Greys and the Opposable Thumb

Much is spoken of Greys. Many profess they have met and interacted with them, most times unwillingly. The Grey, as a concept and possible real species (despite reported abductions, until one is the subject of solid proof they remain speculative, not to mention maybe being the product of our psyche), is a conundrum. Are they the projection of our consciousness, designed by a higher purpose to lead us along a different and sometimes uncomfortable spiritual path? Are they part of a vast galactic hive, Borg style?

Or are they, as is my (completely hypothetical) opinion, manufactured biological entities?
That view, for the purposes of this discussion, will be the one we will run with.

The purpose of this thread: It has been puzzling me as to why a vast amount of first hand accounts state that these creatures are without an opposable thumb (all emphasis mine):

FWIW, potentially relevant extract from disputed authenticity MJ12 SOM1-01 (could be disinfo): These entities are humanoid and might be mistaken for human beings of the Oriental race if seen from a distance. They are bipedal, 3-5 feet 4 inches in height and weigh 50-100 pounds…The hands are small, with four long digits but no opposite thumb. the outside digit is jointed in a manner as to be nearly opposable, and there is no webbing between the fingers as in humans.

Typically, Greys are described as being approx. 1-1.2m (3.5-4ft) tall, with a weight of approx. 40 pounds. Grey (sometimes blue-grey / green-grey) skin. Their arms often reach down to their knees, and accounts give them three digits and a thumb on each hand.

They are bi-pedal, 3 feet 5 inches - 4 feet 2 inches in height and weigh 25-50 pounds. The arms are long in proportion to the legs, and the hands have three long, tapering fingers and a thumb which is nearly as long as the fingers. The second finger is thicker than the others, but not as long as the index finger.

www.hyper.net...

Grays can be found from one foot to even seven foot. Some have mushroom-white skin, others with brown and even others with black skin… grays with four fingers, others with three or four fingers and another finger positioned where the human thumb would be and there even those whose finger end with suction-cup-like tips.

www.burlingtonnews.net...

Smith described (to his wife) the dead occupants as having been approximately 4.5 to 5 feet in height, grayish blue tint to the skin, large eyes, small slit for a mouth and four long fingers with no thumbs

www.presidentialufo.com...

"It was a 4ft human-shaped figure with arms, bizarre-looking four-fingered hands - I didn't see a thumb didn't see a thumb…

www.ufocasebook.com...

And the list goes on. I am not contending that all Greys are without thumbs, and as my examples indicate some have been seen to have something that resembles this most important of digits. But the general consensus is that they don’t. And for the instances where a form of thumb has been seen, it would be reasonable to assume mis-identification on the part of the contactee/abductee. Given the intensity of such meetings, is it not fair to assume that the victim’s concentration, and therefore their attention, would be directed elsewhere; ie. surviving what in most accounts are physically strenuous and emotionally draining encounters. So, if we can presume that Greys don’t have thumbs, why do I find this particular physiological anomaly so curious?

Well, if we accept that they are autonomous, biological entities with a vast range of cognitive abilities pre-programmed to be at their disposal; that they can therefore make decisions dependant on their situations and surroundings; that they can alter the structure and schedule of their assignments depending on how circumstances unfold, is it therefore not unfair to theorise that Greys, as an advanced form of artificial life-form, are capable of conscious thought?

We cannot comment on the logic and reasoning behind their creators, whoever they may be, giving them such freedom of expression and cognitive prowess as we are still, in reality, in the speculative stages as to our galactic neighbours’ agenda. But is it not reasonable to speculate that maybe some universal moral, or religious, law dictates that the Greys, and any artificial, self-propelling life-form, had to be endowed with these abilities to protect them from abuse? Life would be considered life, no matter what its provenance.

And this leads me to my theory as to why the Greys have no thumbs; to stop them attaining any form of independence they are hampered by the lack of a thumb, as a form of control.

