Those behind the Obama Birth Cert conspiracy

WHO HOOOOOOOO!!!!! WHat an information overload! Awesome thread! Great debate BOTH ways! Now all we need is a definate winner... OBAMA: You out there? Here with us on ATS???? Come on man! Let loose a Birth Certificate!!!! (Preferably your own)

reply to post by themamayada


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "all the documents" showing he was adopted is in fact just one very old school enrollment form where his step father checked that Barak was an Indonesian citizen. That hardly leads me to believe his step father adopted him.

It does leads me to believe that his father 'snuck' him in to a little Indonesian school.

The reason why these law suits are ridiculed and thrown out of the courts, as well as ignored by the MSM, is because there is no concrete evidence he is not a U.S. citizen. It's all opinion, heresay, and incredible leaps of logic to come to the conclusion he is not a citizen.

There's a few things that are off about this guy. Like why was his collage transcripts sealed? Why did the Gov of Hawaii seal his birth cert? If this were anybody else the press would be demanding to see screaming cover up. But since it's obama it's "Oh, their sealed? Okey, never mind."

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherageThis is a non-issue. If Obama was a citizen when he went to Indonesia I have no doubts the US would have no trouble defending his citizenship now.

Not true.

Let me reiterate - you *must* give up all other citizenships according to Indonesian law to become an Indonesian citizen. Indonesia does not recognize dual citizenship. So when he filled out the paperwork to become an Indonesian citizen at e.g. the Embassy, he at the same time had to fill out papers renouncing his US citizenship. That's just the way it works there.

And as far as US recognizing dual citizenship...

The dual citizenship situations generally pertain to citizenship-by-birth, not when the US citizen naturalizes in another country.

So let's give him the benefit of the doubt - that somehow he never truly renounced his US citizenship (paperwork got lost, he was under duress, etc. etc.) - the US still does not recognize him as a citizen anymore, since he became an Indonesian citizen. Indonesia does not recognize dual citizenships - so the US cannot allow him to be a "dual citizen."

Now if it was Canada and the US - yes, you can have dual citizenship to both.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by themamayada]

reply to post by mrwupy


It's the same thing with the Pentagon attack, no video, and 9/11

If they just simply released the actual footage of a plane hitting one of the major holes in the 9/11 story would go away and people would have to shut up about it.

But they don't because there is no plane video - just more debunkers and dead ends.

Same thing with Obama's birth certificate

If they just produced the original birth certificate they could shut these people up and shut down this conspiracy - but they don't because they cant! All they can do is go where the talk is and throw in a long story about who is behind it and try to take some of the heat off this story.

In a way - the Government is its own worst enemy - they have disinfo trolls to try and clear things up with more words, but never any evidense which just deepens the questions and the conspiracy!

Idiots!

Their logic:
"Just keep posting rhetoric and continue to debunk with words not evidense, sooner or later they will all get tired of the argument and go away. We only need to buy ourselves 4 - 8 more years. We made it through 8 years with 9/11 questions and they got no where, we can do it again. Stupid slave citizens."


[edit on 17-11-2008 by arizonascott]

Originally posted by themamayada

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherageThis is a non-issue. If Obama was a citizen when he went to Indonesia I have no doubts the US would have no trouble defending his citizenship now.

Not true.

Let me reiterate - you *must* give up all other citizenships according to Indonesian law to become an Indonesian citizen. Indonesia does not recognize dual citizenship. So when he filled out the paperwork to become an Indonesian citizen at e.g. the Embassy, he at the same time had to fill out papers renouncing his US citizenship. That's just the way it works there.

And as far as US recognizing dual citizenship...

The dual citizenship situations generally pertain to citizenship-by-birth, not when the US citizen naturalizes in another country.

So let's give him the benefit of the doubt - that somehow he never truly renounced his US citizenship (paperwork got lost, he was under duress, etc. etc.) - the US still does not recognize him as a citizen anymore, since he became an Indonesian citizen. Only if a person is born in Germany, then becomes a US citizen, that person can get away with having "dual citizenship."

But you're making an incredible deductive leap by stating he went to the embassy to declare Indonesian citizenship and renounce his U.S. citizenship. There is no concrete proof that Obama ever did any of that.

We know that Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, but Indonesian law is not U.S. law. U.S. law is going to trump any other foreign law when it comes to citizens.

