Christian MindRape (video)

Originally posted by Good Wolf
I shall go out and buy some acid tabs and see into the spiritual realm.

Doesn't work like that, you would only see the physical world change, not into the spiritual realm.

I'm finding all this rather silly now because you're telling me that there is something inherently mystical or spiritual about sleep. I'd like to see those studies that show this.

Well, sleep is something they are actually trying to understand still. They are looking into it's purposes. But in the bible, there are 2 ways you can see things, in a vision or in a dream. Both said years ago, but known today by "sleep science" to be functions of the 3rd eye. It has been said for thousands of years, and now science has proven that.

I myself don't have random dreams very often. I learn things while in my dreams. I'm a programmer and many many times answers or ways to problems I have I get in my dreams. Even religious things too, I sometimes wake up just knowing and understanding something new. I did once see a thing on dreams that talked about this in the purpose of dreams, how they were a way of working out problems and such.

But again, if you're eyes are what you actually see out of, then how are these dreams possible. Obviously they are not the only thing you see with. And if you even look at science and how the eye works, then you will know that you have never once truly seen the outside world. You only see a tiny proportion of light that your eyes are able to pick up, and that is converted into electrical signals which are then sent to the back of the brain where YOU actually see them.

To what are these images presented to? If you do not actually see with your eyes, you see what has been converted from those eyes, then what do you actually see with? What is it that actually lights up before you?

Btw, the brain actively attempts to erase dreams upon the final stages of sleep. That's why if sleep is interrupted in the middle of the night, dreams are still vivid and clear in your memory. This is more brain function, it's not chemical.

Most all memories are completely "erased" from consciousness. What you remember is actually just an index of the memories. If you look at how database indexing works, the brain works in that kind of a function. Not just in dreams, but in all things. I remember what I dreamed last night, but without any specific mention or "link" to it otherwise - then I will quickly forget it ever happened. When I say the word dog, a single picture immediately comes to mind. And then you can kind of look at other dogs in image based on that. But if you have no link in the word dog, then it doesn't bring up that index. Obviously however, there is still a reason/purpose why it happens.

But it still fails to explain why God would aim to make himself know through "external" means, it's only way to gain certainty.

Because you ignore that the external is just a limited perspective of things. If "God" suddenly appears to you like in the Bruce Almighty movie, what is to say it's not just an advanced being? Whats to say it's not just someone playing an illusion on you? If you accept only the external as such, then you will accept anything with power over you as god.

If I could just up and appear before you, would that mean I was god? Would that be valid enough for you to call me god? Would you worship me? Obviously that is not actually proof. As I mentioned before, there is literally nothing that would ever actually prove god to you externally.

So tell me, what is it that could actually prove to you that God is God? What hoops would he need to jump through for you?

reply to post by badmedia

So tell me, what is it that could actually prove to you that God is God? What hoops would he need to jump through for you?

Starting to "jump through hoops" at all and giving something solid and reliable would be a start. Something non speculative.

Considering that all things to an all-powerful are a cinch, meeting me and then a tour of the cosmos would be nice. Time travelling? There's all sorts of things he could do.

Something that can't objectively be distinguished from imagination is not good enough.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by badmedia

 

So tell me, what is it that could actually prove to you that God is God? What hoops would he need to jump through for you?

Starting to "jump through hoops" at all and giving something solid and reliable would be a start. Something non speculative.

Considering that all things to an all-powerful are a cinch, meeting me and then a tour of the cosmos would be nice. Time travelling? There's all sorts of things he could do.

Something that can't objectively be distinguished from imagination is not good enough.

So anything that can time travel must be God?

I just posted this on a BTS topic, but I think it's somewhat fitting here as well.

www.noogenesis.com...

MORAL.

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

Read the whole thing, I didn't quote it all this time. But what you say about time traveling as an example, it would be like you saying anything that is a rope is god.

reply to post by badmedia

Because you ignore that the external is just a limited perspective of things.

