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Post UFO Disclosure ideas in the "Citizen's Briefing Book" to Barack Obama on change.gov!!!

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posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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I love UFOs and all. But I surely hope Obama isnt making this his top issue. I dont care to much for him but theres just so much more urgent things going on. But I guess were all screwed anyways. But I dont like the idea of politicians trying to razzle dazzle us with thoughts and talk of disclosure and aliens and UFOs. Say thier real and lets move on. I mean the freakin economy is collapsing and all. Geesh.




posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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Not to detract from the main idea that we've all been working so hard to promote, but I'd like to point out something that I think is very much in line with disclosure – transparency in government.

RFBurns has correctly, and repeatedly stated, that many black op projects are outside the normal checks and balances of congressional oversight. Without laws to put that power back in the hands of our elected officials many layers of secrecy will never be acknowledged.

He's correct, the laws need to change.

Here's what concerns me. Even if we put forward an idea to address this particular problem, who's to say the drafted legislation wouldn't have riders and various caveats that neuter its effectiveness?

What we need is a way to find out which people in Congress are subverting the intent of these laws.

The only way to do that is to have a system in place that logs every edit to a piece of legislation and ties it back to a specific individual. Thankfully with technology we can do that.

To make sure this happens Congress needs to adopt a versioning system. This would be a huge change because it would introduce real legislative accountability. If no one has addressed RFBurns valid point, I intend on adding it to the briefing book, but for it to have the kinds of legs we want it to have we need this new mechanism to keep our legislators honest.

For those of you who want Disclosure, please, also vote for congress to start using a versioning system.

Because voting for transparency of any form is without a doubt a vote for the Disclosure movement.



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by Xtraeme
 


Good post and I agree with your sentiments. However, I still feel as if Obama could simply sign into law an executive order bringing Corporate America into Congressional oversight.

However, the question is whether or not it will happen. Who knows, though. This banking fiasco and apparent vanishing tax money will, perhaps, become a serious enough issue to change these types of laws.
I saw in another thread here somewhere something I had never considered, but is true. Corporations (legal entities) can plea the fifth amendment! That is ABSURD!

Meaning, if I had defrauded public tax money, I could simply plea the fifth and, in doing so, not have to show my books to investigators. This must stop and this is the issue we need to be addressing.
Remove the person from the corporations. Remove the lobbyists. Remove the legal secrecy.



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Xtraeme
RFBurns has correctly, and repeatedly stated, that many black op projects are outside the normal checks and balances of congressional oversight.


I believe the Black Projects are what the DoD now refers to as Special Access Programs (SAP).

All this talk about these programs being outside the scope of any checks and balances, well, has anyone actually looked at the legislation and directives that rule these things?

I don't know much about these things, but I have managed to find some relevant information here Information Security Program.

Chapter 8: SPECIAL ACCESS PROGRAMS


8-105 Annual Reports and Revalidation

a. Section 119 of title 10, United States Code requires that not later than March 1 of each year, the Secretary of Defense shall report all DoD SAPs to Congress. These annual reports also serve as the vehicle for revalidation and approval for continuation of all DoD SAPs by the Deputy Secretary of Defense. Any SAP not granted approval to continue shall be terminated.


There is something else interesting:


8-101 SAP Procedures

Unless exempted by the Secretary of Defense or Deputy Secretary of Defense, the DoD SAP Oversight Committee, (SAPOC), management structure and its working level Senior Review Group (SRG) shall be the forum for addressing the approval and disapproval for all DoD SAPs. In brief, the DoD utilizes a SAP Coordination Office (SAPCO), to support the SAPOC.


So apparently there can be SAPs exempted from discussion and approval (of the SAPOC) by the Secretary or Deputy Secretary of Defense. I wonder if these exempted SAPs can be exempted from the annual reports to Congress.


You guys talk about these laws needing to be changed first, well, I think in theory the laws give access to some Congressional members (perhaps on certain Armed Forces/Intelligence committees?) and the President.

