Escaping Religious Images and Delusions

Originally posted by Wertdagf
But do you really have the free will "not" to help people? If somone was injured in frount of you would you not try to help them? Do you really think you could just walk away?

You can still be manipulated regardless of what you believe or think about god, satan, and your soul.

Sure I could. I have years and years of experience. Tell me, what is it exactly that chooses which memories of the experience are to be used for the current decision? Why would I choose 1 memory over another to act upon? It would have to be because I put more importance on that particular memory.

Why would I choose most likely to help that person? Because I am able to put myself in their shoes. I can look at the situation from not only my point of view, and my memories, but I can also look at it from the persons point of view. What if it was me in that car? And so I will treat that person as if they were me.

There is a reason the person has to be manipulated. If they had no free will, then there would be no such thing as manipulation. The entire reason manipulation exists is to control free will.

Yes, we fall prey to manipulations on a daily basis. But the point is to recognize and overcome them. When you overcome them, then you are no longer subject to the manipulation. To be able to make the correct choice, based on the knowledge and experience obtained is wisdom.

Your eyes themselves are a manipulation. Claims to show you light and vision. But in fact, it provides only a very small fraction of the entire light spectrum. VERY SMALL. I think it makes up like 6% of the known spectrum.

upload.wikimedia.org...

Sound really is also just another part of the same spectrum. And so your ears provide that range, not visibly, but as sound. Although presented in a way which can provide direction 3 dimensionally and so on, just as your vision is presented in 2d, but from light and such you are able to make out 3d.

So of course there is manipulation. Manipulation itself is proof of free will. Otherwise wouldn't be needed.

Badmedia....

I know you and I sometimes agree and sometimes not.....but I do love your wisdom and I now LOVE LOVE LOVE the new Avatar!!! Its so you!

I love it when a vibration of light seems to emanate a sound....this might sound silly to some, but that is how I see things like vibrations of light...emanating octaves of sound.

My best,
LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Thanks.

No real disagreements, just different perspectives, different ways of seeing things. The only true perspective is the perspective of all combined, and that is the perspective of the father.

Sure I could. I have years and years of experience. Tell me, what is it exactly that chooses which memories of the experience are to be used for the current decision? Why would I choose 1 memory over another to act upon? It would have to be because I put more importance on that particular memory.

The strenght or continued existance of neurons that make pathways are based upon frequent use. Memories fade away... this is why alzhimeirs is such a problem.. it removes that protective coating on the neurons.

Manipulation is capable through an understanding of "cause and effect". Some manipulation is good and some is bad. It all depends on how the person turns out. Anyone can be manipulated.

If your behavior follows any pattern... or you behave based upon any moral laws, you can be manipulated. You put the right person in the right place and he will do exactly what you want at the right time.

Manipulation itself does not mean free will exists.

reply to post by Wertdagf


You forget that a rule of free will is the ability to give it away. And that is what manipulation does, removes the persons choice and will.

1 person is using their will to manipulate another. Deception and so on are all attacks on a persons free will.

The chains of manipulation are simply invisible, leaving the victim unaware of the manipulation. The hardest man to free is the man who doesn't know he's a slave.

But in the end, these things are just the results of free will.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


No one is using free will in either position. Even the manipulator is trying to create a vision givin to him by causality, which is based upon how much or how little he understood.

No one has givin up free will. Anyone or anything you love can be used to manipulated you, without you realizing it. These people do not lose their souls.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by badmedia

 

No one is using free will in either position. Even the manipulator is trying to create a vision givin to him by causality, which is based upon how much or how little he understood.

No one has givin up free will. Anyone or anything you love can be used to manipulated you, without you realizing it. These people do not lose their souls.

You just keep defining things that can only be done by things with free will. Like a true extremist, you are simply taking that people allow themselves to be subject to manipulation to meaning they have no free will at all.

I also never said they would lose their soul. I said they have sold their soul, meaning they have given away all free will, which is a function of the soul/consciousness.

It's the same old story of fate and destiny. As I told you before, if there is but 1 possibility then we have no free will. But there is more than 1 possibility for all things, and so that gives you choice. It only seems that we make a single linear path because from our perspective we have only seen 1 single linear path. And so free will is reality, no free will is the illusion.

This conversation is running in circles. If you want to focus on the single linear path and say no free will exists, that is your choice and your free will. I'm going to use my free will and choice to say good luck with the perspective, even though luck doesn't exist in it.

Can someone U2U me when this all gets figured out? Hopefully it will be before I decide to pull the plug on this dimension. Who knows, some people might miss me.

[edit on 5/2/09 by John Matrix]