The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

reply to post by tgambill

doesn't matter how it sounds.

But it does matter whether it can be shown to be true. Anyone reading through the Bible can see that it is riddled with flaws, contradictions and absurdities. It cannot be the inspired word of a perfect God.

Judgment by Jesus, the part where all the unbelievers go to Hell but anyone, no matter how evil, who's ever asked him for forgiveness gets into Heaven

So if Hitler pronounced faith in Christ his sins would be forgiven but if a kind and loving Buddhist man lives a good life and then dies he goes to Hell for not believing in Jesus. The justice of your God is anything but just.

Revelation 21:8 says that cowards, magicians and liars will be amongst those tossed into the lake of fire. Apparently telling a single lie is punishable by ETERNAL damnation, as is pulling a rabbit from a hat

If the cognitive dissonance ever becomes clear to you just let me know, until then enjoy believing whatever it is you believe.





[edit on 2-6-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

If God is good, righteous, and holy than why does he smite the first-born Egyptians.

What is it that should be defended against? Against what. God dosn't need anyone to defend him. The Bible has proven it's self indestructible and has been with us a lot longer than some philosophy of abstenance in the case of religion..

You say God smote the first born of egypt. He didn't. The curse on the first born of Egypt came from the lips of Pharoah. So there goes your little toy.
See it was mans willingness to do such a thing, that caused it to happen to the first born of Egypt.

Also if the Egyptians after seeing the other plagues knew they were dealing with a God They should have asked the Isrealites what to do. They were warned and should have listened to God.
The lambs blood above the lintels and doorways could have saved all,
even the Egyptians. Not one Egyptian had to die that night. They chose to let their first born die, rather than to submit to Gods will.. So now what?



[edit on 2-6-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I am a Catholic. I have attended private, Catholic schools between kindergarten and senior year of high school. I am also confirmed. Taking theology was mandatory for my 12 years of schooling. First of all I'd like to say that I'm religiously tolerant, and I'm not out to convert everyone I meet. I believe that tolerance and respect for others' beliefs is paramount to establishing peace in this world.

Now, on to addressing your topic. Here is what I have been taught in school. This will address both why you keep seeing two different sides of God in the Bible, and also respond to your queries.

The Catholic Bible consists of 73 books, 46 books in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament. In the Catholic belief system, the New Testament contains our core scriptural beliefs, the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The Old Testament contains the Pentateuch/Torah (The first 5 books of the Bible) and the Tanakh (in Hebrew stands for the other books in the Old Testament). The Old Testament give the Bible's interpretation of the history of the Chosen People (the Jews). Catholics hold that parts of the Old Testament (the 10 commandments, Creation in Genesis etc) are included in Catholic teachings.

The OT preaches that God, like you said, was vengeful, punished his people for disobedience, and demanded sacrifice. A concept that comes from the Old Testament is the "Eye for and eye, and a tooth for a tooth" belief system. The Gospels of the New Testament, which gives accounts of the life and teachings of Jesus, preaches differently. Jesus was called teacher by his apostles. He taught that, "If someone takes one of your eyes, give them another, if someone takes one of your teeth, give them the rest." The God of the NT, the God that Jesus preached about and proclaimed as his father, was a merciful God. Catholics view the OT as a valid account of how life was during biblical times, also, as a good account of the Davidic Kings (whom Jesus shared a bloodline with)

The two different parts of the Bible, the OT and the NT contain accounts of the Jewish God and the Christian/Catholic God respectively. That is probably why, as you said, in some parts of the Bible, God is merciful, and in others he is not. Christians and Jews believe in two different Gods, that's why there was that sticking point with the Crucifixion and all. The Pharisees and Rabbi's said Jesus was blaspheming because he proclaimed himself as the Son of God. They believe that the Messiah has not yet arrived, while Catholics believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God. That point will be debated until the end of time and can only be resolved at the end of days.

its a book written and inspired by altered states.
The only "God" is conscience.

reply to post by randyvs

The curse on the first born of Egypt came from the lips of Pharoah. So there goes your little toy. See it was mans willingness to do such a thing, that caused it to happen to the first born of Egypt.

