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Scientists Not So Sure 'Doomsday Machine' Won't Destroy World

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posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by Reaper106
I love science, BUT if there is even a remote chance that this thing could destroy the planet then shut that mutha down. I may be weird but I don't really feel like loosing my life just yet. Call me crazy but that is just me.


Ok again this statement, made by so many is absolutely ridiculous. You have more chance of being struck by lightning than this thing killing you. That isn't an exaggeration it's mathematically determined as such. Do you walk around everyday worried about lightning strikes? No you don't! What about being killed by a meteor? Again there is more chance of that happening to you.

All the people worried by this have simply been duped by tabloid media picking out the few scientists worried about this. Furthermore i would say the scientists up in arms about this experiment are simply looking for a little fame.



Originally posted by Reaper106
Seems to me that the risk is greater than the reward. Yeah we could learn some things or die while we are being pulled apart atom by atom.

Oh and one other thing, since they have this little project that could destroy earth should they not maybe have discussed this with the residents of earth first?


Now thats just silly.


Quite simply no. The residents of earth know very little about science as a whole. I don't know you, maybe you work at a university but if you don't, if you have normal, everyday, average friends then i set you this task. Go around and ask them to explain string theory, Einsteins E=MC2 equation, hydrostatic equilibrium. I bet you right now that most of them won't be able to. That is why we cannot ask the inhabitants of earth because you would be asking them to decide about something they have no knowledge of.

They would immediately pick up a tabloid newspaper and read the headline "We're Going To Die If You Don't Stop It Now!". Again i point to all the previous times in history that small bands of scientists were against something and could have stopped amazing progress. If the public then were exposed to tablod press as widely as they are now then this world would be a great deal behind it's current form.

The public at large don't look into things in detail, they pick the nearest sensational headline and run with it. As the old saying goes "A person is smart, people are stupid".

[edit on 28-1-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]




posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


Your right I don't walk around being scared of lightning striking me, nor do I try to invent a machine to make it strike me either.


My previous post was supposed to be a little lite hearted.. But at the same time don't you think they should be sure before they take a chance like that?



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Reaper106
 


They are sure, that's the point, the majority are very sure it won't kill us all. We are talking about a tiny little minority! The same tiny minority that thought the atomic bomb would ignite the atmosphere, the same minority that thought a nuclear react would kill everyone, the same minority that thought sending men to the moon would kill them, the same minority that thought nanotechnology would turn the earth into a grey glob of goo.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


They don't even know if Hawking radiation is real, which is required for the black hole to 'evaporate'. That is a pure theoretical speculation.

Nice of them to subject the entire world to a mere unproven mathematical speculation.

That right there is one good reason I can think of to maybe reconsider this. Again I am not against science, I love science.. just think we have to be carefull is all. We are just like little children with our limited understanding of the universe. Sometimes kids should not play with fire.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by Reaper106
 


They are sure, that's the point, the majority are very sure it won't kill us all. We are talking about a tiny little minority! The same tiny minority that thought the atomic bomb would ignite the atmosphere, the same minority that thought a nuclear react would kill everyone, the same minority that thought sending men to the moon would kill them, the same minority that thought nanotechnology would turn the earth into a grey glob of goo.

The last I had read and I admit this was a while back, they were like 98% sure or something like that. That is where my questioning the whole LHC came from. Not all the doomsday theorys.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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didnt they do the test already and nothing happend?



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by Fire Dragon
 

I thought they had started the start up process and some magnets fried. Like I said I have really not been following this to closely so I am not positive.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Ok again this statement, made by so many is absolutely ridiculous.


Says YOU, and just WHO are you? I am familiar with string theory and relativity but if Scientists are so sure they know what is going to happen and if their is a remote chance they are wrong even the slightest, then it is prudent to lean on the side of caution. Do we NEED this experiment? If yes then why? and how in the hell have we survived all these years without it so far?



You have more chance of being struck by lightning than this thing killing you.