Not really. Our senses and our perceptions based on those senses are entirely fallible. That is why I require something beyond reasonable doubt. A possession for instance. I bought Stargate season 9, not long ago, and should I doubt the reality of going down to the shops and buying it, I can go back to it, thereby confirming the experience beyond a reasonable doubt.

Why is God so scared to just show himself and his power? I'm not asking for much, here.


Yawn. I'm off.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Not really. Our senses and our perceptions based on those perceptions are entirely fallible. That is why I require something beyond reasonable doubt. A possession for instance. I bought Stargate season 9, not long ago, and should I doubt the reality of going down to the shops and buying it, I can go back to it, thereby confirming the experience beyond a reasonable doubt.

Quite simply, it's all a matter of what you trust. What you think is real and so on. As I said before, you trust what your sense provide, but you do not trust all that the brain - part of the same reality you trust, seems to provide.

But tell me, to what are your senses presented to? You don't actually see light, you see the electrical signals which are converted into the image you see in front of you. The light hits the eye, then electrical signals go through the brain where it is then converted into the image you see. Tell me, what is it that the image is being presented to? What are YOU? These are questions you keep avoiding.

Why is God so scared to just show himself and his power? I'm not asking for much, here.

You could NEVER see god. At most you can see only a tiny part. To actually see god in his fullness would mean this reality could no longer exist, and you would literally cease to be. But if you start to understand what consciousness is, then you will understand and see where/what god is.

reply to post by badmedia

Quite simply, it's all a matter of what you trust. What you think is real and so on. As I said before, you trust what your sense provide, but you do not trust all that the brain - part of the same reality you trust, seems to provide.

What the senses present to the mind is a representation of the world around us. Then there is the virtual reality our minds build, imaginations, dreams and so on. The second is a simulation which, not unlike the matrix, doesn't always follow laws. Neither are completely trustworthy, but the perception is far more so than imagination. In science we do not do the tests in our head, we would get no where, yet still what we observe goes through our mind before it goes on paper first. To rule out human-error, other people can repeat such tests and cross confirm results.

These things are tangible, so anything god does that is intangible is entirely useless, because none of it could be distinguished from the goings on of my own mind and it certainly couldn't be trusted to be accurate.

Consciousness, is a psychology term meaning a state of awareness of self and environment. A virtual construct upon a physical mechanism that is our identity, nature and all our thoughts. A logic based system.

You could NEVER see god. At most you can see only a tiny part. To actually see god in his fullness would mean this reality could no longer exist, and you would literally cease to be.

So you say, yet I cannot be sure of you claim of rather esoteric knowledge to be right. However, I didn't ask for "god in his fullness", but a tiny part of would probably suffice. But he still won't even do that.

If he really exists, he doesn't appear to care much about us knowing him as he has no wish to do away with the façade of uncertainty.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
In science we do not do the tests in our head, we would get no where, yet still what we observe goes through our mind before it goes on paper first. To rule out human-error, other people can repeat such tests and cross confirm results.

Not true, it's called Critical Reasoning. It's the science of Logic. Another poster was kind enough to U2U me today on a book about it based on things I said(I think this thread, but not sure).

en.wikipedia.org...

These things are tangible, so anything god does that is intangible is entirely useless, because none of it could be distinguished from the goings on of my own mind and it certainly couldn't be trusted to be accurate.

As I mentioned before, you are asking to see the creator in the creation.

Consciousness, is a psychology term meaning a state of awareness of self and environment. A virtual construct upon a physical mechanism that is our identity, nature and all our thoughts. A logic based system.

Science has no defintion or understanding of Consciousness. Psychology doesn't even study Consciousness, only Philosophy attempts it - which is what I mentioned before, logical understanding and so on. Psychology only tries to diagnose patterns of behavior. Science by it's very nature is unequipped to handle consciousness.

The universe you wish to see God in is one of action/reaction, not one of consciousness which is in another realm of it's own. Looking for the creator in the creation is like looking for the programmer in a video game, and then claiming the programmer must not exist. - dumb. You certainly won't find me looking in my creations and programs.

