Originally posted by Divinorumus

NOT. Most do not have equal opportunity to succeed. Now, I'm totally against a socialist NWO, but I'm for a socially responsible equal opportunity One World Order. Nothing would please me more than to see all the borders and fences disappear. And, abolish all income/slave taxes (tax things on the front end to pay for social and infrastructure programs). And, lets level the playing field with a One World global currency.

Don't enslave people, or tell them where they can live and work and how much they can earn. Equality is equal opportunity, not socialism.

That is the difference between fair and equal.

Not everything is equal, but if we all have an opportunity it is (more) fair.

What many people fail to understand is that in the corporatism we have today, equal opportunity doesn't exist.

More socialist values can change that and give everyone a REAL chance.

Originally posted by Jezus

What many people fail to understand is that in the corporatism we have today, equal opportunity doesn't exist.

More socialist values can change that and give everyone a REAL chance.

Your second statement contradicts your first. The corporatism we live in today is brought about by corporations using the strong centralized government to further their agenda. Socialism increases the size and scope of government. Increasing the size of government works to increase the power and authority of corporations. Thus socialism equates to increased corporatism.

Well...well...haven't we all been busy on this thread

But i gotta say i like this discussion and as oppose to other threads i must say people are really civil here.

Differences beween America and Europe are to big to sum up but i still would like to clear up one thing about my own country : the Netherlands

WE ARE NOT SOULY SOCIALSTS.....If anything we are liberalists who happen to be very social.
Americans keeps talking about it being the best country in the world and "us americans"......judging from all replies there is no US. Just individuals who don't care about anybody else when it comes to money and sharing.
I believe we all thing in the same direction with the only difference being we (europeans) tend to think as a collective as for for americans are lonely individuals.
So stop it with the socialism and communism 'couse i think that if you did live in a purely socialistic or communistic country you would very much disagree with it being a swell place to live in.

If anything is different (America vs Europa) it's the form of democracy we have.....You are really fond on your freedom but.....
To much democracy can be problem as well. The power of the people just goes to far and looses it purpose. To much democracy discredits democracy….
A good example is the state of California where mayors, police chiefs and governors can be chosen directly by the people. On top of that every civilian can propose their own bill or propose a referendum to send a certain statesman out of office ( a form of direct democracy). This may lead to politicians being preoccupied with their own popularity and are afraid to make unpopular choices witch could be critical.
As a consequence decisions witch only have an effect on the short term are taken in order to influence the public. An other side effect of this is that politicians don’t have to take in consideration the choices they should be making for there only has to be voted “for” or “against” a referendum.

Just my two cents......

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
Well...well...haven't we all been busy on this thread

But i gotta say i like this discussion and as oppose to other threads i must say people are really civil here.

Americans keeps talking about it being the best country in the world and "us americans"......judging from all replies there is no US. Just individuals who don't care about anybody else when it comes to money and sharing.

That's just it, us Americans are not lonely anti-social people who don't care about others. We feel that government intervention in our daily lives only works to create divisions and disrupt human behavior. We get along with each other just fine, and we don't want the big impersonal Federal Government getting in the way. Some of us feel that the more moral thing to do for others is to keep a huge government off their backs. I do appreciate your honest and respect though.

Originally posted by crmanager
Ben Franklin said " The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable being poor."

Nice fellow that Franklin.....i'll bet you anything he wasn't poor...right??

Originally posted by NettleTea
That's just it, us Americans are not lonely anti-social people who don't care about others. We feel that government intervention in our daily lives only works to create divisions and disrupt human behavior. We get along with each other just fine, and we don't want the big impersonal Federal Government getting in the way. Some of us feel that the more moral thing to do for others is to keep a huge government off their backs. I do appreciate your honest and respect though.

Yeah sorry about that.....i know you aren't lonely anti-social people...

I (still) really like America and everything it stand for but aren't you taking it to far on the whole freedom thing.
There has got to be a point were you let goverment do it's work and trust that they are trying to make it a better country for all......

If not than you voted in the wrong people to do the job.......cause if you feel that you have to keep a goverment of your back than democracy isn't really working out all that well over there.

Democracy still means that you (the people) are in control......

I want.

I want.

I want. Sounds like a spoiled 5 year old child.