First off, some evidence for my theory:

The evolution of the opposable or prehensile thumb is usually associated with Homo habilis, the forerunner of Homo sapiens. This, however, is the suggested result of evolution from Homo erectus (around 1 mya) via a series of intermediate anthropoid stages, and is therefore a much more complicated link…The thumb, unlike other fingers, is opposable, in that it is the only digit on the human hand which is able to oppose or turn back against the other four fingers, and thus enables the hand to refine its grip to hold objects which it would be unable to do otherwise. The opposable thumb has helped the human species develop more accurate fine motor skills. It is also thought to have directly led to the development of tools, not just in humans or their evolutionary ancestors, but other primates as well. The opposable thumb ensured that important human functions such as writing were possible. The thumb, in conjunction with the other fingers make humans and other species with similar hands some of the most dexterous in the world.

en.wikipedia.org...

Without the opposable thumb, human beings might never have attained the highly civilized, sophisticated, and technological lifestyles that many of them enjoy today.

www.associatedcontent.com...

Continues next post...

Continued...

The disadvantage of not having a power grip (as in being able to pick up and carry heavy objects with ease, control complex machinery, or even hold something tightly), or a precision grip (as in being able to operate intricate items, pick up small objects etc.) cannot be underestimated. An opposable thumb may also give us other advantages:

The capacity to grip implements using an "opposable thumb", shared by no other creature in the world, has acquired a new significance thousands of years after it gave mankind mastery of the planet, scientists have found… The feature said to distinguish us from t he apes is now used to mark the slickest performers among the young from their sluggish peers. Research studies on people aged under-25 in nine cities around the world has shown that among the digits, the thumb is primus inter pares.

www.independent.co.uk...

Of course, I am assuming that if Greys are sentient biological machines, they might also, therefore, be susceptible to thoughts and considerations of their own making that fall far outside of their programming. If they are conscious, and consequently aware of their plight as a vassal race, does this unpleasant condition sometimes clash with their functioning? Do they have no thumbs because they can harbour a yearning for independence from their life of servitude, and their makers?

And if Greys are purposely disadvantaged in this way, how does this sit with their usage of wondrous, physics defying and reality altering high-tech craft and equipment? The answer is another conjectural hypothesis: their hardware is, as far as we are concerned, substantially advanced from the level of technology we are in possession of but, to the Greys’ creators, is considered basic and, if necessary, acceptable collateral damage if lost.

So, do we feel sorry for them?

From accounts, they act without emotion, are aggressively efficient and sometimes brutally domineering.

Does that sound like a machine, an impassive being, following a grim agenda, or the work of a contrived, conscious species painfully aware of its status as a subjugated, and owned, race?

I should point out that this thread is merely speculative. I have no definitive proof or answers to confirm or support the concepts contained herein.

I tend not to believe all abuction reports because I believe too many people read a book and exactly copy what they believe they saw from that book or many books, they either do it to decieve or not.

Nice find, I have not heard this many times, good work finding so many quotes.

The many cases having no thumbs or no opposable thumbs might be symbolic if the beings are visiting people in a dream. Dreams are full of symbolism as you know, I personally believe greys are demons, because Crowley summoned a demon in 1918 and it looked like a grey, modern day occultists who are in the same club Crowley started admit the greys are the same type of being Crowley met, despite all this I've always believed greys were spirits, they act like spirits, I do believe I saw a grey twice in my life. Once was while in bed trying to sleep, but the grey only appeared in my mind, it was a random vivid flash and freaked me out a bit, the 2nd was during sleep paralysis, some people see an old hag, I saw a grey. I believe many people mistake their lucid dreams, nightmares or sleep paralysis as being real, or at least memories of something that happened in the physical world, I go against this obviously.

If I had to guess the symbolism a 4 fingered non-opposable thumb being within a dream would probably represent 'sub-human', or simply less than us, missing that one key element that gave us the ability to progress, a demon would fit nicely in that catagory.

There are many different types of demons, incubus: a demon specializing in creating nightmares, succubus: a demon specializing in sex dreams or lust temptation. Those are standard and known about. Ones that are seldom talked about are demons that mimic every aspect of our life in a negative way, specialization in: lying, stealing, posing as something it's not, and basically every sin you can think of I'm sure there's a demon that specializes in it, the devil is very organized despite his love for chaos, he probably treats his demons literally like our armies with objections, ranks, etc. For those that don't believe demons exist I can't convince you with a few words so it's not worth trying, but try to expand your supposed open mind. I'm talking about evil beings that are probably interdimensional whose main goal is to drag you down in any way they can.