If he really exists, he doesn't appear to care much about us knowing him as he has no wish to do away with the façade of uncertainty.

You know, I have asked you a few questions multiple times and you ignore it and always go back to this same spoiled brat attitude. I'm personally done even talking to you. You just want to sit back and play the victim and at like everything should be handed and done for you. Go ahead, play the victim and be godless. If you can't be bothered to answer a few simple questions, maybe understand a few concepts, and actually take an honest look at another persons perspective, then you are quite simply not worth my time.

Grow up and take responsibilty for yourself. If this is all you are going to keep saying in response, then why are you even bothering talking on a religious forum? Obviously, you don't really give a crap about the discussion and obviously discussion isn't going to prove anything to you.




[edit on 31-12-2008 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

Grow up and take responsibilty for yourself. If this is all you are going to keep saying in response, then why are you even bothering talking on a religious forum? Obviously, you don't really give a crap about the discussion and obviously discussion isn't going to prove anything to you.

Of course it isn't. There isn't going to be anything beyond reasonable doubt and there are no adequate responses to that.

Have fun with your intangible God, mate.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Of course it isn't. There isn't going to be anything beyond reasonable doubt and there are no adequate responses to that.

Have fun with your intangible God, mate.

It's all in how you want to see it. You will always find a way to explain things away, it's part of free will.

I am god and I am arguing with myself. There is nothing intangible about us, other than the flesh we currently wear and the physical you put so much into. The idea that something comes from nothing, which only happens in thought to begin with, and is only possible on consciousness.

To know god, you must first know thyself. Thus why I asked you those questions, and thus why you used your free will to ignore them. I can't show you god, nobody can make you see it. But I can show you how.

Oh may, how far we have strayed from the topic. This is getting very deep into philosophy and metaphysics. This is one of many classical arguments, like Idealism vs. Realism.

Separation is only an illusion. What we study in nature is merely a study of patterns of energy. Everything is energy. How can we really know what is real? This is perhaps a eternal quest of what is real and what is not.

We are merely a droplets in the eternal ocean of energy. There may be God, but perhaps, he, himself, is searching too.

We are not really "flesh and blood". We are truly energy. Buddhism have it right.

Okay, that's all I have to say for now again

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Oh may, how far we have strayed from the topic. This is getting very deep into philosophy and metaphysics. This is one of many classical arguments, like Idealism vs. Realism.

Separation is only an illusion. What we study in nature is merely a study of patterns of energy. Everything is energy. How can we really know what is real? This is perhaps a eternal quest of what is real and what is not.

We are merely a droplets in the eternal ocean of energy. There may be God, but perhaps, he, himself, is searching too.

We are not really "flesh and blood". We are truly energy. Buddhism have it right.

Okay, that's all I have to say for now again

Separation is truly an illusion. This is easy to see even in ones own life time. If you instead of looking at different points in time as seperate, and just image if you could see everywhere you've been at the same time, then you will see that everything is actually connected, only seperated by "time", which is a result of a limited perspective which creates the illusion in the first place.

Like right now, walk to the fridge. Now, when you get there, look at where you were on the way to it, and visualize there are all there at once, and you can see the connections. To do so is to imagine 4d partially. Only in true 4d, it's not only the path you took but also next to it.

However, energy we are not. Energy the universe is not. Energy in itself is yet another illusion created by the illusion of time. Truly if you looked at history to the future at 1 time as in the fridge example, you can see that it is all static. Like looking at the movie film, rather than the movie. The universe is static, doesn't move at all - your consciousness moves through it. I can see how Buddha could see it as consciousness being energy, but it is not energy in the way we understand it. Energy works on the principle of every action has an equal and opposite reaction, this is not true of consciousness. To be an observer is special and separate of creation.

I attended a church here in Illinois for several years where everyone
sang, danced, and was highly charged with the holy spirit/ghost. It
turned out that the pastor's family was mis-using the donations, so
me and my wife left this church. But I must say that the weekly
aerobic conditioning was great for the body..and kind of fun too!
-cwm