Escaping Religious Images and Delusions

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posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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Is your concept of Jesus, God, or Christ a religious delusion?
Do you think by simply professing the name of Jesus and by believing God raised Him from the dead that you are saved?
Many people believe that and say they love God, while in their hearts they still hate their brothers. So what's the problem?

To escape religious dogma and all the possible images and delusions of the mind, one must first understand there are two possible states of Life:

1. The first state is the Natural (the “Self” life).

In this state a person lives according to the Spirit of this world. Take any man in his natural state; everything he does from the time of his birth is from a want for something. Self, must Covet, because it is a desire proceeding from want; Self must Envy, because it is a desire turned to its self; Self must assume and arrogate, because Pride works as a desire to exalt one’s self over others.

While man lives the Self life, his Covetousness, Envy, and Pride may take on the appearance of some good, may offer moments of peace, may provide some gratifications, but they can never be fully satisfied, and whenever these desires are contradicted, challenged, humiliated, offended, etc., a fourth expression of vengeful anger breaks forth.

William Law wrote:
“While man is under the power of nature, governed only by his worldly wisdom, his life, no matter how old he might be, is still quite childish. That is because everything about Him serves only to awaken childish thoughts and pursuits in Him:
All that He sees and hears;
All that He desires and fears;
All that He likes and all that He dislikes;
All that He has and that He has not;
All that He gets and all that He loses;
Servers only to carry Him from one fiction of Evil, to another fiction of Good;
From one vanity of peace, to another vanity of trouble”.

2. The second state is God manifested in Nature (the “Spiritual” life).

In this state a person renounces Self and the Spirit of this World, and desires to Live by the Spirit of God. Living by the Spirit is plain and simple, it transcends all religions, is always near, is free from all deceptions, and always results in success. It is a way of living that is diametrically opposed to the Self life. It is the way of Patience, Meekness, Humility, and Love for God and mankind. Therein lies the only way to overcome Self and all the images and delusions of one's mind concerning Jesus, Christ, and God.

Some will ask, what about Jesus?

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus was the Divine Nature incarnate. He is now the risen Christ, seated at the right hand of the Father. When we grasp exactly what the Divine Nature and Character of Christ and God is, and seek those elements to be the ground for our own character, then we are truly following the one true Son of God, worshiping Him and placing our faith in Him.

It takes more than simply knowing or professing the name of Jesus to be saved. Cereal killers profess Jesus as being the Son of God, so where does that leave us? Even the Demons believe in God and shudder. But in
Humility, Meekness, Patience and Love for God and humanity is the Divine Nature of Christ, and it is in those elements that we find our spiritual rebirth, forgiveness, redemption, salvation, illumination, enlightenment, transformation, etc. By the simple turning of the will, with as little faith as a mustard seed, to those Divine Virtues of Christ, and desiring with all your heart to be governed by them, you are turning from all that you are from the Fall of Adam, to all that God is and desires of us. In this there is no fault, false religion, or false Christ, and no one can argue successfully against it, nor deny you of it.

If this is the Christ that you follow, you will fully escape all the religious delusions that are in the world, and all the possible delusions of your own mind.

If you would like to freely study the Mystical and Ethereal writings of "William Law" here is the link:

www.ccel.org...



I appreciate your input and comments.




posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:01 PM
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The truth will set you free.

"desiring with all your heart to be governed by them,"

You do not offer freedom, you offer slavery. Yes, accept Satan so that he can control your heart, and have you do things which appear to be right, but are full of hypocrisy, hate and bigotry.

Tell me again John, why does your God allow you to war?

Why do you follow the path that is broad and based on destruction?

Why is it evil when someone else does something, but not evil when you do the exact same thing?

Why does the same rich man Jesus denied get into heaven according to your religion?

Why does your god have lower morals than even a dictator such as Saddam Hussein?



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
The truth will set you free.

"desiring with all your heart to be governed by them,"

You do not offer freedom, you offer slavery.


I offer nothing. The two ways of living Life transcend all religions.
Living by the Spirit of the Divine Creator is Freedom.

Living by the Spirit of this World is a life of bondage; always attacking, accusing, assuming and arrogating, full of evil desires and always looking for gratification, but never satisfied.

There are ways to say what you need to say without attacking.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:20 PM
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Look, you realise this is just swapping one religious master for another? More teachings from someone who claims to have the answer, yet is in fact just another person peddling a supernatural answer. There is no evidence for a creator, if you feel you have to belong to a religion for your happiness then fine, yet claiming you and only you have the key to happiness is immensely cruel to people searching for solace.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by Venit
Look, you realise this is just swapping one religious master for another? More teachings from someone who claims to have the answer, yet is in fact just another person peddling a supernatural answer. There is no evidence for a creator, if you feel you have to belong to a religion for your happiness then fine, yet claiming you and only you have the key to happiness is immensely cruel to people searching for solace.


I have made no such claims.
This knowledge transcends all religions, yet is not a religion.
You cannot prove that a Creator does not exist. Attempting to do so is futile and I will not engage in it.