Try reading Exodus 11 verses 4 and 5, God clearly says that at about midnight he's going to head out and slaughter some children. Doesn't matter if Pharaoh provoked it. You would still say Hitler was a genocidal murdering psychopath even if some Jews had wanted genocide against them.

Exodus 10:1 claims that God hardened Pharaoh's heart on purpose to "show him the signs" - sounds like God WANTS to bring the plagues to fruition to me, so much so that he has hardened Pharaoh's heart. Wouldn't want Pharaoh to change his mind, then God wouldn't be able to go on his baby killing spree.

In fact again in verse 27 of the 10th Chapter God hardens Pharaoh's heart again.

Also if the Egyptians after seeing the other plagues knew they were dealing with a God They should have asked the Isrealites what to do

This has absolutely nothing to do with the act of a supposedly loving God killing children. Most of the Egyptian citizenry were innocent, there children are even MORE innocent (too poor to own slaves). Human beings are known and understood to be flawed and imperfect and yet if someone kills a child they are still evil. So if a loving God does it it suddenly becomes okay?

And by the way you aren't defending God, just a myth written by primitives and the fact it was written by primitives shows. Look how they depict their deity, as a ruthless genocidal child killer. It amazes me that anyone could defend this story.

Not one Egyptian had to die that night.

This is not the case, unless you are calling God a liar. God says in Exodus 11: 4 and 5 that he's going out at midnight to cause a great outcry in Egypt. In fact, in verse 10 of Chapter 11 God hardens Pharaoh's heart one last time before the final plague - I guess he wanted to make sure he'd get his chance to slaughter children.

You claim to not have to defend God. You don't have to, I agree. But don't defend absurd stories that make a disgusting mockery of the deity you believe in. The Old Testament is littered with this stuff, no loving God would ever do this, even a benign and average God wouldn't do this. Its just a story and its okay to admit that.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

IMO....Man's book manipulating the origin of God's word.

Originally posted by randyvs

If God is good, righteous, and holy than why does he smite the first-born Egyptians.

What is it that should be defended against? Against what. God dosn't need anyone to defend him. The Bible has proven it's self indestructible and has been with us a lot longer than some philosophy of abstenance in the case of religion..

You say God smote the first born of egypt. He didn't. The curse on the first born of Egypt came from the lips of Pharoah. So there goes your little toy.
See it was mans willingness to do such a thing, that caused it to happen to the first born of Egypt.

Also if the Egyptians after seeing the other plagues knew they were dealing with a God They should have asked the Isrealites what to do. They were warned and should have listened to God.
The lambs blood above the lintels and doorways could have saved all,
even the Egyptians. Not one Egyptian had to die that night. They chose to let their first born die, rather than to submit to Gods will.. So now what?

Well put, Moses and Aaron gave Ramses numerous opportunities to let the Jews go. Showed a number of miracles to let Pharaoh know he was dealing with men from God.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

to let Pharaoh know he was dealing with men from God.

A genocidal God who MURDERS INNOCENT CHILDREN.
.
The Pharaoh tried to kill Hebrews remember and that means Ramses was evil because he killed Hebrew children.

But if God does it its okay? It doesn't bother you that a supposedly omnibenevolent God, who hardens the heart of Pharaoh so that even if Ramses had wanted to let them go he couldn't have, KILLS INNOCENT CHILDREN.

The story is an insult to the intelligence of any thinking human being and anyone who believes in a good and merciful deity. The God of the Bible, particularly the old testament, is not Good. He is downright evil in the way they depict him.

I cannot believe people defend this story as though anyone, deity or not, could ever be justified in killing a child EVER

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b3b3705652fd.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

to let Pharaoh know he was dealing with men from God.

