Escaping Religious Images and Delusions, page 8

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reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 03:27 PM by John Matrix

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
1.Would you be able to remain rightous if man tried to take your life of flesh?

2.What does turn the other cheek mean to you?

3.What is so divine about a nature that eventually looses hope, reacts in hate, anger, ect....aren't we supposed to be overcoming such primal ways? Why over come those ways, just to fall back to them?

1. I do not understand the question. But if you are saying that I would not be righteous if I defended myself then you are mistaken. Where I come from the men of God are MEN, and the WOMEN are proud of it.

2. Not what you think it means. When King Jesus returns no one will get away with even thinking about slapping Him. He is not the Wimp you think he is. He came as a Lamb because that was his mission, next He comes as the Lion from the Tribe of Judah to set up his Kingdom on Mt. Zion and all the armies of the world will not stop Him. In fact, He will destroy them.

3. Your questions are loaded with assumptions. We are human, we are subject to and suffer from human frailty. God Does not expect perfection from believers, so why should you? We are under God's Grace, diamonds in the rough as we live according to the Spirit He will work in us and perfect us. God's Love, Mercy and Grace give us Peace.

Peace!

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 03:50 PM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by John Matrix

Offering your life of flesh for others to learn from you is not 'whimpy'. There is not a more faithful act in the world, but often confused and misused to gain power instead of displaying a love for the unit of the world.

It is the hardest question to answer truthfully. Mabey you chose not to understand it because you can not get past the idea of the righteous actions this demands of you.

My point was not stating that man was to be perfect...but that is no excuse to not see what a divine nature truly is. Its comfortable for people to think Jesus will come fix things or that God wont allow all of this to continue. So many talk the talk but wont walk the walk, they wait on Jesus to come do it again.

I do think more is expected of us. I do believe and have hope that we as a whole unit on this planet are capable of much more then what we are portraying.

I could tell you that the Holy Spirit shows me these things...but you can assume its all just random assumptions.

People couldn't understand it back then when he offered his life of flesh and most still do not get it now. Excuses have been made for his actions of righteousness, such as a need for the blood sacrifice or the coming back of Jesus to bring back the God of the OT.

Ill rephrase question 1

1. Can you remain like Christ and lay down your life as a lesson of love for others?

The most humble teaching is not about sacrifice, a forceful nature...but an offering, a willing nature.

My best,
LV

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 04:09 PM by LeoVirgo

Pride is not a divine nature either...so your MEN who are MEN and the WOMEN who are proud of that both have things to work on. This is falling to the ego of being a man, or a woman....the idea of a separate self having a right to do a certain thing just because that soul was born a man. The ego of that man tells him that he has the right to kill out of self defense, not the spirit.

The hardest lessons are often ignored and tossed aside.

There are ways to stand up to someone or stand defense without becoming as ugly as the wrong doer. Two wrongs do not make a right.

We are not to fight for this life...we are to cope and adjust and shine light where we can.

You see it as a battle, I see it like a sifting process....everything sifting until no light is lost.

Like grapes becoming a nice wine, or yeast rising in dough, a process over a duration of time....not ever having a quick fix. Which for most, this is hard to swallow, so they stick with the delusions, as you say.

Im happily diluted, free from chains in the fear of a forceful God with a nature of divine hate.

Thank you for responding and having a civil discussions with my assumptions of things.

Peace to all,
LV

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 04:30 PM by John Matrix

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
1. Can you remain like Christ and lay down your life as a lesson of love for others?

You don't simply lay down your life to provide a lesson for others, that would be ignorant and foolish.

I have put my life at risk to protect others, that is called laying down one's life for a friend, fortunately we punched the thugs out and we both survived unharmed, when they dropped their weapons and ran like cowards.

Nor is self martyrdom an action associated with the Divine Nature. It is the action of fools.

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 04:33 PM by John Matrix

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Pride is not a divine nature either...so your MEN who are MEN and the WOMEN who are proud of that both have things to work on.

Thank you for knit picking my every word. Sorry for not being perfect. Replace the word Proud with Happy if you like.

[edit on 25/1/09 by John Matrix]

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 04:50 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by John Matrix

Keyword.
You believe.
I respect and even after a fashion share your belief, some what, if not agree completely with the particulars. But in the end neither of us have unassailable proof and both await the journey beyond death with little more than belief.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:02 PM by LeoVirgo

Its called the true offering. If your following the will of the divine nature, that nature does not will you to kill another man, ever. Most of the religious delusions keeps one from seeing this nature, the true test of where our love stands...is it for this life, or the next. Ill say it again, most are not ready for such a offering.

Was Christ ignorant in offering his life of flesh? Mabey the only real lesson lays in this thought.

Pride and happiness are not similar attributes, there for they can not be interchanged.