Where in the hell did you come up with that figure? The probability of someone getting hit by lightning is calculable because we have statistics on it but this we have never done this before on this scale moreover the risk isn't someone getting hit by lightning and possibly dying, THIS IS THE WHOLE PLANET SOME SAY. That's a little more then just a mere lightning bolt and the Scientists against this have some compelling arguments where all you have done is dropped some big words like string theory and ridiculed reaper in a condescending post talking like you think you know what you are talking about but have completely left REASONS for your position out of the dialogue.




That isn't an exaggeration it's mathematically determined as such.


Yeah?? sure sciguy SHOW ME! Show me all the stats we have had where a safe doomsday experiment of this magnitude has been done without a single mishap. You talk as if the Atomic Bomb was a cinch without a single side effect no regrets. WE COULD DO WITHOUT NUKES AND I AM CERTAIN WE DON'T "NEED" this crap either




All the people worried by this have simply been duped by tabloid media picking out the few scientists worried about this. Furthermore i would say the scientists up in arms about this experiment are simply looking for a little fame.



No fame but perhaps want no blame, blame for the bad it is potentially able to bring.

Reaper said:


since they have this little project that could destroy earth should they not maybe have discussed this with the residents of earth first?



and all you got to say is



Now thats just silly.



Now you are the silly one especially when you start talking to us as "the residents of earth" as if you were some alien.

By the way guy, when you consider all the bunk science has tried to put over us and has either been a fraud, or something that ended up killing us, poisoning us, giving us birth defects, causing cancer, killing the birds the bees the fish, WMD's and a myriad of of other improbabilities, when all you got is intellectual snobery, that doesn't convince me of jack squat and I am not impressed.

I am not so sure YOU know what YOU are talking about.












[edit on 28-1-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by A NeWorlDisorder
Well, I say fire it up and if it does create an Earth eating black hole, lets all ride that great cosmic wave into the blackened depths that is the singularity. I wonder how long it would take to eat the Earth if one of these hypothetical microspopic blackholes didn't evaporate and began devouring the Earth. Minutes, days, weeks, decades? Will there be time to balance my bank book? Will there be enough time to develop a extened space flight program and launch people into deep space? Oh, so many questions.


I read somewhere that it would take about 3-4 years for one of these microscopic black holes to grow large enough to consume the earth. 2012 anyone??? hmmmmmmm



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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Fortunately for science, progression, technology, and the future prosperity of the entire human race...

...The experiment is likely to continue with or without the consent of a few chicken littles who have read too many fear mongering tabloids.

You do realize that every time you people get into a car and drive somewhere, there is a slight, slight, minute chance that you will make a mistake and cause a fatal accident.

By your own logic, it is therefor wrong for you to ever drive anywhere again, because the lives of other people on the road are not yours to risk.

Yes, people... YES, you are actually making that argument. Please stop. It's silly.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by mattifikation
Fortunately for science, progression, technology, and the future prosperity of the entire human race...


Oh yes the immediate survival of the entire human race is contingent on this experiment coming to fruition and saving the world!



You do realize that every time you people get into a car and drive somewhere, there is a slight, slight, minute chance that you will make a mistake and cause a fatal accident.

By your own logic, it is therefor wrong for you to ever drive anywhere again, because the lives of other people on the road are not yours to risk.


Apples and oranges logic is what this is about




Yes, people... YES, you are actually making that argument. Please stop. It's silly.


And like those who think they can whoop everyones ass after a few drinks talking all cocky like you are, get into that car because they too think they know everything and occasionally, more often than anyone would want to admit to, they DO kill people and THAT is taking risks we are willing to make trusting those who lucid, sharp, but not drunk and likewise not drunk with condescending arrogance thinking they can drive with no worries on their first day of driving school, only this accident is a total and the whole planet is a wreck

YES, you are actually making that argument. Please stop. It's silly.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Ok again this statement, made by so many is absolutely ridiculous. You have more chance of being struck by lightning than this thing killing you. That isn't an exaggeration it's mathematically determined as such. Do you walk around everyday worried about lightning strikes? No you don't! What about being killed by a meteor? Again there is more chance of that happening to you.