A genocidal God who MURDERS INNOCENT CHILDREN.
.
The Pharaoh tried to kill Hebrews remember and that means Ramses was evil because he killed Hebrew children.

But if God does it its okay? It doesn't bother you that a supposedly omnibenevolent God, who hardens the heart of Pharaoh so that even if Ramses had wanted to let them go he couldn't have, KILLS INNOCENT CHILDREN.

The story is an insult to the intelligence of any thinking human being and anyone who believes in a good and merciful deity. The God of the Bible, particularly the old testament, is not Good. He is downright evil in the way they depict him.

I cannot believe people defend this story as though anyone, deity or not, could ever be justified in killing a child EVER

I don't think at all He's evil, He's justified in passing judgment on rebellious and wicked mankind. God is infinitely perfect and just, but He is also merciful and very patient.

God gave pharaoh numerous chances to let the Jews go, after numerous warnings. Ramses thought he was a God... bad mistake.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

God is infinitely perfect and just,

Not if the Bible is to be believed. Try reading Job. There is absolutely nothing just about what happens to him.

There is also nothing just about punishing Adam and Eve's descendants when it was God who planted the tree in the Garden, opted not to give Adam and Eve the ability to tell right from wrong, and forgot to guard against talking snakes.

There is nothing just about infinite punishment for finite sin.

There is nothing just about slaughtering children because of the sin's of the Pharaoh.

He's justified in passing judgment on rebellious and wicked mankind.

Yeah, those Egyptian children were pure Satanic evil. Good job God, killing kids is a good thing for a good God to do.

A few things the Bible says are bad, wicked or sinful:

Worshiping any God who isn't Yaweh/Elohim - So freedom of religion is a sinful thing.

Working on the Sabbath - Punishable by death.

Having sex before marriage - if you're a woman this is punishable by death.

Witchcraft - again freedom of religion is out, again punishable by death

Lying - Really? Something as simple and benign as lying is punishable BY ETERNAL FIERY TORMENT? And you don't have any cognitive dissonance about that? Be careful how you answer that question, it could lead you straight to hell

God gave pharaoh numerous chances to let the Jews go, after numerous warnings.

Yes but God also hardened Pharaoh's heart. Might want to pick up your Bible and reread Exodus. God specifically makes sure Pharaoh doesn't want to let the Hebrews go by hardening his heart. God even hardens his heart in Chapter eleven right before slaughtering children.

Do not defend a child slaughtering deity as righteous and just, it doesn't work. Its just a story but the fact that people actually defend this story as fact and think God was justified in killing children honestly makes me want to

HILARIOUS!!!!!!


You seriously asked me to "try reading Job"?? I've read Job numerous times, it's a great story, and since YOU brought it up thee are a couple minor details you're overlooking in that story.

1. Satan did the harm to Job, not God, Satan was the one challenging God and claiming Job only loved God because God blessed him so much. Yeah, mean ol God, there he goes BLESSING humans again, what a nerve the big guy upstairs has to do that. *rolls eyes*

2. What does JOB HIMSELF have to say about God after all the evil Satan does to him?? Hmmm, why don't you tell the class what Job himself has to say about God Mr. Biblical Scholar.

Job's friends even told him to curse God for what happened and Job refused, saying God was just, that God giveth and God taketh away. He did nothing but praise the Lord through it all. So who are YOU to armchair quarterback and blame God when the man himself praised God through his own trouble. Are you nuts??

And because Job never blamed God unfairly for what SATAN did to him, God blessed Job with twice as much as before and he lived a long time to see his grandchildren to the 4th generation.

You tell me to 'try reading Job', but you're the one with the elementary knowledge of the book..

"PRICELESS" is the term is it not?

"There is nothing just about infinite punishment for finite sin."

Wow, okay, you're dealing with an infinite deity, a deity the is holy and infinitely perfect. So you tell me how a person who outright REFUSES to accept a free pardon can be in the midst of this infinitely holy being for eternity. Explain that. God who allows no sin in His kingdom, and offers a free pardon to anyone who asks for one regardless of what they have done or who they are, is supposed to turn a blind eye to unrepentant souls??

