorn]

[edit on 1/29/2009 by eaganthorn]