Scientists Not So Sure 'Doomsday Machine' Won't Destroy World

Not too SCARE anybody but what if not only do these tiny black holes just "last longer" well much longer,but also get bigger and bigger, that would really suck wouldnt it,well it would suck thats for sure! lol

Originally posted by googolplex
If they do create something, it won't be black hole only something that acts like black hole for a very short time period.

If it were to try and become larger black hole simulacrum, it would evaporate into Hawkings Rays before it could expand.

If you don't believe me ask Hawkings.

Stephen Hawking doesnt know either. He has changed his mind several times and will be the first one to admit he does not know enough about them.

Hawking changes his mind about black holes

Physicist plans to pay up on long-standing bet.

Mark Peplow

The eminent physicist Stephen Hawking has conceded that information can escape from black holes after all. The idea has been gaining popularity with physicists for some time, but the fact that Hawking, a pioneer of black-hole theory in the 1970s, has finally accepted it is something of a watershed.

Nice. If this man keeps changing his mind about them than we better wait until someone is totally sure.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by LoneGunMan]

Originally posted by woodwytch
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Hey there 'T.A',

Just gave you a star for being a voice of reason and common sense !

Ok, so positive results from this experiment might advance our knowledge of physics 'IF' it's successful and everything goes to plan but if there is an element of uncertainty ... then surely they should hold back until they actually understand what they are doing and eliminate any potential risks.

And if these risks hold the remotest possibility of destroying our planet and her inhabitants (us), then shouldn't we have some say in whether or not we are willing to take that risk ?

How / why do a bunch of 'white-coats' get to make that decision on behalf of the worlds population ... however great the benefits might be 'IF' it's successful ?

Woody

there's also a remote possibility that a random unknown particle from the center of the universe will come whizzing through your body causing it to explode...does that mean you should live in a bunker covered in 20 foot thick lead walls?

Three scientists out of all those interested in the LHC say that IF microsingularities are created they MAY last almost a second. and that's the only "concern" they seem to have. Seeing as how they plainly say they won't be any real danger.

which is like three out of all P.E. teachers saying there's a remote possibility that you'll be struck by an asteroid while out playing soccer so beware!!!


edit to add: there's incredibly small risk in a lot of experiments that are done in labs small and large the world over all day every day. it's attitudes like yours that preceded the dark ages... don't wig out so much over what amounts to nothing.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by optimus primal]

reply to post by delasur13


and what if the next time you eat a ham sandwich you get a parasite and it kills you! better not eat ham ever again!

please stop with the "what if"s they have no basis in this discussion. and only further degrade it into more baseless speculation.

reply to post by wisefoolishness


I dont think any blackholes will be created, the earth is in no danger from this experiments. I hope there are real scientific findings from this experiments. proof of the higgs boson or proof of gravitons according to the string thoery would be very useful

Originally posted by optimus primal

edit to add: there's incredibly small risk in a lot of experiments that are done in labs small and large the world over all day every day. it's attitudes like yours that preceded the dark ages... don't wig out so much over what amounts to nothing.

Then why do any research at all? Why not just throw all caution to the wind before you understand and eliminate all possibility of a screw up.

No one is saying do not ever do it. Just wait until all these people that think its a Great Idea are beyond the idea stage. If there is any chance that it could start feeding on matter and gain energy and grow then we need to wait until we understand the science more. You see its not something that amounts to nothing. Life is the greatest gift and most important thing in the universe. Nothing matters except life. To take a chance on all life as we know is recklessly irresponsible.

Einstein was never certain, he called it "spooky science". Hawking isn't sure either about black holes. So if these two top scientists are not sure what makes you people think you are certain?

No worries once they open the vortex a team of scientists from the future are going to pass through into this time and reverse the process, then destroy this machine.

Seriously, if you look into the hypothetical the creation of a strangelet is more worrisome than the threat of these theoretical, incredibly small black holes.

The ultimate question: Why did they spend so much money on this?



[edit on 28-1-2009 by Walkswithfish]

Originally posted by gormly

Originally posted by treemanx

Originally posted by questioningall

 

I agree with you completely, I have thought the same thing.
What gives them the right to play God?
They have no right, they will not be learning anything miraculous.

For those that dont know what this experiment does, for what could be gained from studying it, here it is-

The basic theory is this: Lets say that you wanted to know how a pocket watch worked. But you didnt have the ability to understand its complexity of construction. The LHC will basically smash the pocket watch at extremely high speed, and video tape it blowing apart. Scientists will then review the video, to see how the watch came apart, then rewind it to see how it came back together.
[edit on 28-1-2009 by treemanx]

treemanx, That was AWESOME! One of the best analogies I have ever read, thank you.



Oh and questioningall.. you have ZERO credibility bro after your "earthquake" BS. Just be glad I left you alone after I realized talking to you was a complete waste of time... you are a true doomer.

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment, but I cant take full credit for the anaolgy. I heard Michio Kaku use a version of this analogy while talking about the LHC. I thought it was clever also, so it stuck in the back of my head!

reply to post by LoneGunMan


the answer to your question: because without these experiments we will NEVER understand blackholes or the bigbang with any certainty. you come up with some experiments that have absolutely no risk of any detrimental effects and i'm sure every physicist on the planet will gladly switch. but untill then the infinitesimally remote chance that microsingularities lasting almost a second might occur is hardly something to be worried about.

looks like the guns are out from the usual sources,they really dont want such an important scientific discovery as a micro singularity being created to go ahead.

all this doomsday talk,ignore it all they just dont want us to discover something great and extraordinary.

it isnt going to destroy the god damn world,the mass that is present in a singularity of particle size is meaningless,its impossible for it to destroy very much at all......

especially when these scientists are only saying any singularities will last FOR A FEW SECONDS MAXIMUM,and not the pico seconds originaly assumed.

