I want socialism.

Originally posted by Camilo1
Go live in Cuba for a while and tell me in a couple of years if you still like socialism....

Two posts above this people were talking about how everyone confused socialism with communism. Somehow this gem got passed over.

Cuba is a COMMUNIST country.

U.S. State Department

Totalitarian communist state; current government assumed power by force January 1, 1959.

I agree with the OP. In fact, I am writing a thesis on it right now. It is my opinion that we need to keep a capitalist system, while adopting some tenets of socialism to keep it in check.

Any business that needs an oligopoly or monopoly to run successfully needs to be under governmental control - complete transparency, if not totally controlled by the government.

Clearly there needs to be some sort of executive salary cap. My favorite way of implementation is to set a max proportion of top executive pay to entry-level positions. That way, if the top wants a raise, he/she will need to consider the loss of profit due to everyone else's raise.

The fact is, capitalism is a great system, but it is flawed in that it is driven by greed. It is only natural that things are ending up this way, since the divide between rich and poor will only grow, as companies merge and form mega-conglomerates making entry into the market next to impossible.

Capitalism is a wild beast, that when harnessed properly, is the best system available. We just need to implement some socialist ideas so that we can properly control this beast.

**That's just my opinion**

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

Originally posted by pepsi78
United States is in recesion, people hold 3 jobs to be able to earn a living, in this conditions people that are in trouble(most of people) do need alot of social servicing like public healthcare, the competition is just for some, others can't compete especialy in a recesion.So it would only be fair to have social services for people who want it, the rest should be able to do what ever they want and taxing should only be for people who want social service.

So the people who can't afford to pay into such a system in good times, let alone put food on the table, would then receive nothing in bad times.

You need to take economy 101, because you don't seem to understand that money has to come in before you can spend it.

Unless the system is paid into by everyone and everyone then get's the same rights to receive in bad times, the system won't work. It's like any other kind of insurance, where the system works as long as someone is still paying into the system.

Socialism and economics don't mix.

Socialism and living a healthy life kinda mix. You need to find the balance.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by cognoscente]

reply to post by switching yard

"The American system is where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer regardless"


That is either a bold faced lie or incredible ignorance. ANYONE can succeed in America. Work hard, have self discipline, remove yourself from negative people and situations, get up when you're knocked down. As with any and all civilizations there will be injustice, but that is life and human nature, NOT American government

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
I oppose socialism of any kind, related to support of industry.

It appears your opinion is not in agreement with the current action being taken and trends.

Peace

[edit on 20-11-2008 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by switching yard
The American system is where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer regardless.

This is such an ignorant statement, I don't know where to begin.

In America, you have a system where you actually have the ability to BREAK FREE of the poor class. In America, you have the freedom to go out and start your own business and become rich and successful if you're talented and hardworking. Try doing that in Norway. It won't happen because they're taxed to death. They have a low ceiling over their heads. It's not like that in America. In America, the sky is the limit for success.

"The poor get poorer"? What kind of ignorant statement is that? People in America are poor because they refuse to better themselves. They've made poor decisions and gotten into drugs or had too many children out of wedlock. They're uneducated. They refuse to learn any technical or professional skills. They're dropouts and drug addicts. Show me people in America who are poor that took the time and effort to get educated, learned a skill and properly saved their money and planned their family? How many poor people out there waited until wedlock to have kids, learned a skill and got educated before they had their family and resisted drugs and alcohol?

I bet you won't find many. The poor in this country "get poorer" because they refuse to "get better." The poor in this country dig their own hole 99% of the time. Show me one well-educated, hard-working American that responsibly saved their money, responsibly resisted drugs and alcohol and responsibly planned their family (i.e. not hooking up with random strangers at bars and having unprotected sex and shooting out kids left and right) that are living in poverty. I challenge you to find them.

The rich in this country get richer because they are allowed to. They are largely smart, successful people who wisely invested their time and money and resisted the temptations of the lowest common denominator. What's your solution? Punish them for being smart and successful so that the idiots that can't manage their own lives or take responsibility for their actions can make it through the day. This is why our gene pool is getting so weak - we let the lowest common denominator breed the most.

In socialist countries, you don't get better. You stay static. You're forever a nothing and a nobody. You're the pawns of a very select group of people, and you live in a bubble of ignorance, working your tail off to support a government that confiscates all your wages. Give me the American system where I can actually be something if I apply myself ANY DAY.

Socialism is a system of elitism, not Capitalism. There's a reason why you're seeing a loss of the middle class. There's a reason why you're seeing the markets drop. There's a reason why you're seeing the nation decline. It's because of more government regulations, more laws and more taxes. It's because we're moving TOWARD Socialism. You want the middle class to grow? You want the poor class to shrink? Then move AWAY from Socialism. Capitalism breeds the best and the brightest. It breeds innovation. It rewards success brought about by hard work and sacrifice. Socialism suppresses innovation and punishes success. In Socialism, if you work hard and apply yourself, you get your things confiscated. If you're so interested in creating an enlightened society, shrink the government as small as possible and promote LIBERTY AND SUCCESS.