That's the basis of the lead note on this subject. Not one word about wanting to earn anything. Not one word about expending effort to gain anything. Just I want it, so you have to give it to me.

Are you aware that the top 5% of earners in the USA pay over 50% of all of the federal taxes?

That the bottom 40% of earners pay no income tax at all?

I have lived in socialist countries. There, you take an examination at about age 17, and that exam determines whether or not you go to college or not. Feel bad that dy, too bad, you lost your chance.

I dropped out of 11th grade, went into the Army at 16 and spent 9 years on active duty. I got out, used my G.I. Bill to go to college, and eventually earned my Ed.D in my field. I earned my way up the ladder.

I hope this country never goes the socialist route. In every socialist country, the elite remain the elite, and the lower classes have NO chance of ever attaining that kind of life.

Originally posted by littlehorn
[wow anti-social huh...i seem to recall many instances where in an area of the world plagued by god knows what the good ole US of A is the FIRST one to respond with aid such as medicine, food, clothing and general 'help'....when the tsunami hit Indonesia (a Muslim area) the USA gave SO much, where the RICH Muslim nation of Saudi Arabia barely lifted a finger to help its own people......so watch your mouth when deriding the United States.

And of course America was the only one that came to the rescue right??
We all helped ou over there becuse that was our duty as world citizens..
I wasn't talking about your ablity to help other countries but when it comes to internal affairs things seem to change....

Originally posted by littlehorn
Geedy Americans concerned with money and not sharing is BS....wilst the world toils away with hating us and everything we stand for...these same countries cant rush quick enough to our cinema to emulate our fashion to read our authors to shop in our cities to model Democracy after us..the list goes on......seems a bit hypocritical to me.

This my friend is called delusional. Where did you get this info cause last i looked we are pretty happy with our own democracy

Originally posted by littlehorn
and thru it all WE Americans remain THE BEST nation in the world today! Chew on that
[edit on 19-11-2008 by littlehorn]

chewed on it but didn't like it.....and by the way check your bloodpressure...

One of the greatest and most effective motivators on Earth is hunger. Take that out of the picture and we'll need a nanny state. There's a reason why you're not suppose to feed the pigeons, unless of course they have a broken wing or something like that. The first socialist I catch feeding me and mine and I'll peck your eyes out.

I'd like to see what would happen if the people who are proclaiming socialism is beautiful suddenly won a couple million dollars, and were asked to give most of it to those who "need it more" (it's only fair, right?)

Those same people would be screaming how horrible and evil socialism
is.

Originally posted by Divinorumus
One of the greatest and most effective motivators on Earth is hunger. Take that out of the picture and we'll need a nanny state. There's a reason why you're not suppose to feed the pigeons, unless of course they have a broken wing or something like that. The first socialist I catch feeding me and mine and I'll peck your eyes out.

So after 8 pages i finally get your point.....

You are afraid that many others will come and take away whats yours.
But on what experience do you base these fears. In the Netherlands we have an unendless stream of foreigners poring into our country and inspite of what you may believe we give them housing, schooling and jobs.... and you know what..... they can really be an asset.
Sure there are people overhere that feel the same as you but whats the alternative...kick them back to their country where they would be killed for leaving in the first place....that's not very civil now is it....

Originally posted by littlehorn

eh..whatever Queensryche(great band btw). All im saying is we set the standard globally, regardless of what we're speaking of. And yes we usually ARE the first in line and the first to encourage the satellite nations(UN nations) to do same same. Fact is most people look to the west for answers and we do the best we can to help other nations/peoples best we can..even when its in our best interest not too...this could be attributed to us being a 'christian' nation, im not sure. Now, internally, im not clear what you mean..i know that every nation in the world has its internal issues not unlike our own...so when you say USA Internal Issues how are ours any diff than any others? Thats kinda unclear to me, where you stand on that arguement.

Since we are talking natural disasters here how about Catrina, you go half way around the world to help people but in your own country a little water damage is noting to get concerned about.....????
And don't tell me that was the goverments fault because that was a goverment you democratically choose.....right??

Originally posted by littlehorn
Anyhoo i tire of typing the obvious...the US is the best, toughest, kindest, smartest, greatest nation today... and its kinda that simple.

ofcourse it is....it the place were superheroes and mickey mouse come from.....