If God did that he would be a CORRUPT judge. The way to be blameless before God is SIMPLE, if man chooses to give God the finger after that gift is offered it's not His fault man. Hell was created for Satan and the fallen angels, and if man wants to follow Satan and live in sin and unrighteousness and rebellion,. then that's exactly where He'll let them go. God loves us so much that He will also not force us to love Him back, He created us in His own image, meaning He gave us free will and He'll never violate that against our wishes. It's our choice where we want to spend eternity, He just grants OUR wishes.

"There is nothing just about slaughtering children because of the sin's of the Pharaoh. "

I'm tired of hearing this fallacious argument dude. Those babies deaths are on the head of PHARAOH. You're acting as if Pharaoh didn't have numerous warnings and chances, and seeing the previous plagues known what he was dealing with. Stop blaming God for doing what he said He would do. God's will was to free His people from 400 years of slavery. And God was justified in killing every firstborn of Egypt because the Pharaoh in Egypt previously had EVERY FIRSTBORN of the Jews slaughtered. Does that fact even cross you mind???

Unreal man, God gives Egypt a taste of it's OWN medicine, and "God isn't just". And truthfully, God did those Egyptian babies a FAVOR, most likely they all would have been sent to hell if they grew to the age of accountability and died because Egypt was a pagan nation. Now those children are in heaven for eternity, where before they most likely would have went to Hell. God's wisdom spans generations, hundreds or thousands of years. Ours doesn't. God is concerned with making sure mankind joins Him in heaven for eternity, not making sure they have a utopia here on Earth for but a vapor of time. So let's see, the Egyptian boys were given eternity in heaven instead of growing up in a pagan Egyptian culture where they most likely would have followed RA or some other god then been in Hell for eternity. Gotcha man, by the way you're talking I'd bet you'd trade Bill Gates's fortune for a quarter. Cuz u know, the "here and now" is sooooooooo much more important than eternity.






[edit on 3-6-2010 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


No doubt about it. It's the Word Of God. Here are just few reasons:
(intro to the thread I created)

The Holy Scriptures, the inspired Word of Jehovah God, acknowledged as the greatest book of all times because of:

1.Its antiquity.
2.Its total circulation.
3.The number of languages into which it has been translated.
4.Its surpassing greatness as a literary masterpiece.
5.And its overwhelming importance to all mankind.

Independent of all other books:

1.It imitates no other.
2.It stands on its own merits, giving credit to its unique Author.
3.The Bible is also distinguished as having survived more violent controversy than any other book, hated as it is by many enemies.

Show me a book that can rival it.

Then there's these:

No other book took so long to complete it. A period of some 1,610 years was involved in producing the Bible. Yet when put together as ONE book – there's harmony. Who else can produce such a book if it's not guided by God?


As an accurate historical work and one that penetrates the past to great depths, the Bible far surpasses all other books. However, it is of much greater value in the field of prophecy, foretelling as it does the future that only the King of Eternity can reveal with accuracy.


God’s Word of truth in a very practical way sets men free from ignorance, superstitions, human philosophies, and senseless traditions of men. (Joh 8:32)


Need more?

Consider this too:

Authenticity. The veracity/accuracy of the Bible has been attacked from many quarters, but none of these efforts has undermined or weakened its position in the least.

Take for example:

Bible history: Its history is accurate and can be relied upon.

Races and languages: What the Bible says about races and languages of mankind is also true. All peoples, regardless of stature, culture, color, or language, are members of one human family.

Practicality: The Bible’s teachings, examples, and doctrines are most practical for modern man. The righteous principles and high moral standards contained in this book set it apart as far above all other books.

Scientific accuracy. When it comes to scientific accuracy the Bible is not lacking – 100% accurate.

Cultures and customs. On points relating to cultures and customs, in no regard is the Bible found to be wrong. In political matters, the Bible always speaks of a ruler by the proper title that he bore at the time of the writing.