I dont challenge just anybodies words, but I do challenge those who speak of the divine nature. So you can call it nit picking, I call it standing up for what makes Thee so divine. A pure vibration that isnt capable of such darkness that has been displayed, it doesnt fall to primal ways, and this is what we are to strive for.

Always best intentions,
LV

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:04 PM by John Matrix

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by John Matrix

Keyword.
You believe.
I respect and even after a fashion share your belief, some what, if not agree completely with the particulars. But in the end neither of us have unassailable proof and both await the journey beyond death with little more than belief.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Yes, I agree. I cannot prove the existance of God and the unbelivers cannot disprove the existance of God. It's a belief and Faith that is personal. That others have the same belief might be good evidence, but that works for both sides of the debate just as well.
People come to believe because they are called, and predestined by God to become a believer, hence, we love God because he first loved us.

[edit on 25/1/09 by John Matrix]

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:07 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Then be strong in your belief. The kind of strength that I am talking about does not need to prove it to others or validate itself through converting others to it's thoughts. True strength is silent.
I apologize if that is not what you are doing but from the outside it does look to be that way.

And besides, your not going to change his mind.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:12 PM by justamomma

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by John Matrix

Keyword.
You believe.
I respect and even after a fashion share your belief, some what, if not agree completely with the particulars. But in the end neither of us have unassailable proof and both await the journey beyond death with little more than belief.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

I just wonder why anyone would believe anything in which they personally had no proof of.

It is sad really.

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:13 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by justamomma

He has sufficient proof, for him.
It many not be enough for you but who are you to judge him?
Who is he to judge you?
It's all silliness, politics and people trying to control people.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:14 PM by John Matrix

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
I don't challenge just anybodies words, but I do challenge those who speak of the divine nature. So you can call it nit picking, I call it standing up for what makes Thee so divine. A pure vibration that isn't capable of such darkness that has been displayed, it doesn't fall to primal ways, and this is what we are to strive for.

Always best intentions,
LV

So it's the messenger you have a problem with and not the message?
You are entitled to your opinion and belief. Maybe you are further along than I am.
Maybe you would just lay down and let a murderer kill innocent children rather than stop them even if it was within your power. Let your conscience be your judge in that case.

I would not even thing twice about pulling the trigger to prevent a thug from killing innocent people. My conscience would be violated if I did nothing.

Like the apostle Paul said, whatever you do, do it having faith in God. Anything done apart from faith is sin.

[edit on 25/1/09 by John Matrix]

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:16 PM by justamomma

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Well, I wasn't talking about him necessarily.

Edited to add: I do not believe in being controlled and I do not believe in controlling others. I do my best to encourage people to never settle on blind faith, particularly blind faith on a dead man. However, you are right. Ultimately it is each person's responsibility.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by justamomma]

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:18 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by justamomma

He is merely example. My statement stands whoever your talking about.
seeing as to he admits he can't prove it, thusly sad in your opinion.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:18 PM by John Matrix

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Then be strong in your belief. The kind of strength that I am talking about does not need to prove it to others or validate itself through converting others to it's thoughts. True strength is silent.
I apologize if that is not what you are doing but from the outside it does look to be that way.

And besides, your not going to change his mind.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

I'm not trying to prove anything.....some don't see that. This person you are referring to seems to be struggling with understanding my position and they also seem to be trying to set me up so they can point the finger. I don't want to be rude to them, and I hope I am reaching an understanding with them.

I appreciate your comments, and so far you have been right on.

[edit on 25/1/09 by John Matrix]

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:21 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by John Matrix

As I said it from the outside appears your preaching at each other. I admittingly could be wrong.......

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:24 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by justamomma

Ah but isn't that trying to control someone else's thoughts?
To set the criteria in which they choose to believe something? Which is what you are trying to do. What leads him to believe is sufficient to him and which is why I ask "who are you to judge him?" are you somehow better? Do you have the inside track that at least I KNOW I lack and have not seen any sufficient proof to say anyone else does either?

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 05:53 PM by justamomma

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by justamomma

Ah but isn't that trying to control someone else's thoughts?

Not at all... I support your choice to believe whatsoever you choose for whatsoever reason you choose to believe it.

If my opinion is able to control your thoughts, that would be more your problem of lack of self control for your own thoughts, no?

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 06:28 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by justamomma

Ah but to say someone is running on "blind faith" and say that you are not is taking a situation in which neither side really has anything beyond belief and inferring you have proof you do not. Which is largely a veiled attempt at conversion via insult, you most likely don't see it that way and would disagree with doing it that way but look at it from the perspective of your opponent.

reply posted on 25-1-2009 @ 06:36 PM by TheMythLives

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

I completely agree with you, while we all may "think" that we have the right answers in faith, we cannot openly go around and tell everyone to believe this and tell them that they are making poor belief systems. If anything we can only tell them what we believe and say no more, because in the end its up to everyone to make up there own mind, without anyone elses help or input. Simple question is:

Do you believe because others believe or do you believe because you actually believe?