Here's what we know for sure:

There is no paperwork at any embassy that Obama had ever declared for Indonesia and renounced the U.S.

Obama was too young to renounce U.S. citizenship, regardless of the situation.

U.S. law supercedes Indonesian law

I mean c'mon, do you think a court would take this argument seriously? The courts uphold U.S. law, not Indonesian law. The entire argument is based squarely on Indonesian law, which the U.S. does not recognize and does not/will not legislate from. He is a natural born citizen in the only law that matters in this situation - U.S. law. Britain, Kenya, and Indonesia need not apply.

reply to post by themamayada


But how could he give it up as a child? How does being adopted by an Indonesian father mean he gave up his citizenship? Again, this is not just about Indonesia's policy; this is about the US's policy as well.

reply to post by themamayada

the US still does not recognize him as a citizen anymore, since he became an Indonesian citizen

Again, it is very likely that a court would rule in his favor on this issue (Since Obama was born in the US and lived in Indonesia for a small period of time when he was a child.). It would not be the first time citizenship issues like this were tackled. I’m curious as to why you believe this is an issue when he was already cleared to serve as President? Do you think that those who cleared him know less about this citizenship issue than you do? So far you seem to be basing this all on something stated in his bio. Perhaps he was never even officially adopted by his step father.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by Avenginggecko


If he was born in Kenya and was enrolled by his father in an Indonesian school, it would be his birth father that declared him of Islamic faith and a muslim because that is the only way you can attend school in Indonesia.

If proven. that would certainly apply to U.S. law in proving that Obama - is not a natural born citizen

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
I’m curious as to why you believe this is an issue when he was already cleared to serve as President? Do you think that those who cleared him know less about this citizenship issue than you do?

Sorry for just popping in, but I have to ask - WHO cleared him? When was he cleared and is there any proof he was cleared at all?

In all these discussions about the Birth Cert. I have learned that a Presidential candidate is not Vetted until AFTER becoming pres-elect - the VP candidate is vetted, but not the Pres Candidate.

So if you have information about Obama being cleared that hasn't been offered in many of these discussions, I'd really like to see it

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I think the problem that some have is that there is no official government agency that vets Presidential candidates or verifies the 3 prerequisites the Constitution lays out for one to be qualified to run for the office of President.

It is left up to the parties to verify that their candidate meets the requirements of the Constitution.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


The fact that he was enrolled in an Indonesian school and at that time was of the Islamic faith and a muslim doesn't bother you at all in this day and age.

Wow

Especially with his questionable political coaches with extremist ties

Again - Wow

[edit on 17-11-2008 by arizonascott]

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
You guys that say he has already provided his birth certificate might want to do a little bit of research.

First a certification of live birth is not a birth certificate.
A certification of live birth is a short form used in place of a birth certificate.

Now what Obama should have provide is called a Long Form

State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes ¤338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record

www.honoluluadvertiser.com...

Obama has provided his "long form" to the appropriate authorities, so he has when he became a US senator, and numerous times when going overseas and obviously when he decided to run for president. Who are you to demand the president elect bend on his knees to a disgruntled minority of voters who will always have some issue? Really now!

Oh I love this one...

Hawai'i's Supreme Court denied Martin's request on Oct. 22 to expedite the hearing.

my dont I feel like a big man demanding something of mccain because I dont like the man.. oh wait its not my place to do that, this is why we have government officials and the other rival campaigns to look into it for us.

I mean you know its amazing, when your but a small part of the population who just cant get beyond the reality of the elections a week ago so you demand the world to stop for you. Aint ganna happen buddy.

Hey I can demand stuff on little technicalities aswell.

However, the only statute in effect in 1936 did not cover the Canal Zone. Recognizing the gap, in 1937, Congress passed a citizenship law applicable only to the Canal Zone, granting Senator McCain citizenship, but eleven months too late for him to be a citizen at birth. Because Senator John McCain was not a citizen at birth, he is not a "natural born Citizen" and thus is not "eligible to the Office of President" under the Constitution.

But see even that doesn't matter. Obama became a citizen of Indonesia. now you ask how could he have become a citizen of Indonesia? very simple. The laws on the book in 1961 say that citizenship follows the custodial parent. Since his mother after marring Obamas step father and moving to Indonesia became an Indonesian citizen so did Obama.