Ok this statement is absolutely ridiculous. Sure as an individual its a narrow margin to get struck by lightning. The thing is we are talking about all living things. Over 700 people alone are struck by lighting per year, can you imagine how many animals are struck too?

Those odds are nuts, with this baby ONE strike and all fall down.


You or anyone else has no right to take a chance with all life being wiped out. We can just as easily wait until we have the technology and resources to do this in space, because there is no hurry...this does not save any lives or prevent any deaths or improve our state of being. So therefore it can wait until we can do it safely.

If there is the slimmest chance of this going south it can wait until it can be done safely. Doesn't ANYONE think for themselves anymore?



[edit on 28-1-2009 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Quite simply no. The residents of earth know very little about science as a whole. I don't know you, maybe you work at a university but if you don't, if you have normal, everyday, average friends then i set you this task. Go around and ask them to explain string theory, Einsteins E=MC2 equation, hydrostatic equilibrium. I bet you right now that most of them won't be able to. That is why we cannot ask the inhabitants of earth because you would be asking them to decide about something they have no knowledge of.



What planet are you from? The same one that 15 year old kid is from that keeps comparing this to the dangers of driving a car? Oh wait you compared it to the chances of being stuck by lightning. You have lost all credibility.

Like I said a second ago this can wait until it can be done with 100% safety to mankind and life as we know it.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Reaper106
 


I know I heard the same thing. I believe they said a magnet lost containment of some horrible gas or something. I believe they said it would take another year befor the thing is fired up again. They had a live feed from the LHC when they started it then something went wrong and the live feeds stopped. I did not do any further looking into it because I kinda lost interest. This site actually peaked my interest in it again. The first thing I thought was that they opened up another dimension or something and had to deal with it secretly. That's just me and my imagination no research or links to back that up. A good theory though. I do want to look into it more.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by jackflap]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Quite simply no. The residents of earth know very little about science as a whole. I don't know you, maybe you work at a university but if you don't, if you have normal, everyday, average friends then i set you this task. Go around and ask them to explain string theory, Einsteins E=MC2 equation, hydrostatic equilibrium. I bet you right now that most of them won't be able to. That is why we cannot ask the inhabitants of earth because you would be asking them to decide about something they have no knowledge of.
[edit on 28-1-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]


Interesting you bring up Einstein because it really comes down to who you believe is right Hawking or Einstein when you are talking about black holes.

The Nobel prize winning genius that was Einstein said Black Holes can only grow and never shrink and Hawking who has yet to be proved right about anything at all claims "Hawking Radiation" which claims there are magical anti mass particles that fall into black holes and make them smaller.

Am I the only one who see's a problem with negative mass even being attracted by gravity wouldn't it need mass first if it even existed.

Not that Black Holes are my worry with this thing but if there is even a chance of one I think relying on Hawking Radiation is a very dumb move.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by Teknikal]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Aermacchi
I am familiar with string theory and relativity but if Scientists are so sure they know what is going to happen and if their is a remote chance they are wrong even the slightest, then it is prudent to lean on the side of caution.

There is no "side of caution." Cut the crap, you don't know what you're talking about, and I barely do as a layman. But we do know that similar reactions happen en masse due to solar radiation and the Earth's atmosphere, and that the community of particle physicists and physical chemists as a whole believe that this is ABSOLUTELY safe. The black hole thing sounds scary, but it's not going to happen. There's no probability, since it's thought by all wisdom and knowledge that nothing bad will happen. Whether it will, honestly you can't even say that the universe won't explode next second, so minute probabilities that are made up don't help us.


Originally posted by Aermacchi
Do we NEED this experiment?

Yes.


Originally posted by Aermacchi
If yes then why?

To understand the very nature of what matter is composed of. To learn about nature. To learn to harness new forces, to perfect the way we use the world around us. To turn this technology into power sources (ex. combustion, nuclear), to turn what we learn into it into ways to increase efficiency. To use physics to power great leaps and bounds in the medical field (of course I think of this, as a biomedical engineer), as we have to create radiation treatments, MRIs, cancer treatments, pretty much everything you can think of is tied to biophysics (bioelectricity, bioimaging, biomechanics, biomaterials, etc). Because we can.