My opinion on this subject I'm sure is WAY OUT THERE compared to many people on this forum but it's not gonna stop me from posting.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Razimus]

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Razimus]

reply to post by Razimus


Hi Razimus and thanks for the reply.

I also find it wise to disbelieve the majority of abduction reports as, and as you rightly say, the subject does attract a certain sycophantic following. But that does not mean that we should dismiss all of them. I do not think it impossible that the whole phenomenon represents a single reworking of reality. We have yet to understand exactly what that reality is.

Nice find, I have not heard this many times, good work finding so many quotes.

With respect, it is not a find, merely my observances.

I like your analogy to the Greys’ lack of thumbs being symbolic. That you draw the conclusion it might denote a ‘sub-human’ representation is quite in keeping with my hypothesis. The Greys may well see themselves in the same light, albeit ‘sub-Pleidian’, ‘sub-Draconian’ or what have you. The genetic removal of their thumbs may well also serve as a continual reminder to them as to who is really in charge; a form of controlling branding, if you will.

Your mention of Crowley, the O.T.O, and Crowley’s visitation by “Lam” is also worthy of note. This particular episode in “The Great Beasts” life still has ramifications to this day. Though the real meaning of “Lam”, the entity, has yet to be decoded, it has, as is human nature, not only become a figure of worship, but a matter of contention, too.

www.boudillion.com...

For those that don't believe demons exist I can't convince you with a few words so it's not worth trying, but try to expand your supposed open mind. I'm talking about evil beings that are probably interdimensional whose main goal is to drag you down in any way they can.

As I’ve already said, as have many others far more eloquently before me, Greys, UFOs and the entire ETH seems to be, at its heart, a subject that is unfathomable, personal, with the answer to its mysteries as yet beyond our grasp. Your viewpoint may well be correct, or it may just be correct for you. Either way, your conclusions will manifest their own form of reality in one way or another.

My opinion on this subject I'm sure is WAY OUT THERE compared to many people on this forum but it's not gonna stop me from posting.

And nor should it!! Thank you for posting your opinions so well.

I was 4 or 5 years old when I saw my grey, had no book, watched no movie. Did end up with strange memory of being with greys and nazis, woke with numerous physical signs, our family saw several ufos, and my brother had two hours missing time. Never once was allowed to put them together. Watched fire in the sky and had no idea that it was close to home. One thing that was odd about the movie, was I was angry at the visitors after that movies, and I knew all I had to do was sit outside and give them heck and tell them what I thought, and they would hear me.

So that movie made me sit out under the stars and give them all an earful, about how primitive they were to treat someone like that. And that no matter how advanced, how intelligent, how much they were "all that" that I knew people with down syndroms with a bigger heart and more wisdom, therefore they were the greater of the two! For some reason I felt closely monitored at that point, as if they werent' way up there, but somehow closer.

It was only after researching one of my sightings of a craft, which I was able to do freely without instantly forgetting, and discovered project camelot, watched Jim Sparks interview that something seemed very wrong. I studied his case online, and saw the alien script and all hell broke less in me. I knew at that moment what it meant, everything was together at one moment, including the sighting of the "antman", the memory of walking terrified clinging to an aryan man in uniform, with greys around, my brother on the other side, knowing where I was. Within 2 days of that, we started experiencing the sightings agian.

I never once looked up what greys looked like on the computer until Jim Sparks interview either. I showed my mother last summer and she nearly jumped out of her skin in horror. She said she dreamt of them frequently.

So, absolutley not interested in what you think about people, and that they are somehow exposed to media. Most don't share to convince you anyway, they share so others understand, what is going on on the planet, the reality of it all, to help learn from those undergoing similar experiences and to help occasionally someone piecing something together themselves.


