Conspiracy to Surpress the Truth & Homosexuality

We may be the wrath of God and all that, but surely we've done far less damage than the religious fanatics have. The Crusades, the Teutonic knights, and all that jazz. And now this! Well, it's better than you coming to my house and beating me with stones, but still, the fact that people continue to insist that we, those who only love and want peace and equality, are worse than those who spit at homosexuals and tell them that they're sinners and they're the wrath of god manifested is really quite sad. I have nothing wrong with religion, but the fanatics should not be there. I'm not saying that you have to be homosexual! There are hardly any homosexuals who will ever say that.

Oh, and why are we all suddenly adopting this medieval approach? That we should all feel terrible for being sinners rather than just trying to live a good life and help people out and such? Loving your neighbour? What of all this? I'm not a Christian, but I do think that if the focus is not on the justice system of religion (which, as is the case in the government's judicial system, is a bit of a perversion of true justice, what with sticking to the word of the law rather than the spirit of the law), but instead focus on the spirit of the religion. That is, let's ALL get along and work for a better future/afterlife/whichever, and let's be nice, rather than arguing semantics.

WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS why can't we all just get along? ;_; I love my girlfriend. I love her so very much, and I really do want her to have the best life possible. (Not at the expense of others - I try to be a nice person.) Is that mean of me? Is that immoral? Maybe we could raise a child or something, but hey, at least we're not contributing to the rampant overpopulation.

Well, whatever. I'm never going to get you to believe my own opinion, and you'll never get me to believe yours - us humans are stubborn like that. So yes, let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I'll get married in Sweden, then.

reply to post by TheRedneck


I defend the right for women to live equally contsry to the bible -----


The Bible Promotes Sexism


The Bible immediately establishes its position on women as subservient to men as early as the third chapter of Genesis:

Genesis 3:16 …and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This punishment was for the woman when she enticed the man to commit sin, in this case eating the forbidden fruit. This example is not uncommon in the Bible as women are always to blame for luring men into temptation. Women don’t seem to have any purpose in the Bible at all except as temptresses, witches, whores and love interests.

The Old Testament clearly establishes women as property. The Book of Exodus in particular seems to use the terms “wife” and “slave” interchangeably (bold emphasis added):

Exodus 21:7-10 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant (female slave), she shall not go out as the menservants (male slaves) do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

At one point, Yahweh threatens Jerusalem: the men shall have all their property taken away, including their wives (bold emphasis added):

Jeremiah 6:12 And their houses shall be turned unto others, with their fields and wives together: for I will stretch out my hand upon the inhabitants of the land, saith the Lord.

Jeremiah 8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others…

The biblical god seems to only be interested in men and boys. Females are of no value:

Exodus 23:17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord God.[37]

Numbers 3:15 Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them.

The Bible says that having children makes a woman dirty. Girls are twice as “dirty” as boys (bold emphasis added):

Leviticus 12:2-5 … If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. …But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.

You Can’t Put a Price on Human Life… or Can You?

A census is done where human lives are oddly given a money value. Girls are worth less than boys and children less than a month old are apparently worth nothing.

Leviticus 27:3-7 conducts a census and puts a price on each human life, based on gender and age. To arrange this passage into a price list:

Male, 60+ years: 15 shekels
Female, 60+ years: 10 shekels
Male, 20-60 years: 50 shekels
Female, 20-60 years: 30 shekels
Male, 5-20 years: 20 shekels
Female, 5-20 years: 10 shekels
Male, 1 month-5 years: 5 shekels
Female, 1 month-5 years: 3 shekels
Bottom line: Women are worth somewhere between one-half and two-thirds the value of men of the same age. Children are worth less than adults.

Another passage which indicates Yahweh’s distain for girls:

Luke 2:23 …Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord…

What about firstborn females?

New Testament Sexism

The New Testament is no better than the Old. Paul contributes to the sexism of Christian teaching (bold emphasis added):

First Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man…

First Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

First Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

First Timothy 2:11-14 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Peter supports Paul’s teachings:

First Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

Finally, in Revelation, there is one final insult to women which indicates that Paul’s obsessions with celibacy and misogyny were passed on to the other authors of the New Testament:

Revelation 14:3-4 …no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins…

It’s clear what implications a “Bible-based society” would have for women. Women are treated in the Bible as the property of their husbands. So they will be if the Fundamentalist Christians have their way.