Candor. Bible writers displayed a candor that is not found among other ancient writers. From the very outset, Moses frankly reported his own sins as well as the sins and errors of his people, a policy followed by the other Hebrew writers. They willingly admitted and revealed their faults.

Integrity: Facts testify to the integrity of the Bible. The Bible narrative is inseparably interwoven with the history of the times.

Prophecy
: If there is a single point that alone proves the Bible to be the inspired Word of Jehovah it is the matter of prophecy. There are scores of long-range prophecies in the Bible that have been fulfilled.

--OP--
Funny, your thread stayed here at ATS while the one I created was moved to BTS. ?? What gives??

Here's the link in response to your thread:
www.belowtopsecret.com...



[edit on 3-6-2010 by edmc^2]

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Satan did the harm to Job, not God,

Directly yes, but Satan would never have had permission to even touch Job had God not given in to him. Job 42:11, in some translations, states that it was God who brought evil upon Job. Job 2:6 has God placing Job in Satan's control - that doesn't bother you at all? Even if you live a righteous life God might just place a bet with Satan and have your children killed and fortune taken away. Wow, what a nice God you believe in

Read Job 2:3, God actually states, openly and bluntly, that Satan INCITED him against Job "for no good reason". There's no purpose for any of it, just needless suffering, the Bible tells me so.

Read Job again, Job does question God quite a bit in the book and then Yaweh shows up and yells at him in Job 38-41, though he never technically curses God.

So you tell me how a person who outright REFUSES to accept a free pardon can be in the midst of this infinitely holy being for eternity

You've completely skirted the issue at hand, which is whether infinite punishment can fit finite crime. Of course God has the right, if he is righteous, to punish people BUT they should be punished according to their sins and a finite list of crimes should never merit infinite punishment. Hell could be temporary and be followed by rehabilitation for broken souls - or God could create a dimension of fair punishment. As it stands things like lying and being a magician are no excuse to be tossed into a fiery pit FOREVER and neither is unbelief.

God doesn't have to have these sinful people in his presence but the least he could is punish them justly, fairly. If God loved us Hell wouldn't even be an option for us go to.

God did those Egyptian babies a FAVOR

You just defended baby killing by a supposedly loving God again. Good job.

most likely they all would have been sent to hell if they grew to the age of accountability and died because Egypt was a pagan nation

Facepalm. Again freedom of religion is out. I noticed that the ten commandments make two restrictions about worshiping but no restrictions on pedophilia or rape. The Bible is a primitive book that has its moral code all mixed up... but what can we expect from a group of desert nomads who thought their deity was justified in slaughtering thousands of innocent children as a "taste of the Egyptians own medicine"

Even most Biblical scholars today will admit that this story paints Yawehh/Elohim in a very bad light and that it isn't historical fact.

God - commits genocide but that's okay cause he's righteous and those pagans had it coming.

Hitler - commits genocide but that's not okay cause he's a flawed human

So the omnibenevolent God can engage in the most horrendous activity known to man and still be deemed righteous by his rabid fanbase... hey wait, aren't their still Nazi's around who admire Hitler too and think the holocaust was justified. And yet us folks who question religion are deemed as the one with the misplaced moral center

reply to post by edmc^2


I already refuted each of your claims in your BTS thread.

I made this like a year ago so perhaps standards were a bit more lax at the time, I'm pretty sure I also mentioned a conspiracy in my OP.

And there is a conspiracy, a fundamentalist conspiracy to get people to believe this mish-mosh of ancient texts is the flawless word of a perfect God. Furthermore there are people using this religion to keep power and undermine ideals of society as well as deny certain groups their rights.