Wanna see the economy grow, along with the middle class? Get rid of the progressive tax system and implement a flat tax. Make everyone pay 20%. You'll see an overnight boom in the economy. You'll see new jobs open up, you'll see stock prices climb, you'll see unemployment drop, you'll see outsourcing of jobs decrease and you'll see the national debt shrink. What's the Socialist's answer? Punish business by doubling the capital gains tax and by taxing the people that employ everyone even more. Great idea

[edit on 20-11-2008 by ChocoTaco369]

reply to post by Frankidealist35


The problem with so called "rights" maybe that they appear not to really exist as opposed to say the second law of thermodynamics or gravity.

Originally posted by ChocoTaco369

In America, you have a system where you actually have the ability to BREAK FREE of the poor class. In America, you have the freedom to go out and start your own business and become rich and successful if you're talented and hardworking.

This could be true if it wasn't for America's extreme corporatism.

The United States as some of the worst economic disparity in the world.

This disenfranchises individuals, keeps people uninformed, and makes it very difficult if not impossible for people to move up when they are forced to completely focus on getting the basic necessities of life.

More socialism policies can help to give people a fighting chance.

Give people a chance to get educated and live an overall higher quality of life.

For more than 50 years the United States has been a country where the rich and powerful manipulate the system for their own advantage and the poor are subjected to the winds of luck.

Technological advancement has improved quality of life for many but relatively the gaps between the rich and the power have increased dramatically.

More socialistic polices can make American the fabled land of opportunity it might have been.

Originally posted by hannamtong
That is either a bold faced lie or incredible ignorance. ANYONE can succeed in America. Work hard, have self discipline, remove yourself from negative people and situations, get up when you're knocked down. As with any and all civilizations there will be injustice, but that is life and human nature, NOT American government

and...

Originally posted by ChocoTaco369
This is such an ignorant statement, I don't know where to begin.

In America, you have a system where you actually have the ability to BREAK FREE of the poor class. In America, you have the freedom to go out and start your own business and become rich and successful if you're talented and hardworking. Try doing that in Norway. It won't happen because they're taxed to death. They have a low ceiling over their heads. It's not like that in America. In America, the sky is the limit for success.

Here is an excerpt from the report that I linked to earlier

By international standards, the United States has an unusually low level of intergenerational mobility: our parents’ income is highly predictive of our incomes as adults. Intergenerational mobility in the United States is lower than in France, Germany, Sweden, Canada, Finland, Norway and Denmark. Among high-income countries for which comparable estimates are available, only the United Kingdom had a lower rate of mobility than the United States.

.

So breaking free from poverty would appear to be easier in Norway than it is in the US. Heck, since the US has such 'unusually low level of intergenerational mobility', breaking free from poverty would be easier almost anywhere.

As George Carlin said. The game is rigged, the table is tilted, folks. It's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.

Originally posted by ChocoTaco369
In America, you have a system where you actually have the ability to BREAK FREE of the poor class. In America, you have the freedom to go out and start your own business and become rich and successful if you're talented and hardworking. Try doing that in Norway. It won't happen because they're taxed to death. They have a low ceiling over their heads. It's not like that in America. In America, the sky is the limit for success.

Seems to me that Norway has the highest standard of living in the world.

Some things in this great nation of ours are your right to practice.
But not everything is the right thing to do.

Jesus Christ

So difficult it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God, for he despises those that have little.

Peace


[edit on 20-11-2008 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by HIFIGUYSome things in this great nation of ours are your right to practice.
But not everything is the right thing to do.

Jesus Christ
So difficult it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God, for he despises those that have little.

Peace

LOL, but shouldn't even going to hell be optional, ones freedom of choice?

How can you legislate and insist everyone must subscribe to someone else's belief system, such as socialism, even though (like the Muslim extremists) you claim it's the righteous path to heaven? Where does any one get off telling another what to believe and subscribe to is best for them?

Some may not want to follow the mandatory socialists nor the Muslims extremists path to heaven. Some don't even want to live in heaven with the socialists and religious dictators and their armies!

Do you see how similar socialists are to the fanatical religious extremists? Say, can I insist what you should believe in and subscribe to instead?

Socialists, religious extremists, keep your belief systems to and among yourselves, and leave those that don't want to play these games ALONE! Then, we'll have peace. Why is this such a problem for so many to understand? Have some never known freedom? Why do some insist it must be their way for everyone? That is so wrong and immoral.

So let me get this straight.... You think it is okay to take from people making $42,000 a year or more give it to people that sit on their asses and don't do #. That is what you agree with. Well, I think your one of those lazy people that wants everything for nothing. So then why should people work hard and succeed? If what they do is going to benifit somebody else? People like you are on the "poor me"" everybody owes me" train. Get off your butt and do it yourself.