“I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period.” [38]
-Pat Robertson, “The 700 Club”, Jan 8, 1992

reply to post by TheRedneck


I defend the rights of those that would chose homosexuality cotary to the bible ------- Courtesy J Armstrong thanks for saving time


Some, Not All, Anti-Gay Passages Are Corrected by the NRSV

The New Oxford Version has corrected some but not all of the anti-gay bigotry of the Bible. The anti-gay verses of the Bible cited so far (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, Romans 1:26-32, First Corinthians 6:9-10 and First Timothy 1:9-11) still carry the same basic message in the new translation. For example:

(NRSV) Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.[40]

However, other anti-gay passages that appear in older biblical translations have been softened in the new edition with the use of such terms as “male prostitute” instead of “sodomite”. For example (bold emphasis added):

(KJV) First Kings 22:43-46 And he (Jehoshaphat) walked in all the ways of Asa his father; he turned not aside from it, doing that which was right in the eyes of the LORD:… (Verse 46) And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he (Jehoshaphat) took out of the land.

“Took out of the land” is often interpreted to mean, “exterminated”. In fact, the RSV uses this word in its translation. One can deduce from this KJV passage that Jehoshaphat “righteously” exterminated a lot of men because they were gay. However, in the new translation:

(NRSV) First Kings 22:43-46 He (Jehoshaphat) walked in the way of his father Asa; he did not turn aside from it, doing what was right in the sight of the Lord… (Verse 46) The remnant of the male temple prostitutes who were still in the land in the days of his father Asa, he (Jehoshaphat) exterminated.[41]

Both versions proclaim that Jehoshaphat did what was right according to the biblical god and, a few verses later, this “righteous” figure kills a large number of sodomites/male prostitutes. So both versions of the slaughter were apparently done with Yahweh’s approval. The question is was he murdering gays or prostitutes?

reply to post by TheRedneck



I defend the right of someone who would be free of salvery contary to the bble -------


NRSV) Exodus 21:20-21 When a slave owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripesNRSV) First Timothy 6:1-6 Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy, and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. Of course, there is great gain in godliness combined with contentment

NRSV) Exodus 22:2 …The thief shall make restitution, but if unable to do so, shall be sold for the theft

reply to post by moocowman


Let us all pray for the OP, and those like him/her that have preconceived notions of right and wrong and use the man made bible as the only reference of God's word. Let us prey that he/she understands that all is energy and ALL is of the Source and that he/she can attain the Christ consciousness.

I can always tell where a person is on the spiritual ladder and most haven't reached the bottom rung. What we WILL see is a strengthening of negative energy and great divisions in many areas around the world. What we see is a reflection of ourselves; the collective and the fear and stress that is running rampant. If we lived in a world in which everyone is totally accepted for who their are with organized religious that caused the Dark Ages, we would be living quite differently.

I have experienced the "higher consciousness" and there is a difference between faith and knowing. There was no judgment at that level. ONLY total acceptance and a deep compassionate love. The "Christos" is truly the portal.

reply to post by TheRedneck


I would defend the right of someone who would worship an oscar contary to the bible,

I would defend the right for somoeone to worthip Allah contrary to the bible ( Islams claim jesus to be a prophet not a god) and jesus who is also Yahwe cannot be allah at the same time, unless you chose otherwise I really don't care.


According to the RSV Bible and Catholic Tradition, the First Commandment is:

(6)I am the LORD your God,...(7)You shall have no other gods before me. (8)You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; (9)you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, (10)but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. [Deut. 5:6-10; RSV]

Verse 7 forbids the worship of other gods, while verses 8-9 forbid the making of graven (carved) images that would be worshipped as gods, i.e. idols. Now worshipping statues with divine honor is one way of worshipping other gods. Verse 7 is a general statement of the First Commandment, while verses 8-9 give a specific case of this Commandment. Verses 9-10 present the punishments and rewards that are associated with these Commandments.