By the way, I know opposable thumbs are needed for tool making and advancement. I have often wondered about this myself. The only answer that I've thought of was, 1) greys are reported as one of the oldest races, the scientific nerds of the universe, and are the cloning masters. Since they had reached a certain development stage already, they probably cloned away their thumbs.
2) their fingers may be very capable, being long and possibly jointed differently than ours.
3) I cant get a full memory back, and am apprehensive of attempting hypnosis, dont know if the reports of their hands are accurate or not. Absolutely not sure I want to see their hands moving around me, sorry, have a feeling thats a medical procedure room. Not for me.

reply to post by mystiq


Hello Mystiq.

It's always interesting to read your posts. And your experiences sound disturbing to say the least.

greys are reported as one of the oldest races, the scientific nerds of the universe, and are the cloning masters. Since they had reached a certain development stage already, they probably cloned away their thumbs.

But why remove something that’s useful?

their fingers may be very capable, being long and possibly jointed differently than ours.

They may well be, but as my examples show, an opposable thumb is necessary. They are built, outwardly, as we are, so why no thumbs?

I cant get a full memory back, and am apprehensive of attempting hypnosis, dont know if the reports of their hands are accurate or not. Absolutely not sure I want to see their hands moving around me, sorry, have a feeling thats a medical procedure room. Not for me.

I understand. Thanks for your input.


Edit: to correct my post as I completely missread Mystiq's reply. Apologies.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Beamish]

I don't want to get too deep into this and ruin the thread with my opinions, but perhaps on some off chance, the greys have other forms of manipulating instruments? The need for opposable thumbs would vanish if they had somehow learned to control electronics with their minds, or made the machines simplistic enough so as to allow manipulation of the machine without the need for a thumb.

For an example of what I am talking about, when you type something, do you use your thumb to type the letters or do you simply use it to hit the space bar? What if you took away the need for the space-bar? Would you still need a thumb in order to type a message?

These are just my ideas. No proof, just conjecture.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Seruak]

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Seruak]

Its something I've wondered about myself, because in our evolution thumbs are what separates man from the animal kingdom and allowed our advancement.
With greys, the cloning seems the most likely because the do interface with their advanced psi abilities with their equipment, and they're specialized, there are tasks that they alone do, compared to other species. I don't know for sure that they don't have something there for a thumb, however if they don't then the length of their fingers, and the perhaps more joints, like they would be different.

reply to post by Beamish


I thought that I was the only one that had noticed that the greys have no thumbs, either that or that I was seeing something different.

I have been drawing them like this ever since 1996,


Check out my site, you will notice that all of my drawings of the greys have four fingers and no thumb. www.aliendoodles.com

Thank you Beamish for bringing this to my attention.


[edit on 19-1-2009 by Martindoolittle]

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Martindoolittle]

With stories of allegedly fooling these abducters from taking someone by tying yourself up somehow is odd. It may also suggest there are those who are used for abductions as simple workers also. The claims of us as being containers and aliens using various types of bodies themselves, can add even more speculation as to what species type they looked like originally.

I've recalled one of my bizarre accounts of an event and as-if waking in the middle of it and seeing regular people using fake alien props and pawing at me. A memory glitch of a botched mind control experiment? .......maybe.

It could have also been done purposely to make me think that way to cover up something else. I recall having once seen what was basically a box of alien looking hands or 'props' with tags and writings of the species it came from. One of which was apparently a large grey and so large and heavy, you almost needed two hands to pick it up. It was even very warm or hot which also added to the weird experience.

If my understanding of what these people supposedly do with genetics like the Island O f Dr. Moreau, than many various life forms as biological or android are probably likely.

One abduction or visitation experience was as-if the dog bit one of them and I recall later wiping up what appeared to be blue oil and not blood. I also had found a darker bluish gray pointed fingernail on the floor. I think many of these may be using a special effects costume to appear reptilian.

The praying Mantis type I think are probably androids or machines. ATS has a specific ATS thread somewhere here with these pictures. I can't seem to find it though.

My best guess is that this is someone's special effects/ illusions techniques. Missing time etc. etc. seems too much like disinformation.

Not to say these don't have advanced technology. That's another story.