Be Kind.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
I offer nothing. The two ways of living Life transcend all religions.
Living by the Spirit of the Divine Creator is Freedom.

Living by the Spirit of this World is a life of bondage; always attacking, accusing, assuming and arrogating, full of evil desires and always looking for gratification, but never satisfied.

There are ways to say what you need to say without attacking.



Just couldn't bring yourself to answering the questions? Couldn't face the hypocrisy?

Every lie you tell is an attack on the truth, I am being nice.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
The truth will set you free.

"desiring with all your heart to be governed by them,"

You do not offer freedom, you offer slavery. Yes, accept Satan so that he can control your heart, and have you do things which appear to be right, but are full of hypocrisy, hate and bigotry.

1. Tell me again John, why does your God allow you to war?

2. Why do you follow the path that is broad and based on destruction?

3. Why is it evil when someone else does something, but not evil when you do the exact same thing?

4. Why does the same rich man Jesus denied get into heaven according to your religion?

5, Why does your god have lower morals than even a dictator such as Saddam Hussein?



1. War is a result of people like you who taunt, accuse, and attack, which has noting to do with whether God allows war or not.

2. The path I try to follow is very narrow, clear and concise and God extends his mercy and grace to those on it.

3. Evil is evil. It does not matter who does it, it is never ok.

4. I don't recall ever saying I follow a religion, or that the same rich man Jesus turned away gets into heaven. Rich men do however get into heaven "IF" they are not attached to their wealth and IF they perceive themselves as stewards of what God has given them, and IF they put their faith and trust in him. Jesus did not say rich men could not enter Heaven. The eye of the needle Jesus spoke of was known in His time as a small opening in the wall of Jerusalem. A rich man could not get through the opening with his camels and wealth because it was too small. The Rich young ruler that approached Jesus turned away sad because He loved his wealth more than the Kingdom of Heaven. It's all about perception.

5. A God of Love is a moral standard far above all others. Your question assumes and arrogates for the purpose of exalting yourself and putting God beneath you. This is an abomination. You should repent and ask for His Mercy.

[edit on 23/1/09 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
1. War is a result of people like you who taunt, accuse, and attack, which has noting to do with whether God allows war or not.


Funny, because I would have attributed it to the kind of people who you know - actively promote and support wars? The kind of people who think they are justified in going to war, to "save" their lifes. Apparently, these people think Jesus was lieing when he said to fear not those who are able to kill the body. Oh, gotta fear them terrorists right?



2. The path I try to follow is very narrow, clear and concise and God extends his mercy and grace to those on it.


But yet you are on a path that includes death and destruction. You believe in wars, I've seen you post about it. The entire Christian "Just war" theory is bogus. To do so is to be a hypocrite. You are killing people because they kill people. You do not rid the world of evil, you merely replace the evil with your own greater evil. You play the evil for them, they play the evil for you, and all the while neither side wakes up and realizes they are both being hypocrites.



3. Evil is evil. It does not matter who does it, it is never ok.


So is it ok for you to kill and war with other people? Oh I see, it's only evil when the other person does it. You are fighting for the "good" side right?




4. I don't recall ever saying I follow a religion, or that the same rich man Jesus turned away gets into heaven. Rich men do however get into heaven because they are not attached to their wealth and they perceive themselves as stewards of what God has given them, and they put their faith and trust in him. Jesus did not say rich men could not enter Heaven. The eye of the needle Jesus spoke of was known in His time as a small opening in the wall of Jerusalem. A rich man could not get through the opening with his camels and wealth because it was too small. The Rich young ruler that approached Jesus turned away sad because He loved his wealth more than the Kingdom of Heaven. It's all about perception.


I guess when Jesus said - hey, actually follow what I say, what Jesus really meant was - oh just believe in me, then all will be ok. Keep your riches, give to the church, even though the poor woman who gives 2 pennies will still be giving more.

If the rich man was not attached to his possessions, then he would have given them to the poor and he would not be the rich man. Jesus did not say be ready to get rid of them, he said get rid of them now. Again, I guess your claim is that Jesus told a lie.



5. A God of Love is a moral standard far above all others. Your question assumes and arrogates for the purpose of exalting yourself and putting God beneath you. This is an abomination. You should repent and ask for His Mercy.


Please, the entire concept of eternal hell is from low morals. As a parent, I do from time to time have to punish the child. However, for no reason would I EVER punish my child for all of eternity. It would be like your kid screwing up, and you just punish him forever. No parent would ever do such a thing. And tons of others. These things are not signs of a God that loves, but signs of FEAR.

I am never fearful of the father. The only thing you could say I am fearful of is that I make mistakes I shouldn't. Such as being so foolish as to believe my father is insane, has lower morals than Saddam Hussein and would enjoy watching me suffer and be tortured for all eternity.

Or that the father just seems to hate anyone who doesn't accept Jesus or the bible, and wants to throw them in hell and watch them suffer. Even Jesus himself says if you don't love or follow him that the father who sent him will speak to you.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia


You are off topic. I accepted your challenge and answered your questions. I did not invite more questions from you, nor did I ask you to attack me further.