If some Programs are without oversight and one were to point out this and say that laws needed to be changed, they'd deny they even have these Programs in the first place, as it most likely is illegal to have Programs without any sort of Congressional/Presidential oversight.

In sum, I don't think it's the laws that need to be changed as I'm almost 100% positive that current law provides Congress, and certainly the President, with access and oversight into these things.

So if Obama, or someone else, would really like to investigate into what the Government knows about UFOs, if he were denied access I'm sure that just by revealing this it would raise hell and the Government, Military or whoever would be holding the information would be pressured to do so.

And that's the only thing that could pry out this information from the keepers of the information.



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
reply to post by Xtraeme
 


Good post and I agree with your sentiments. However, I still feel as if Obama could simply sign into law an executive order bringing Corporate America into Congressional oversight.


Former president Carter did sign an executive order to try to get information about UFO's from the CIA, when it was run by good ol GWH Bush. Carter was denied.

Once a congressional hearing is done to bring into the forefront the way the laws are set up about the isolation of the black operatoins and its un-accounted for budget, that will start the processes of changing the way the laws are setup that give those black op projects and their budgets their isolation of constitutional checks and balances. Right now they can do whatever they please, including telling the president to go fly a kite and there would be nothing the president can do about it.

Maybe with this endeavor in the incomming president's agenda, that might help begin a congressional inquery and open forum public congressional hearings to begin to crack open the safe.

It all has to be done through the legal processes, otherwise it will become stagnent and join the ranks of the many thousands of similar efforts made by many well known individuals and organizations trying to get that hidden stuff released.

I am hoping that this particular effort does keep Obama's attention to it and maybe even tips the scale in our direction. But we also have to recognize that for over 50 years, because of National Security reasons, these black op projects involving alien technology have remained outside of legal processes. That must change, and the only way to get it changed is through those processes that can change it.

Fortunately we are not dealing with the same bunch that was around 50 years ago. But it wont be an easy task either. It will be a long, and up hill battle, but its one worth fighting for.



Cheers!!!!

[edit on 16-1-2009 by RFBurns]



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by converge
 


If that were true, then we would have had disclosure in 1978.

SAP can mean anything, from things like Clementine to NASA Mars photographs.

Any line item in the law, which leaves a loophole, the DOD or even NSA and CIA can throw whatever they see fit into that loophole.

And if they feel that the president is in the catagory of one that doesnt need to know, he wont know or have any access.

Its just that simple, yet it is just that complex. They did not create their little isolated realm without covering every corner and wall without that layer of contingency. If it were that easy for any president to get access, it would have happend a long time ago.

And with the outgoing administration and their lovely chop chop act to the laws all contained in the Patriot Act, there is no telling what else they have done to further the isolation of the black op project and their allocated budgets. And guess what else...there wont be any record of it when there is no accountabilitiy for it. That is exactly how it is set up.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 16 2009 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Any line item in the law, which leaves a loophole, the DOD or even NSA and CIA can throw whatever they see fit into that loophole.
And if they feel that the president is in the catagory of one that doesnt need to know, he wont know or have any access.


Do you have any evidence of this? Is it specified in any legislation that the President might not be given access to these Programs?



They did not create their little isolated realm without covering every corner and wall without that layer of contingency. If it were that easy for any president to get access, it would have happend a long time ago.


I don't doubt if a group exists without the Government that is keeping this information secret that they keep Presidents out of the loop, but one thing is what is done unofficially and the other one is what is official policy and law.

And what I argued in my post is that I don't believe they have the legality to deny the President that information.

If they do, it is illegal, and if Obama or any other President that really wanted to know about it, and reveal to the people that he was denied access, I assure you that something would happen.

What would the people do if they found out that their representative, the Commander in Chief, the President was being denied access?



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 07:36 AM
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Voting ends Sunday at 6 pm!



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by danelectro
Voting ends Sunday at 6 pm!


Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That means everyone on ATS has two final days to push like hell for this!

The lead UFO idea has 26,160 points and is at the top of page 4 of the most popular ideas on the site.

Get everyone you can to register and vote UP this idea:

citizensbriefingbook.change.gov...

[edit on 17-1-2009 by ufo reality]



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by RFBurns
Any line item in the law, which leaves a loophole, the DOD or even NSA and CIA can throw whatever they see fit into that loophole.
And if they feel that the president is in the catagory of one that doesnt need to know, he wont know or have any access.


Do you have any evidence of this? Is it specified in any legislation that the President might not be given access to these Programs?


Simply search for what Carter and Reagan tried to do during thier terms in office in trying to get access to the UFO issue and find out exactly why they were denied.



Originally posted by converge
I don't doubt if a group exists without the Government that is keeping this information secret that they keep Presidents out of the loop, but one thing is what is done unofficially and the other one is what is official policy and law.

And what I argued in my post is that I don't believe they have the legality to deny the President that information.


Your missing it all together here. They are "outside" of law. Meaning that they are able to withold anything and everything they see fit from any congressman/woman, president and his staff, anyone. And since they are unacknowledged and unaccounted for, there isnt any way to track what they have done or will do. They are given a yearly budget, and thats all congress even sees. To you and me and every joe public out here, it is against the law. But to them, there is no law being violated because they are given immunity to law.

Obviously Obama knows about congress budgeting billions every year to these unaccounted for black op projects. So he knows that as a former senator, and now president elect, he cant just sign some order and expect them to bow just because his name is Obama and is the new president.


Originally posted by converge
If they do, it is illegal, and if Obama or any other President that really wanted to know about it, and reveal to the people that he was denied access, I assure you that something would happen.

What would the people do if they found out that their representative, the Commander in Chief, the President was being denied access?


It isnt illegal because what they do is outside of the law, it is outside of constitutional law and the processes set down by it. They do not answer to what you and I know as the law. They do not answer to congress or the president. They are literally above and byond constitutional law.

All anyone has to do is simply research what Carter and Reagan tried to do during their terms. They were denied access. Now these two incidents were well known, and have been known for years. Why hasnt anything been done about it? Simple, because the people have not demanded anything be done about it. So congress focuses on other things like bailouts and their annual automatic pay raises while we sit here with our heads in the sand thinking everything is peachy hunky dorey and they will take care of us.

Wrong.

The government has become so compartmentalized that the cubicle to the right has no idea what the cubicle to the left is doing, much less whats happening down the hall. That is the problem. That is what needs to be corrected and changed. All of this began over 50 years ago and even Eisenhower tried to warn people about it...but did they listen to him?

Obviously not.

The black ops are outside of the democratic processes, as is part of the military industrial complex that is invovled with those black op projects and their contractors. That needs to be changed and changed quickly.

Once those barriers are removed and accountability is enacted and these black op projects are monitored and controlled by congress, which is where it should be anyway, then that brings it back into the realm of constitutional law and its checks and balances, which at that point, also brings it into the realm of an Executive Order.

The ironic thing about it all, is that during Carter's term, the head of the CIA was GWH Bush. GWH Bush denied Carter's Executive Order, stating that he must go through congress to access the information. Well that was quite handy since Bush already knew that congress is unable to access it as well. Basically Bush gave Carter the run around.

Then in Reagan's era, GWH Bush was vice president, which allowed even more ability to isolate the black op projects and information.

And over the last administration, who was vice president? Dick Cheney. And that guy no doubt has done even more to surpress and isolate the black op projects and contractors.

Its going to be a long way to the top for rock n roll, but if this is done right, and we get a huge mass of people behind it, not 2000 or even 20,000, but 200,000 and more, then there is clout to get the attention of congress to get them to hold public forum hearings and inqueries. They already know about the regular annual budget allocated to the black op projects, what they dont know is how, when, on what, by whom, it is spent.