[edit on 29-11-2008 by moocowman]

reply to post by TheRedneck



I defend the right of Welsh lorry drivers to eat black pudding contrary to the bible -------

Ye Shall Eat No Manner of Blood

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.

Leviticus 7:26 Moreover ye shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings.
27 Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

Leviticus 17:10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.
14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

Leviticus 19:26 Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

Deuteronomy 12:13 Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:
14 But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee.
15 Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.
16 Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.

Deuteronomy 12:20 When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
21 If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
22 Even as the roebuck and the hart is eaten, so thou shalt eat them: the unclean and the clean shall eat of them alike.
23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
24 Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water.
25 Thou shalt not eat it; that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the LORD.
26 Only thy holy things which thou hast, and thy vows, thou shalt take, and go unto the place which the LORD shall choose:
27 And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh.

Deuteronomy 15:19 All the firstling males that come of thy herd and of thy flock thou shalt sanctify unto the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work with the firstling of thy bullock, nor shear the firstling of thy sheep.
20 Thou shalt eat it before the LORD thy God year by year in the place which the LORD shall choose, thou and thy household.
21 And if there be any blemish therein, as if it be lame, or blind, or have any ill blemish, thou shalt not sacrifice it unto the LORD thy God.
22 Thou shalt eat it within thy gates: the unclean and the clean person shall eat it alike, as the roebuck, and as the hart.
23 Only thou shalt not eat the blood thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.

1 Samuel 14:31 And they smote the Philistines that day from Michmash to Aijalon: and the people were very faint.
32 And the people flew upon the spoil, and took sheep, and oxen, and calves, and slew them on the ground: and the people did eat them with the blood.
33 Then they told Saul, saying, Behold, the people sin against the LORD, in that they eat with the blood. And he said, Ye have transgressed: roll a great stone unto me this day.
34 And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay them here, and eat; and sin not against the LORD in eating with the blood. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew them there.

Ezekiel 33:23 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
24 Son of man, they that inhabit those wastes of the land of Israel speak, saying, Abraham was one, and he inherited the land: but we are many; the land is given us for inheritance.
25 Wherefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Ye eat with the blood, and lift up your eyes toward your idols, and shed blood: and shall ye possess the land?

Zechariah 9:6 And a bastard shall dwell in Ashdod, and I will cut off the pride of the Philistines.
7 And I will take away his blood out of his mouth, and his abominations from between his teeth: but he that remaineth, even he, shall be for our God, and he shall be as a governor in Judah, and Ekron as a Jebusite.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

If you believe the bible is the word of God and therefore must be taken literally, then please enlighten me as to why anyone should give a monkeys when God is obviously beneath them when it comes to morality, ethics and sin. Maybe God should come down to Earth so that the majority of us decent human beings can teach him/her/it how to behave in a civilized and respectful manner.

reply to post by moocowman

You quote the words very well. But you have no understanding.

I cannot teach you what those words mean in 10 years, much less in a series of posts. There is One who could, but you will not hear. And even if I could teach you in a post, you would not hear that either.

End of fruitless discussion.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Of course they couldn't mean what they say, could they. Nooo, that'd make too much sense, we can't have that.

This is what Al-Qaeda is doing! This is the enemy! Bible or Koran, it doesn't matter which set of human writings are being combed for obscure references to justify hate. The result is the same negative crap of using human made religion to create judgment and division.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

The topic on whether it is sin or not is pure absurdity and I do not need to address it as 1 Cor 6:9 is explicit.

I personally have experienced Gods grace in having addiction and the associated cravings completely removed by Gods good grace.

Just have to wade in on another religious zealot, spreading religious nonsense as "Truth". Are there not various Christian and conservative web communities where such people can write such silliness without being assailed by non-believers? But I suppose I am reading this drivel and responding, so there is an element of fun to be had with the bible-thumper bashing.

Hey, Bigwhammy, nobody cares about the obscure reverend. Thankfully, (Thank the Goddess) the major western world governments, including mine in Canada and the USA are secular and do not make laws based on your religion.

I do not believe the bible (not capitalized intentionally) is the word of god. The bible is a collection of various writings of humans assembled at the Councils of Hippo and Carthage in the 390s by self serving church officials to rationalize and maintain their political power.