Originally posted by Aermacchi
and how in the hell have we survived all these years without it so far?

The same way we survived without electricity, without computers, without penicillin, without pacemakers, without life saving drugs, without defibrillators, without medical imaging, without the light bulb, without engines, without motors, without all sorts of technology.

In other words, without people who don't understand what they're talking about trying to halt scientific progress.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by Johnmike]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


Not worried about. I embrace the inevitable doom. No really it is likely that the odds of annihilation are pretty small.

In fact the biggest super collider in our solar system is the sun, which is part of a gigantic electric circuit that whips particles around as close to the speed of light as you want to get. It hasn't been swallowed up by a black hole just yet.

That's probably because black holes do not even exist. Some have argued that they aren't even valid solutions to Einsteins general relativity tensor equation.



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by Aermacchi

Oh yes the immediate survival of the entire human race is contingent on this experiment coming to fruition and saving the world!



Did I say immediate? My mouth doesn't like spewing crap, so don't put your words in it. But yes, the human race will benefit from these experiments. A greater understanding of physics will lead us to new energy sources and inventions, which will in turn lead to thousands of different technologies that will help the human race.




Apples and oranges logic is what this is about


Not at all. Show me how it's wrong for one group of people to put other peoples' lives at a minute risk, but it's not wrong for another group to do the same? You can argue that the stakes are higher, but I can easily counter with the fact that protons running into each other in a controlled environment has never actually killed somebody.




And like those who think they can whoop everyones ass after a few drinks talking all cocky like you are, get into that car because they too think they know everything and occasionally, more often than anyone would want to admit to, they DO kill people and THAT is taking risks we are willing to make trusting those who lucid, sharp, but not drunk and likewise not drunk with condescending arrogance thinking they can drive with no worries on their first day of driving school, only this accident is a total and the whole planet is a wreck


Way to make a whole bunch of sense. Would you care to go try and pass English class before attempting entire paragraphs? It would help. In the meantime, I'm going to pick out the bits and pieces that are legible and respond to that:

I never said I could "whoop anyone's anything." Furthermore, you have no reason, cause, or justification for implying that I'm a drunk driver. I understand you may not have been calling me one. I honestly have no idea. It just seems like that might be what you were trying to say. Did my comment about causing accidents hit too close to home or something?



YES, you are actually making that argument. Please stop. It's silly.


No, actually, my argument makes perfect sense. If putting other people at risk is bad, regardless of how small the risk is, then stop driving.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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I know we don't have the energy or technology to create a black hole that would consume our planet, or even a large portion of it, but the cern facility is quite capable of catastrophic damage, probably enough to at least make the alps disappear. Won't it be something if they do create a black hole, with the strength a thousand times that of hiroshima, imploding for more then a minute.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:21 AM
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I think that when they ran it for a test drive, it DID open a small tear in an another dimension... I had a 'vision' as clear as my computer desk in front of me of an alternate version of me in a bathroom mirror screaming in abject terror at what 'we' both saw. Basically each of 'us' saw the other version in the mirror. I less woke up than I 'came to' startled as heck that I was A) on the couch napping, and not in the bathroom, and b) The whole thing just plain freaked me out anyways.

I do NOT have visions. I don't dream weird crap like that, and I certainly don't do it in a 10 min nap, either. I do not take drugs. This was like a few hours after they ran the LHC, and then broke it. If it happens again, I will make notes- time and dated if I can- and compare them to LHC schedules.

I spent a good long while wondering what was up, until I saw when they screwed up the test, as correlated to my nap that morning. There was a lag of like 8-10 hours, so the possibility of some stray thing that didn't dissolve like a good godknows what did something. Or I am sensitive to that sort of thing (I hope not!).

Like I said- I have any more alternate "me's" running into each other in a dream, vision, or who knows what- I'll document. If I quietly fade into an alternate dimension, here's hoping life will be a lot better there...




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