Wrong.

Indonesia citizen is:

an autochthon residing within the territory of the Indonesian State;

a person who does not fall under the abovementioned. group, but is a descedant of a person out of that group, born and resided within the territory of the Indonesian State as well as a person who is no descedant of a person of the meant group, born and resided within the territory of the Indonesian State for the last 5 consecutive years, already 21 years of age or already married, unless he declares to have objections against becoming an Indonesian citizen due to the fact that he is a citizen of another country;

Under Indonesian law if your mother marries an Indonesian the child must remain in Indonesia for atleast five years to gain citizenship or must be under five years to automatically gain citizenship there, in addition since Indonesia in the time did not recognize duel citizenship he would not have been permitted one on his way back to Hawaii. So either way he arrived at Indonesia when he was six and his mother married little after, that means that he would have to wait five years to get citizenship as he was 6years old already. His father applied him into Indonesian schools under his name, his step father obviously broke the law during the time to get his step son into school for the time being but obviously Obama had no control of that as he was just a kid.

The minute Obama left back for Hawaii at the age of ten, the time of opportunity to gain any Indonesian citizenship closed so he never had duel citizenship.

As for Kenya, that be debunked my friend:
www.factcheck.org...
kenya.rcbowen.com...

also been confirmed that under no circumstance has Obama attained Kenyan duel citizenship by politifact.

More to come.

Berg, keys and Corsi are all limelight chasers and their full of cr*p if you ask me. Your choice to jump on that bandwagon, but you would have to deal with the obvious negative luggage in the back.

Originally posted by AvenginggeckoPlease correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "all the documents" showing he was adopted is in fact just one very old school enrollment form where his step father checked that Barak was an Indonesian citizen.

Allegedly, it was Mrs. Obama (Michelle) that stated her husband was adopted by a foreignor.

www.wnd.com...

They apparently have a recorded conversation (obtained illegally, since she was unaware of the taping). In it, she allegedly states:

"African Press International is supposed to support Africans and African-American view," she reportedly said. "It is strange that API has chosen to support the racists against my husband. There is no shame in being adopted by a stepfather. All dirt has been thrown onto my husband's face and yet he loves this country. ... He was born in Hawaii, yes, and that gives him all the right to be an American citizen even though he was adopted by a foreigner."

The mainstream media is not reporting this, but alot of foreign websites I read frequently have been talking about this for weeks.

Those kind of sources do nothing other than make your entire contribution look foolish and ill-considered.

Get real......or at least reconsider the use of those sites.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by MrPenny]

Originally posted by arizonascott
reply to post by Avenginggecko

 

If he was born in Kenya and was enrolled by his father in an Indonesian school, it would be his birth father that declared him of Islamic faith and a muslim because that is the only way you can attend school in Indonesia.

If proven. that would certainly apply to U.S. law in proving that Obama - is not a natural born citizen

True, but it was his step father who enrolled him in Indonesian school, not his birth father, and as of yet there is no hard proof he was anywhere near Kenya when he was born, just conjecture.

We can assume that even if his step father followed Indonesian law to the letter and adopted Obama, he was still too young to renounce citizenship for the U.S., and as such, when he returned to the U.S., the law of our land superceded any Indonesian law that would affect his citizenship.

reply to post by redhatty


The DNC. This was actually a factor in the Berg case.

reply to post by arizonascott

The fact that he was enrolled in an Indonesian school and at that time was of the Islamic faith and a muslim doesn't bother you at all in this day and age.

Nope. Most children do not pick their school or religion and if he was a Muslim I wouldn’t care one bit. I know very few, some I’ve known have been good people and some have been bad people. Muslim does not equal being an extremist communist terrorist, as some people seem to have confused. Being Muslim does not affect his ability to lead, in my opinion. You may feel differently, that’s fine with me.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


The DNC is not an official government entity or office. It is a political party. The candidate isn't vetted by the government before the election....only after.



[edit on 11/17/2008 by skeptic1]

Originally posted by mrwupy
This would go away instantly if he would simply produce his birth certificate, rather than a certificate of live birth.

The debacle is just as much his fault as it is those who raise the questions.

Why won't he produce his birth certificate?

Because no one else is required to provide these either.

Can you say double standard?