Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
So, You have nothing to testify to, so you see other peoples ways and beliefs, as sad?
Has it ever occured to you that some people have moved well beyond believing in Jesus to actually knowing him? Maybe instead of feeling sad for
others ways and beliefs you need to feel sad for yourself as to why you haven't been given personal proof.
Just a thought.
7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that
dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I
go unto my Father.
If you know Jesus, then you would also know the father. If you know the father, then I should be able to recognize the father within you who will
speak and do works through you. I recognize it in Jesus, as I know the father. People worship and praise Jesus so much they seem to forget that
it is not the words of Jesus, they are the words of the father that speaks through him.
And this is pretty much the entire point. In someone like John Matrix I do not see the father speaking through him. I see only the bible, word of
man, word of the scribes speaking through him. I do not see the understanding the father and the holy spirit brings in him.
There are specific events that happen, and specific understandings that come in the process. These things are also explained in the same Chapter as
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
At that day means at a specific time you will know this. And it says you will know this, because there is no longer any doubt. There is no longer
a doubt about who you are, you will KNOW.
And this is not just for Christians.
24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
If you don't love or do as Jesus says, then you will hear the father. This is what I heard.
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your
remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
And so this is when you get the holy spirit and the holy spirit will teach you things and understandings.
Not to say you can't see Jesus. But it is actually IMO a bit more difficult to see Jesus than it is to see the father. I skipped a few verses
here, but you can look in the chapter and see them, and what you have to do to see Jesus is much harder. You will have to actually follow the path
and do as he says completely. Truly believe him, which is not easy. Easy to claim, not so easy to actually believe. And again, at the very least
they should have the basic understandings I do. Because it is the father who speaks through him.
When I see the understandings of someone like John, who believes in things like war, who believes that only his religion has truth, or believes that
anyone not in his religion goes to hell and so on, then I know he doesn't. All he knows is what he has studied in books. He only knows the fears
and manipulation of man. Is nothing like Jesus.
And when I see people who don't think we are "gods", or sons/daughters of god, then I know they haven't seen the father. If they had, they would
have no troubles or fears in saying so. Does Jesus have fear in saying so?
I don't even think these guys are going to hell or anything like that. It just means they don't know the father yet, and they are only fooling
themselves by accepting the bible in place of it. Sure the bible speaks a good bit of truth, but you can't understand it without knowing the truth
before it. The return of Jesus is symbolic of the return of truth. And when this happens, then all those of the spirit of god will know and see
the truth for themselves, and they will adapt accordingly. Forgiveness is always immediate, provided you are actually sorry and learned from the
mistake, because then it is no longer an issue as you won't do it anymore. Which is all that has really been asked of you.