Does that sound like a machine, an impassive being, following a grim agenda, or the work of a contrived, conscious species painfully aware of its status as a subjugated, and owned, race? I should point out that this thread is merely speculative. I have no definitive proof or answers to confirm or support the concepts contained herein.

Agreed, it's speculation. I don't have an opinion either way because there isn't any evidence to warrant an opinion about greys. It's like wondering if Jabba the Hut preferred KFC or Subway. However, knowing what Jabba looked like, we can imagine he would enjoy a KFC bucket

As you've mentioned, Greys are described as short, lacking color and having large dark eyes. They are small and have almost no ear, nose, mouth canal. If hair is ever mentioned, it's to say they have no hair. Their bodies are lacking muscle tone. They are usually described as cold and emotionless. Once in a while, one of them is felt to be a leader and this one shows some compassion, empathy or simply communicates with the human.

They're assumed to have come from somewhere out of the Solar System, although some prefer Moon, Mars, Hollow Earth (:lol or other planets nearby. If they've travelled through space to get here, speculation can become interesting.

Based on Earth models of physical traits, their lack of pigmentation would result from a lack of sunlight/UV. The big eyes an evolutionary necessity for living in the dark for extremely extended periods of time. Nocturnal creatures on Earth use greater dilation to see in the dark, so maybe that's why?? The lack of muscle tone is demonstrated by any long term astronaut since Titov. It's still an obstacle to Mans exploration of Space. If the Greys are designed for, or evolved in, Space they would have less muscle mass. The smaller mass and therefore smaller need for food and water would make longer periods of travel practical. Respiration and the recycling of waste would be less.

IV supplies of food and water would be a possible way of supplying the essential nutrients when in Space. Smell and taste would cease to be a factor in sustaining life. Smell would also become redundant in a closed habitat. Mouth and nose would be less necessary and become vestigial. If the grey is designed for travelling great distances of space, nose and mouth would be an artifact of the creators like the faces we design our robots with.

After such speculation, I remember the point about opposable thumbs! An advanced Race might have the science to predict where life is likely to arise. We've found hundreds of planets in the past 15 years, we've worked out the Goldilocks Zone and can hypothesize which might sustain life. Unfortunately, we're held back from doing anything at this time. Technology is not up to it. We can't afford it. Bickering with neighbors and fighting is where we spend are money. Einstein has put a curfew on the fastest we can travel. Nevertheless, we KNOW where the best chances of life are.

An Advanced Race, curtailed by their own Einstein's Theory decide to send manned probes to explore the Cosmos. They know that Physics precludes any journey by themselves. Generations would live and die on any ships they sent etc. They design a creature that can take to the stars and be programmed to carry out exploration of any life-sustaining Planets they find. They would be given just enough intelligence to carry out the task. They'd be programmed to gain as much information as possible and avoid interaction. The Race would then send them out to the Stars.

Opposable thumbs could be unnecessary for such expeditions. The technology might be more advanced than requiring a joystick or steering wheel. They could ride a bike with no handle bars. They could travel for hundreds of years before reporting back. Stephen Hawking is an example of what we can accomplish in recent years. As technology advances and is less reliant on manual effort, the opposable thumb could become redundant.

Anyway, just speculating...and avoiding the reports and forms I need to complete for work tomorrow. Very interesting question



[edit on 19-1-2009 by Kandinsky]

Originally posted by mystiq
Its something I've wondered about myself, because in our evolution thumbs are what separates man from the animal kingdom and allowed our advancement.
With greys, the cloning seems the most likely because the do interface with their advanced psi abilities with their equipment, and they're specialized, there are tasks that they alone do, compared to other species. I don't know for sure that they don't have something there for a thumb, however if they don't then the length of their fingers, and the perhaps more joints, like they would be different.