Socialism would work well in a society who governs themselves somewhat. This , as to make sure nobody slacks off and does not do their share.
We have too many lazy American's who will take advantage of this, just like they take advantage of the current system. It will be the same, but different.
The Idea is great. It doesn't always work out though. Maybe a mix between Socialism and something else might work.

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
Maybe a mix between Socialism and something else might work.

How about these two: The socialists, and the non-socialists.

Originally posted by Victoria 1
So let me get this straight.... You think it is okay to take from people making $42,000 a year or more give it to people that sit on their asses and don't do #. That is what you agree with. Well, I think your one of those lazy people that wants everything for nothing. So then why should people work hard and succeed? If what they do is going to benifit somebody else? People like you are on the "poor me"" everybody owes me" train. Get off your butt and do it yourself.

I agree.

But the people I'm talking about make a hell of a lot more than 42,000

I am sick and tired of hard working Americans carrying corporate America on their back.

These people need to stop subjugating people and got something done a different way.

We don't owe corporations anything.

America has turned into a plutocracy.

Originally posted by Fletcher33
reply to post by Divinorumus

 

Also, I don't believe that Socialism is the way, but perhaps we can glean what works in many systems and adopt those ideas into our own. I think that any system that is based on money is doomed to fail. Money creates competition and therefore can never be fair to all and is inherently fraught with lies and manipulation. Thanks again!!!

Sorry, I can't imagine a society without money. People always say that money is evil and the world would be better without, but in reality it's not money that's the problem, it's greed.

Money, in itself, is nothing more than a tool that makes bartering for services and items easier.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by Victoria 1
So let me get this straight.... You think it is okay to take from people making $42,000 a year or more give it to people that sit on their asses and don't do #. That is what you agree with. Well, I think your one of those lazy people that wants everything for nothing. So then why should people work hard and succeed? If what they do is going to benifit somebody else? People like you are on the "poor me"" everybody owes me" train. Get off your butt and do it yourself.

I agree.

But the people I'm talking about make a hell of a lot more than 42,000

I am sick and tired of hard working Americans carrying corporate America on their back.

These people need to stop subjugating people and got something done a different way.

We don't owe corporations anything.

America has turned into a plutocracy.

I can't agree with any type of redistribution of wealth. It makes no sense to penalize someone for their success no matter how unfair you make think it is. People need to stop being so envious and worry about themselves instead of going gah-gah-goo-goo over what everyone else has.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by zephyrs]

Socialism advocates the government takeover of the "neccessary" aspects of an economy. The U.S. government is really bad at business (social security, welfare, medicare)
The free market is the best solution to ANY economic situation because it simply allows unsuccessful entities to die and successful ones to prosper. The companies that survive are the ones that meet the needs of the people. Unsuccessful gov entities do not die, they just carry on (social security, welfare, medicare...)
If the gov implements national healthcare, it will be sufficient at first, but with no profit incentives, there is no incentive to invest in better ways of saving peoples life. Healthcare technology stagnates, and thats if we are lucky. In every other case of nationalized healthcare, it has becomes worse.

Originally posted by zephyrs

Originally posted by Fletcher33
reply to post by Divinorumus

 

Also, I don't believe that Socialism is the way, but perhaps we can glean what works in many systems and adopt those ideas into our own. I think that any system that is based on money is doomed to fail. Money creates competition and therefore can never be fair to all and is inherently fraught with lies and manipulation. Thanks again!!!

Sorry, I can't imagine a society without money. People always say that money is evil and the world would be better without, but in reality it's not money that's the problem, it's greed.

Money, in itself, is nothing more than a tool that makes bartering for services and items easier.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by Victoria 1
So let me get this straight.... You think it is okay to take from people making $42,000 a year or more give it to people that sit on their asses and don't do #. That is what you agree with. Well, I think your one of those lazy people that wants everything for nothing. So then why should people work hard and succeed? If what they do is going to benifit somebody else? People like you are on the "poor me"" everybody owes me" train. Get off your butt and do it yourself.

I agree.

But the people I'm talking about make a hell of a lot more than 42,000

I am sick and tired of hard working Americans carrying corporate America on their back.

These people need to stop subjugating people and got something done a different way.

We don't owe corporations anything.

America has turned into a plutocracy.

I can't agree with any type of redistribution of wealth. It makes no sense to penalize someone for their success no matter how unfair you make think it is. People need to stop being so envious and worry about themselves instead of going gah-gah-goo-goo over what everyone else has.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by zephyrs]

Ever consider that it's not envy, but indignation? That people shouldn't have as much money as an entire African nation makes in a year while people are starving to death?

reply to post by Camilo1


Ermmm...Cuba is comunist - NOT socialist. Two very different things.

It's hilarious how many americans get the two confused.