Did Gnosticism try and Usurp Christianity or is it the Real Message of Christ.

reply to post by Eleleth


I agree with all of that except the part about the artifical spirit. And I do find this piece very moving and loving. The way I would picture such a conversation between Christ and John.

I have come to my faith not because someone preached to me. I as a child knew and felt the spark of life. In a lot of ways I do have gnostic beliefs..up to the point of the soul keeps recycling. I say I am a Christian to me that means I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ and his teachings. That does not mean I am part of a "church". My church can be being outside and feeling the wind on my face and hear the music it makes in the trees. I can worship my savior through his creation of nature as well as when I was so sick for so many years and could not get out of bed, but I could worship there in my bed. My daughter tells be to be careful not to say I KNOW as to say that I BELIEVE something. So I will tell you it is my belief that it makes no difference to Jesus if we think he was gnostic or not as long as we come to him with a humbled heart, spirit, mind, and body. When we can suffer with him and rejoice with him to be made perfect. That is what is important!
It is that we have faith like that of a mustard seed.........and love for our brothers and sisters like that of Christ. He was our example. He will lead us home.



Peace to all,
Grandma

Originally posted by Grandma
Now, I sometimes wonder if maybe Moses got a little carried away with himself and did some things he should not have by the name of God.

Well, from my understanding, both Moses and Paul were the equivalent of what we would consider "hitmen." Supposedly, God forgave them and made them his "prophets."

[edit on 21-11-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by Grandma


Christs blood is not on me. Only the light of love is on me from Christ.

All you need is love
All you need is love
All you need is love, love, love
Love is all you need

In peace
LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Yeah, got John Lennon a long way didn't it?, lol










Love Mom

reply to post by LittlePinky82



Hiya Pinky,

Ive never read anything that related to Sophia as knowledge...Ive always read it that she stood for wisdom. Some even say that this is who Solomon loved so much, the female nature of the wisdom of God...the scriptures where Solomon keeps referring to the female nature, he calls wisdom, I believe is the same idea spilling over to the scriptures, a female nature that brings wisdom to the seeking humble soul.

gnostic=knowledge
Sophia=wisdom (of God)

Peace,
LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo


My dear daughter,

I enjoy so much our discussions about our faith. I learn much from you and your spirit, I can only hope that I have imparted some kind of wisdom to you though my faith and my life. If I have even just a little part of you becoming the beautiful person you are today.


Love,
Mom

Time for Bed! See you tomorrow!

reply to post by Grandma



How do you know what happened to Johns soul? Can you tell me where it got him?

If John Lennon did wrong things, its not that he didn't believe in love, its that this material world (the darkness) got the better of him. I am not going to assume though that God did not have a place in Johns heart, I have hope that Thee did.

LV

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Ive never read anything that related to Sophia as knowledge

Sophia was the feminine aspect of God, according to the Gnostics. The feminine was associated with knowledge during ancient times.

reply to post by Grandma


Almost everything I have learned was from you. I have been blessed and I wish that others could of been blessed the same as I. Im forever grateful for your pure heart that I have been able to watch, feel and know.

Always,
L

reply to post by Mr Anunnaki
Many people have a problem with Christ having any kind of relationship with Mary Magdeline.If he were to have who are we to say anything against it?It would be comparable to Colonel Sanders walking into a KFC and eating a piece of chicken!Would that be theft?I think not.Remember folks its his bat..his ball and he owns the game and by the way hes also the umpire and scorekeeper!Gnostic beliefs should be welcomed by all if not maybe you may find you may not be on the right side of truth,

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Ive never read anything that related to Sophia as knowledge

Sophia was the feminine aspect of God, according to the Gnostics. The feminine was associated with knowledge during ancient times.

Only in some systems. The Sethians called the feminine aspect Barbelo, which means, roughly, "seed," and was "the womb of everything".

[edit on 21-11-2008 by Eleleth]

The Sacred Feminine (Sophia, Wisdom) is real and can be tapped into. You have to adopt a certain viewpoint or state of mind. It is akin to an altered state, kind of like being on drugs but you achieve it with your spirit, which then effects your mind. Eh, Gnosticism is really hard to explain, because it requires EXPERIENCE, not indoctrination or faith. For once you have had one Gnostic experience, it is truly "knowledge" and not "faith."

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth



Im not sure about ancients relating the name Sophia or the meaning to knowledge but the Gnostic text most defiantly relate Sophia directly to wisdom...but still, to receive the wisdom you would have to achieve gnosis (knowledge) so really it is all tied together. Not sure you could have one without the other now that I think about it.

LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo
John Lennon became a believer in Christ in the 70s at one time,Whether he continued on the path Im not sure.John was a major force in raising the consciousness of this countries ending of the VietNam war.Even Nixon tried to shut him down because of his antiwar stance.I truly hope John made/makes it to heaven I wouldnt be surprised if he did.Im sure were all in for some surprises when that day comes!

reply to post by Merle8



Hi ya,

Being that you have some thoughts on this tapping into...would you say that by living a daily life with allowing your body to be an instrument for works of the divine nature, daily awareness of this body being a vessel for the light of Thee...be what experience is needed for this? I do think the text help us understand where to seek such things, the nature of wisdom. But, to me, the experience is making a life style of humble actions and thoughts. A duration of steady time, living this way, your heart is shone to be pure or not, true or not, steady or not, humble or not. True inner seeking of ones nature to be the nature of Thee...Truth of your heart and thoughts.

Curious, what do you define as this experience....its not often I get to talk with others about this topic. Any other chime ins welcome here, always..

LV

Not everyone who believes in a little gnosis believes that Jesus was married to Mary Magdelene.

If you list the rites of the Gnostics next to the rites of the Catholics - the one big difference is the rite of the Bridal Chamber.

Discussing the Bridal Chamber, though there are many hints to it in the Bible will open up a can of worms around here.

But just ask yourselves - if it exists - why have they surpressed it?

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


Ive had to learn to like worms...or to face them anyways. But the path that did this was no returning, no standing down, standing up for what makes my spirit within me dance.

I am really glad to see others talking about this topic. Thanks to any who shared their thoughts and any others who continue to do so.

LV

Gnossis has several meanings. The manner it is used in the Bible, usually refers to insight ( let him who has understanding, etc).

Jesus used analogies, parables, etc . We need to work seeking the truth and understanding the divine, and even then there is always disagreement to what the divine represents, as evidenced in this Wonderfull Thread.



Did Gnostics try and Usurp Christianity...

Christ asked us to seek truth, to meditate and pray, to actively seek truths obscured by the material world...basically asking us to achieve personal and individual insight with the divine.

if anything Christ was a pure Gnostic in a spiritual context, seeking and offering insight to the Divine Nature of the Universe.

It was organized Christianity that usurped the message of Christ from a personal relationship with the Divine, and replaced it with a relationship to an organized theocracy.

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy

It was organized Christianity that usurped the message of Christ from a personal relationship with the Divine, and replaced it with a relationship to an organized theocracy.

I actually agree with the things you just wrote. There are three possible explanations why the Church ommitted certain things from the Bible:

1. Deliberately trying to hinder individual spiritual development.

2. They really felt certain things were heresy and were trying to help our spiritual development.

3. They didn't understand certain things, so they left out what they couldn't explain (this is me just trying to be nice to them).

No matter what they have controlled the content of Jesus' teachings and of course, I'm of the opinion, that Jesus knew this would end up happening and this is the very reason there is an elect group of people, that he makes known his mysteries to.

In Thomas he says: "I will choose you one out of a thousand and two out of ten thousand and you will stand as a single one." This is so that people can stand up and give testimony to the real truth. There is always going to be a need for guides, as long as there is a lack of wisdom and understanding. Furthermore, the saying found in Thomas is backed up in the Old Testament: Jer 3:14 "Return, faithless people", declares the Lord, "for I am your husband. I will choose you - one from a town and two from a clan and bring you to Zion."

I think discussions like this are so needed.





[edit on 21-11-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]

Another reason why I think the gnostic teachings and the NT teachings were kept separate is because if the churches taught us that we could be empowered all on our own, without the church, without a middle man, the orthodox control would of lost its control over the masses. The last thing the churches wanted also was to show respect to the feminine. Imagine Jesus telling the Jews that women had the same rights as men in a spiritual aspect, mabey even Mary was the one that was to carry on the teachings (just thoughts, not facts). If Jesus taught to find God within us, the Churches would have no purpose besides community. If Jesus would of ever talked about reincarnation....OH MY, Im sure we can all imagine how the people reacted to that one.

I dont think the gnostic text should belong with the NT text. They both contain truths in their own merit, but some of the truths conflict each other too much. (actually, since the Bible is full of conflicts anyway, it really wouldn't matter to add more conflict to it.

When I began reading the gnostic text, I knew right away why these text were burnt, why people were killed and why the churches couldn't have them in existence. But, even though they burned what they could, ironically, a full codex of these teachings that have been buried in time for well over 1500 yrs. or better, are now surfacing for those who would like to read them. Could it not be that these text have surfaced in a time that was ready for them, a time that needed them?

I think its worked out beautifully
LV