So as to whether homosexuality and addictions are the cause or the expression of god's wrath based upon the bible is an empty intellectual exercise that is on the same level as sci-fi nuts figuring out how the codes are punched into the control panel on "Stargate". Both are about fantasy.

You bring up some rather personal information about beating addiction. Good for you. But if you have been through A.A., you know what a dry drunk is, and how the behaviors of an alcoholic persist beyond the actual substance abuse. Hopefully your odd prejudicial ravings are not followed up with hateful actions. Go back to A.A. and find a sponsor who will give you the strength to rely upon your own personal inner connection to the divine, which is greater than you. Rather than making yourself believe in some book, ie: the bible.

Lets us pray that those who delight in writing about the righteous wrath of god being visited upon the evil doers leave the execution of that supposed wrath to god and its godly powers. And hope that these righteous men and women do not feel inspired themselves to carry out god's wrathful work. In other words, become murderous fruitcakes or just mean people.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Isispriest]

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Isispriest]

Ok Isis ..I think you need to add EVERYONE to that list of yours ..
Everyone is doing their fair share of JUDGEING AND DIVIDING .
Not just religions ......
Including YOU .




[edit on 30-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

I cannot believe how many stars the original post has. Are you people really that hateful?

Well, I'm just glad society does not take people like you seriously.

reply to post by GeeGee

Are you people really that hateful?

Yes.They are.
And the worse thing about it?
They do it,according to them,in the name of Love.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by moocowman

You quote the words very well. But you have no understanding.

I cannot teach you what those words mean in 10 years, much less in a series of posts. There is One who could, but you will not hear. And even if I could teach you in a post, you would not hear that either.

End of fruitless discussion.

TheRedneck

Response from Good Wolf ---

Of course they couldn't mean what they say, could they. Nooo, that'd make too much sense, we can't have that.


Well Mr Redneck, i can only agree with the Good Wolf, and no you certainly could not teach me in 10 years after I've had perhaps several centuries worth of unteaching to benefit from.

I respect your decision to end a fruitless discussion but have no doubt that you will start agruing the same points all over again elsewhwere.

You may resign safe in the belief that your jesusgod will come back and kick my arse if I don't do has he say.

I will resign safe in the knowledge that the more people such as myself with no beliefs, ask people like you to deeply think about yours. The less likely ar the chances, that my children and the world they live in, will further be poisoned by the mass delusion that is christianity.
I don't believe it to be a delusion I know it, based on the fact that you completely failed to produce evidence to the contrary.

May the 'Cowman be with you and keep you safe.

reply to post by jakyll

I fully expect this to offend many... it is not an effort to make friends, just state the truth. Flame away if you must - you will bring me blessings.

No, at least not this one. He wants attention. Stop giving it to him.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by GeeGee

 

Are you people really that hateful?

Yes.They are.
And the worse thing about it?
They do it,according to them,in the name of Love.

Here's a nice loving christian letter to Brian Flemming, writer and Director of "The God Who wasn't There" , I think it speaks for itself and according to Mr Flemming is quite the norm.


From: [redacted]
Subject: BURN - while we laugh
Date: December 21, 2005
You've definitely got some nerve. I'd love to take a knife, gut you fools, and scream with joy as your insides spill out in front of you. You are attempting to ignite a holy war in which some day I, and others like me, may have the pleasure of taking action like the above mentioned. However, GOD teaches us not to seek vengeance, but to pray for those like you all. I'll get comfort in knowing that the punishment GOD will bring to you will be 1000 times worse than anything I can inflict. The best part is that you WILL suffer for eternity for these sins that you're completely ignorant about. The Wrath of GOD will show no mercy. For your sake, I hope the truth is revealed to you before the knife connects with your flesh. Merry CHRISTMAS!!!

PS You people really don't have a clue as to what is in store for you... I thank GOD I'm not you.

RuneSpider

No, at least not this one. He wants attention. Stop giving it to him.

I know.But i can't stand by while he spews lies and hatred.
And people really do believe that they are saying/doing such things out of the goodness of their hearts.That is what makes them fanatics.




moocowman

Didn't Jesus say something similar to this....oh.no.wait.....I'm thinking of,'love thy neighbour as i have loved you.' Very easy to confuse the two.