Apes, monkeys, some bears and the opossum have thumbs. We are all part of the animal kingdom. Long may it remain so!

reply to post by Kandinsky


this seems to be the more logical and well thought out post in this thread.



as for mystic's post:

i cant help but suspect that a child of 4 or 5 has a dream about aliens, but hasnt had a book or movie promote such ideas. not sure if i would take anything seriously from a child that young, my 5 year old child tells me he never goes to sleep some nights, when i have seen him sleeping every time he has told me this. children dont need books or movies to come up with wild stories or feel like someone is watching them, just a good imagination...

reply to post by aleon1018


This is the whole thing, we are judging this situation as if its by our standards, which is completely erroneous. We don't know the full extent of the situation at all. This remind's me of Lou Baldin's experiences with Milton who dropped his body like a suit of clothes. There situation is very complex, and quite frankly we dont understand what it all entails.

loubaldin.blogspot.com...

His forum link is there as well. A Day with an Extraterrestrial was a very interesting book. It opened up many possibilities.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by mystiq]

reply to post by wheazy


I saw the grey in my grandmothers garden at 4 or 5, an antman, who rooted me to the spot and scanned me and I felt his amazing cool intellect. I should have been terrified, but wasn't. It was broad daylight, so immediately after I went to tell my mother and drag her to the spot. He was gone. I spent many years believing a race of antmen lived under the ground. This was the 60s. I was 4 in 67. I saw nothing resembling greys in any media. In fact, it was not that long ago that I finally connected my antman to pictures of greys online.

I know what dreams are like, if I can remember them. I also know what a memory feels like, such as remembering a childhood camping trip and jumping from bolder to bolder in the creek. Catching a fish with a willow stick. I caught my first at 2. Picking huckleberries by the potfull and the horrible mosquitos.

This is a memory. Walking to that base and being in a room full of children is a memory. The whole family and guests at my grandfathers campsite saw a ufo and smaller ones (orbs?) leave it and zig zag quickly across the sky.

My brother and a partner driving truck watched a ufo go behind a cloud and come out a moment later, that moment was a 2 hour lapse in time, and the truck was 2 hours ahead on route, from 3:30 pm roughly to 5:30. He'd driven that route many times.

I'm going to have to disagree with you and maintain that this situation is happening to a great many people. And we're going to keep telling other about it.

They are us in the future after the earth has been destroyed...






Nah I really have no clue, I'm not convinced they even exist.

reply to post by mystiq


Considering how children may be and outside curiosities along with what some say about the greys, it makes perfect sense for them to approach you outside as if in their preferred environmental classroom. One of the sets I recalled was a copy of my backyard, but for some reason, if not by my own observations, it didn't seem right as if weird or staged. I'm sure I was just confused back then anyway. Not to say you weren't in your own back yard though.

reply to post by Beamish


Beamish, great thread and a Very interesting observation you have brought out that i was not aware of. so thank you and it is something to think about even if it's speculation because it could be of importance.

i have always thought the Grey Aliens were creating Hybrids to become more like us and with trying not to go off topic about that i will just say that maybe these Grey's are creating these hybrids because they see the advantage to having a Thumb and other things that we Humans possess.

so my question is:

do the reported Grey Hybrid children have a Thumb ?

Originally posted by wheazy
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

this seems to be the more logical and well thought out post in this thread.

Thanks Took a while to write and I think it's plausible as speculation goes...Didn't do my paperwork either...currently got a dose of ATSitis!

I don't think that their lack of thumbs hinders the greys in any way what'so'ever.

The long, or index finger turns inwardly slightly, as does the little nub of a finger on the other side of their hands. the extra length of their long fingers allows them extra dexterity as well. If you look at the drawing that I posted above, you will notice that I wrote "cold hard hands" when I drew the picture.
I wrote this in reference to a childhood encounter when a single grey allowed me to feel the texture of it's skin on it's hands. The skin was extremely cold and smooth when brushed down and away from the fingers, but rough as sand paper when brushed the other way. I know that this is an indication of tiny scales and I think that this is what I was feeling. The skin is extremely tight with no give at all and their hands are incredibly strong. When the being bent a single finger I could not straighten it at all. We tend to think of these guys as poor weak sickly creatures, but they are as strong as oxes.

Personally I do think that genetic engineering has played a big part in their make up, but I really don't see them as slaves.

I think that their bodies have been engineered to serve a purpose, they are small and light , but incredibly strong, both of these traits would be an advantage for a space faring culture.