Originally posted by randyvs

You say God smote the first born of egypt. He didn't. The curse on the first born of Egypt came from the lips of Pharoah. So there goes your little toy.
See it was mans willingness to do such a thing, that caused it to happen to the first born of Egypt.

but according to the bible this whole thing wouldnt have happened without gods magic touch, i believe we have come full circle here
your saying god had nothing to do with this but i dont see people dropping like flies because of someone elses blasphemies these days

Also if the Egyptians after seeing the other plagues knew they were dealing with a God They should have asked the Isrealites what to do. They were warned and should have listened to God.
The lambs blood above the lintels and doorways could have saved all,
even the Egyptians. Not one Egyptian had to die that night. They chose to let their first born die, rather than to submit to Gods will.. So now what?

not one nerd would have to get beat up by a bully if they all would just willingly give up their lunch money can you still say so what?

how you doing today randys? its a nice day here in the midwest

[edit on 3-6-2010 by ashanu90]

[edit on 3-6-2010 by ashanu90]

reply to post by NOTurTypical


okay so god makes a bet with satan to see if job will still worship him
this is a sin known as GAMBLING as well as communicating with the DESTROYER, which is expressley forbiden to mankind so another sin for god so far gods sin count is 2

then we have god killing people left and right because of something they didnt even do (pharoahs hardened heart which god made that way, then he went off and killed egyptian children and blamed the pharoah for what he did, when it was GODS fault for making the pharoah such a jerk anyway)
gods sin count is 4 unless blaming someone else for your actions is not a sin then its 3

then we have god sending people to hell because they dont worship him wich is intolerence

so we have a hypocritical god who, kills, gambles, blames others for his actions, and is intolerant, and he wants you to spend eternity in a sinless heaven with him
also about the gambling thing god knew job would not forsake him right? i mean you christians say he knows everything? so he made a bet knowing the outcome, which IS equal to loading your dice

and people defend this crap?

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
But it does matter whether it can be shown to be true. Anyone reading through the Bible can see that it is riddled with flaws, contradictions and absurdities. It cannot be the inspired word of a perfect God.

Judgment by Jesus, the part where all the unbelievers go to Hell but anyone, no matter how evil, who's ever asked him for forgiveness gets into Heaven

So if Hitler pronounced faith in Christ his sins would be forgiven but if a kind and loving Buddhist man lives a good life and then dies he goes to Hell for not believing in Jesus. The justice of your God is anything but just.

Revelation 21:8 says that cowards, magicians and liars will be amongst those tossed into the lake of fire. Apparently telling a single lie is punishable by ETERNAL damnation, as is pulling a rabbit from a hat

If the cognitive dissonance ever becomes clear to you just let me know, until then enjoy believing whatever it is you believe.

God wants you to know:
I have been misrepresented by those who don't know me.
John 8:41-44

reply to post by texastig


If the way to know God is through the Bible and faith than I did know him, I spent years as a Christian crying out to that God.

But the Bible raised more questions for me than it answered and God never said anything to me on the subject of it. You don't exactly see God at book signings for the Bible do you. If there is a loving God I would think him ashamed of such a book being associated with him.

The Bible is the flawed wisdom of men and it shows.

Don't confuse deity with dogma and doctrine.

Also, the scriptures I pointed out are pretty plain in their meaning and they prove that primitives wrote the book. No good God would ever kill innocent children to punish the sins of another - end of discussion.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by texastig

 

If the way to know God is through the Bible and faith than I did know him, I spent years as a Christian crying out to that God.

But the Bible raised more questions for me than it answered and God never said anything to me on the subject of it. You don't exactly see God at book signings for the Bible do you. If there is a loving God I would think him ashamed of such a book being associated with him.

The Bible is the flawed wisdom of men and it shows.

Don't confuse deity with dogma and doctrine.

Also, the scriptures I pointed out are pretty plain in their meaning and they prove that primitives wrote the book. No good God would ever kill innocent children to punish the sins of another - end of discussion.

You are continuing to misrepresent God.
You keep harping about God killing the first born of Egypt. What about Pharaoh?
Exodus 1:16 [Pharaoh is speaking]
"And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see [them] upon the stools; if it [be] a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it [be] a daughter, then she shall live."