Once the door is open and the public continues to keep pressure on its elected representatives in congress, congress will do the right thing and then, the president can make his move.

Hopefully that will be the case.



Cheers!!!!

[edit on 17-1-2009 by RFBurns]



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by danelectro
Voting ends Sunday at 6 pm!


Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That means everyone on ATS has two final days to push like hell for this!

The lead UFO idea has 26,160 points and is at the top of page 4 of the most popular ideas on the site.

Get everyone you can to register and vote UP this idea:

citizensbriefingbook.change.gov...



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Your missing it all together here. They are "outside" of law. Meaning that they are able to withold anything and everything they see fit from any congressman/woman, president and his staff, anyone. And since they are unacknowledged and unaccounted for, there isnt any way to track what they have done or will do. They are given a yearly budget, and thats all congress even sees. ...

It isnt illegal because what they do is outside of the law, it is outside of constitutional law and the processes set down by it. They do not answer to what you and I know as the law. They do not answer to congress or the president. They are literally above and byond constitutional law.


Burns, maybe we are saying the same thing through different words or ways, but doesn't what you describe fall under the category of.. illegal?

And that's what I'm saying, that if they do this it is illegal, and what does it matter if you change the laws of black projects if they are working outside of them anyway?



Obviously Obama knows about congress budgeting billions every year to these unaccounted for black op projects. So he knows that as a former senator, and now president elect, he cant just sign some order and expect them to bow just because his name is Obama and is the new president.


But what would the people say and do if the President disclosed this? Behind closed doors perhaps Senators and Congressmen and even Presidents might know this, but one thing is knowing what happens behind close doors, and another thing is say it out loud publicly.



All of this began over 50 years ago and even Eisenhower tried to warn people about it...but did they listen to him?


What if Eisenhower had been more specific and mentioned a couple of examples of the unwarranted influence of the Military Industrial Complex? And while Eisenhower seemed worried about it, he didn't everything he could do to stop it, did he?



The black ops are outside of the democratic processes, as is part of the military industrial complex that is invovled with those black op projects and their contractors. That needs to be changed and changed quickly. ...

Once those barriers are removed and accountability is enacted and these black op projects are monitored and controlled by congress, which is where it should be anyway, then that brings it back into the realm of constitutional law and its checks and balance


This is our disagreement then.

There is legislation for Black Projects (SAPs), but, and as you acknowledge, the people who might know something more about UFOs are outside of SAP regulations, then what does it matter to change those laws if they aren't ruled by them anyway?



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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OK people,

Let's keep this thing on the front page of recent posts.

We need as many members to sign up and vote as possible before the Sunday deadline.




posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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I can not stress this enough...

Register and vote UP this UFO Disclosure idea:

citizensbriefingbook.change.gov...

I know there are hundreds if not thousands of people on ATS that haven't done this yet. How can we reach them before voting ends tomorrow?



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by ufo reality
 


@ufo reality, I'm usually against this sort of thing, but going in to other popular threads on ATS and mentioning the deadline might give people the necessary kick-in the ass to vote.



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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One way to get the word out is to keep the thread on top of the recent topics list.

Check back periodically and see how the vote is going.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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Just saw this effort on Change.gov mentioned on David Wilcocks website. Just cast my vote!

This is the last day to vote: citizensbriefingbook.change.gov...



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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I just signed up and posted and voted.
It is above 28000 now!



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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Register and vote UP this UFO Disclosure idea:

citizensbriefingbook.change.gov...

We only have until 6pm eastern time today (Sunday). Voting ends then.

IT ONLY TAKES 2 MINUTES OF YOUR TIME.


TRY TO KEEP THIS THREAD AT THE TOP UNTIL 6PM.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by ufo reality]



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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I'm glad this topic still has some legs.

I'm disappointed that more members here haven't given the support that they could.

Push to the deadline and see what happens. I doubt if this will be a dead issue as it seems to be holding its own and staying near the top of the suggestions.



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