You have your beliefs, and I am not interested in disputing them with you.

If you have something to add concerning this topic, please do it without attacking me, or anyone.

[edit on 23/1/09 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by badmedia


You are off topic. I accepted your challenge and answered your questions. I did not invite more questions from you, nor did I ask you to attack me further.

You have your beliefs, and I am not interested in disputing them with you.

If you have something to add concerning this topic, please do it without attacking me, anyone.


I thought the topic was about Escaping Religious Images and Delusions?

I'm not sure what could be more delusional than things such as believing it's justified for you to kill people from other nations and so on.

But I'm attacking you for pointing out that it is kind of delusional to think god needs you to kill for him, or that god is going to punish you in hell for ever?

Are you looking for discussion or agreement?



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


This is not a forum for you to debate God's position or my position on War.
This is not even a debate, it's a discussion about how to escape religious delusions and all the possible false images concerning Christ.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by badmedia
 


This is not a forum for you to debate God's position or my position on War.
This is not even a debate, it's a discussion about how to escape religious delusions and all the possible false images concerning Christ.



Yes, I guess it is hard to put out a message of peace and love while including the fact you think it is ok to go around and war with people, and believe anyone who doesn't agree with you is going to hell for eternity.

Anyway, I won't bother replying anymore. Pretty obvious you are just wanting to preach, not have discussion/debate. I'd be shocked if this thread didn't get moved to BTS.

Enjoy your thread.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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What if the blood sacrifice is a religious delusion? Then what....

What if the whole cross image we all relate to has a deeper meaning then what the masses see as the requirement of a blood shed for sins?

What if that....

With all due respect,
LV



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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Do evil things not serve a purpose here?

You stated evil is evil....how do you decide what is evil....and did that evil not bring a good somehow, teaching a lesson or hardening of ones heart?

Could bad things be serving a purpose here?



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
What if the blood sacrifice is a religious delusion? Then what....

What if the whole cross image we all relate to has a deeper meaning then what the masses see as the requirement of a blood shed for sins?

What if that....

With all due respect,
LV



This is exactly my point. Thank you. It is the deeper meaning that I search for.
One does not need to understand blood sacrifices to walk or Live by the Spirit.
For the body, life is in the blood.
For the Soul and Spirit, life is in God.

[edit on 23/1/09 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Do evil things not serve a purpose here?

You stated evil is evil....how do you decide what is evil....and did that evil not bring a good somehow, teaching a lesson or hardening of ones heart?

Could bad things be serving a purpose here?



Evil is knowingly and deliberately causing harm to others.
Nothing ever justifies or excuses an evil act, even if it appears some good came from it.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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Then why do you see Jesus as a savior? Mabey I read your posts wrong...Ill re read.

If there was no need for a blood sacrifice, then mabey its not all about being saved from sins. Mabey its just about awakening to your truest nature. Can one awake to the truest nature without Jesus? Even though I find my truest nature through the life of Jesus and his actions, mabey some do not, mabey they find that nature through Buddha or a great Indian Chief...

You post alot here at ATS, so Im taking this opportunity to see where your coming from in your beliefs John, if you dont mind. Im trying to get to know everyone here little by little by reading their posts and such.

LV



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


See I think everything serves a purpose for Thee...how is Thee to weigh our thoughts on matters such as love without also weighing our thoughts on prejudices and hate.

The world learns through acts of others, as a whole, we learn how to become better people, what kind of person we would like to be.

I agree, to do something deliberately knowing it will hurt someone is evil....but through these things, one has the opportunity to learn WHY they shouldn't do it....they may receive guilt's, regrets...and in the end, learning how to have strength to control ones self.

When we know of a evil act, it is our thoughts about that act that we are weighed on. Do we forgive the act? Do we love the enemy? Do we fill our hearts with empathy for the victim for Thee to see our seed? If everything was all good....would we learn?

Just thoughts



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Then why do you see Jesus as a savior? Mabey I read your posts wrong...Ill re read.

If there was no need for a blood sacrifice, then mabey its not all about being saved from sins. Mabey its just about awakening to your truest nature. Can one awake to the truest nature without Jesus? Even though I find my truest nature through the life of Jesus and his actions, mabey some do not, mabey they find that nature through Buddha or a great Indian Chief...

You post alot here at ATS, so Im taking this opportunity to see where your coming from in your beliefs John, if you dont mind. Im trying to get to know everyone here little by little by reading their posts and such.

LV


It involves waking to the Divine Nature, which is foreign to the Soul, but with a reborn Spirit the door is opened and we are made partakers of the Divine Nature. As we live by the Spirit the Holy Spirit works on, in, and through our spirit to cleanse the heart, mind and soul and prepare us for life in the Kingdom of Heaven.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 



Do you see the Divine Nature as having the ability to hate, loose hope, show wrath, and kill?

I ask because the God from the OT does these things.

But then people say, well Thee is God, as if that is an excuse or something.

My best,
LV





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