Exodus 1:22
"And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive."

Egypt was killing God's people and you want God to stand by and to excuse all of that? He is also the God of justice.

As for the flood what does the Bible say?
Gen 6:5
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually."
Those were giants and they were pure evil. Gen6:4

You said this about Job, "In Job, once again, God is killing children."
I guess you didn't read your Bible closely enough. It was the devil
that killed his kids.

Then you talk about "Israelites would lay siege to a city." There were giants in those cities which were pure evil.

Both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of slavery.
Slavery is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8-10).
How come you don't get on to Pharaoh for making the Jews slaves? hummm.

It seems that you forgot that God is a God of law and justice.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Satan did the harm to Job, not God,

Directly yes, but Satan would never have had permission to even touch Job had God not given in to him. Job 42:11, in some translations, states that it was God who brought evil upon Job. Job 2:6 has God placing Job in Satan's control - that doesn't bother you at all? Even if you live a righteous life God might just place a bet with Satan and have your children killed and fortune taken away. Wow, what a nice God you believe in

Read Job 2:3, God actually states, openly and bluntly, that Satan INCITED him against Job "for no good reason". There's no purpose for any of it, just needless suffering, the Bible tells me so.

Read Job again, Job does question God quite a bit in the book and then Yaweh shows up and yells at him in Job 38-41, though he never technically curses God.

So you tell me how a person who outright REFUSES to accept a free pardon can be in the midst of this infinitely holy being for eternity

You've completely skirted the issue at hand, which is whether infinite punishment can fit finite crime. Of course God has the right, if he is righteous, to punish people BUT they should be punished according to their sins and a finite list of crimes should never merit infinite punishment. Hell could be temporary and be followed by rehabilitation for broken souls - or God could create a dimension of fair punishment. As it stands things like lying and being a magician are no excuse to be tossed into a fiery pit FOREVER and neither is unbelief.

God doesn't have to have these sinful people in his presence but the least he could is punish them justly, fairly. If God loved us Hell wouldn't even be an option for us go to.

God did those Egyptian babies a FAVOR

You just defended baby killing by a supposedly loving God again. Good job.

most likely they all would have been sent to hell if they grew to the age of accountability and died because Egypt was a pagan nation

Facepalm. Again freedom of religion is out. I noticed that the ten commandments make two restrictions about worshiping but no restrictions on pedophilia or rape. The Bible is a primitive book that has its moral code all mixed up... but what can we expect from a group of desert nomads who thought their deity was justified in slaughtering thousands of innocent children as a "taste of the Egyptians own medicine"

Even most Biblical scholars today will admit that this story paints Yawehh/Elohim in a very bad light and that it isn't historical fact.

God - commits genocide but that's okay cause he's righteous and those pagans had it coming.

Hitler - commits genocide but that's not okay cause he's a flawed human

So the omnibenevolent God can engage in the most horrendous activity known to man and still be deemed righteous by his rabid fanbase... hey wait, aren't their still Nazi's around who admire Hitler too and think the holocaust was justified. And yet us folks who question religion are deemed as the one with the misplaced moral center

So are you denying that years earlier the pharaoh had every firstborn of the Jews killed?

It's okay for the King of Egypt to commit genocide, but when God exacts thge same fate on those who did it to his chosen people he's evil?

I call that "JUST". God is omniscient and has infinite wisdom, how ridiculously narcissistic I'd have to be to judge the creator of the universe for doing His will on His creation. I'm a servant, and if God sees fit to punish the Egyptians for their wickedness, rebellion, and crimes against the Jews then so be it, praise God.

"Fear not the person who can kill the body, but fear god who can destroy both body and soul in Hell."

You're pissing on the wrong campfire man, lol. So you say God is evil, and a tyrant, and a genocidal god huh? Then why are you against Him? I'd be doing everything I could not to piss Him off if I felt the way you did.

How's that shiny quarter feel in your hand Bill?