We conclude that ... the growth of black holes to catastrophic size does not seem possible. Nonetheless, it remains true that the expected decay times are much longer (and possibly >> 1 second) than is typically predicted by other models," the three state in a brief paper posted at the scientific discussion Web site ArXiv.org.

significantly bigger ones have already been created anyway in collapsing bose einstien condensates.

a decaying micro singularity should form a rip in space time with interesting results,not sure if a single particle is capable of creating a worthy enough singularity to form a decent enough space time rip.

a few things. i think its good a country like switzerland(which has always been neutral) is the one that made the lhc and not germany, north korea or some other non neutral country. and i have a feeling that just like all other times when they restart the lhc something will be messed up again. im probably one of the few people hoping the lhc does make decent sized blackholes. if sadly the lhc doesn't destroy earth, then it can hopefully be made into a more compacted form that can then be shot at aliens trying to take over earth and destroy them

reply to post by A NeWorlDisorder


I'd have to agree. Swallowing the world up with a black hole seems almost humane by comparison to the current course. Either the world spirals into a black hole or the world spirals into tyranny and WWIII.

Personally I'd rather get swallowed up by the hole, then endure famine and disease through a long nuclear winter.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Your statement "up in arms over another sixth grade experiment" jogged my memory of one I checked out on strangeland.com.

The fella dropped several nice big chlorine bleach tablets into a quart glass jar, and poured in some other liquid; probably some kind of other cleaning juice with a lot of ammonia. Remember that mixture, buddy.
He capped it nice and tight right before he started vigorously shaking.
The explosion sounded like a concussion grenade. I'm almost positive from the sound of it, he WAS left-handed. Call him up in arm now.

It doesn't matter how young or how smart we are, just how ignorant.
I've yet to see a mathematical matrix accurately predict an exact result.
That's why they call it statistics, and Benjamin Disraeli was no fool. Cheers

Originally posted by derfreebie
It doesn't matter how young or how smart we are, just how ignorant.
I've yet to see a mathematical matrix accurately predict an exact result.
That's why they call it statistics, and Benjamin Disraeli was no fool. Cheers

Well i agree with the statement that mathematics in these kinds of situations will struggle to predict an exact result. That is why they have built safety margins into it, large safety margins. I really am looking forward to it being turned on and the information start streaming out, just so all the naysayers and doom mongers can once again be proven wrong.

Doom mongers never learn though, they always wait for the doom cart to trundle along and somersault onto it.

I don't know what to think about it. I'm no expert so I can't do the math by myself.
Still, I'll always support science and technological progress.
I'd rather die trying to find the secret of the universe rather than die because some government official declares war and bomb my house to purposefully kill me.

Correct me if I’m wrong here but doesn’t the LHC simply reproduce an action that takes place naturally with the only difference being all of the sensors in place to document all things imaginable that happen during these collisions?
Isn’t the whole objective here to really “see” what takes place? Sure, there are a lot of theories as to what happens, but this is a chance to actually see things happen. Is there really cause for concern over seeing this?
Didn’t this LHC actually require more than a handful of scientists to sign off on it long before they started construction?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I doubt they have any safety margins whatsoever for the production of black holes. The fact is the current theories are deeply flawed and they know it. That's one reason for the collider to try to make sense of the mess.

The calculations for black holes, which have never been shown to exist, are all speculation. They don't even know if Hawking radiation is real, which is required for the black hole to 'evaporate'. That is a pure theoretical speculation.

Nice of them to subject the entire world to a mere unproven mathematical speculation.

reply to post by wisefoolishness


Well if anything they've created the worlds biggest weapon.
Could be usefull when the Sontarans invade the earth in
Dec 21, 2012

There`s nothing new under the Sun.
Every 20 years or so the same old garbage keeps coming back.
The next generation does not believe the last had any intellegence.
Since computers have come along people can`t think.
Tesla invented this technology in 1879.
He said he could split the Earth in two.

Einstein and others developed the atomic bomb out of this same technology.. Does not that warn anyone we don`t need this.
These devices are over powered and can`t be earthed large levels of radiation are given off by all of so called new technology.

A slip of the tongue seems to have turned power radiation into a harmless level of energy even called low level radiation.. Changes in terminology don`t address the fact that science has lost knowlege.

Civilian experts miss the fact this energy is effective over almost any distance.. Whether we oberve it on the conscious level..
Most may not be on the plant spiritual or enegetically epesually since Teslas time.. Our common sense had gone..

We can not feel our environment if we do we are oversensitivie:
We are supposed to be saving the planet, while they are burning up our reserves trying to workout how to distroy the planet..

Old idea and old not new technology has come back round again:
We`ve been told is new let us see its new; How many 20`s year cycles goes into the period between 1879 to 2009.. Even though the military tried to keep it under cover between 1930 and 1980

Industry seem to know the hassards but like the military feel no compulsion to tell us all... After all this energy is only low level... An harmless.. The levels of cancer have inceased, in the peroid before the 2nd world war and just after cancer was very rare.
Now its one in 3..... are expected to get it..

I love science, BUT if there is even a remote chance that this thing could destroy the planet then shut that mutha down. I may be weird but I don't really feel like loosing my life just yet. Call me crazy but that is just me.

Seems to me that the risk is greater than the reward. Yeah we could learn some things or die while we are being pulled apart atom by atom.

Oh and one other thing, since they have this little project that could destroy earth should they not maybe have discussed this with the residents of earth first?

Now thats just silly.