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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 11:33 AM by jam321
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What I want to know is who gave the Hawaii department of health permission to verify Obama's birth certificate?
A search of the records on file with the Department of Health will only be conducted to process an application requesting either a certified copy
or a letter of verification. If the search establishes that the requested record is not on file, you will be notified that no record has been found.
No searches of the records on file with the Department of Health will be conducted prior to or outside of the receipt of an application and payment of
fees.
hawaii.gov...
Sounds to me that they might have violated their own policy as stated on their website.
....the plot thickens ........ 
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 12:23 PM by drock905
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It's amazing how many people are accepting anything said about this guy. A Hawaiian offical says its so and you all blindly accept it. I thought we
were supposed to demand evidence. Not trust everything the government says.
I'll give Obama the benefit of doubt on this issue. But I am not eliminating the possibilty of something fishy with his bc.
Its strange to me how many of you are in LOVE with this guy. He is infalliable in your eyes. He hasn't even done anything yet, other then get
elected.
Its just a Cult of Personality.
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 12:31 PM by themamayada
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I thought it was more than just the birth certificate thing. It's well known his Mom married an Indonesian citizen - and they all moved to Indonesia
in his youth. To go to public school there, which Obama did, you have to become an Indonesian citizen. The problem is Indonesia does not recognize
dual citizenship - therefore, the minute he became an Indonesian citizen, he "lost" US citizenship (if he ever had it to begin with). When he left
Indonesia to come back to the US with his grandparents in Hawaii - and here's where the waters get murky - he never re-became (my new word) a US
citizen again. So the theory goes he's actually a Indonesian citizen living "illegally" in the US right now... and therefore not qualified to be
President. Heck, not even qualified to be living in the US without a green card!
Article from CNN.com acknowledging the Indonesian schooling:
www.cnn.com...
Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide
said it was not a madrassa.
[edit on 17-11-2008 by themamayada]
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 12:36 PM by Kaploink
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Originally posted by maybereal11
There is no "debacle" with the exception of folks like yourself.
Producing his birth certificate to Berg...even responding to Berg or his ilk is like playing fetch with a rabid dog. Berg et al is not interested in
truth or justice...
Your right, he will never be satisfied with any evidence provided. His goal is not the truth, but rather to destroy Obama. The very same goal of most
of the people latching onto his bandwagon.
The most humorous thing about this whole thing is that we are suppose to believe the federal government headed by a Republican didn't do a thorough
investigation on whether Obama met the requirements to run for the presidency. Despite the fact they have access to all the records. Of course, the
Bush administration could be part of the conspiracy to cover up the truth about Obama. 
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 12:43 PM by jam321
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reply to post by Kaploink
The most humorous thing about this whole thing is that we are suppose to believe the federal government headed by a Republican didn't do a
thorough investigation on whether Obama met the requirements to run for the presidency.
Could you tell me what agency is required to verify the birth certificates?
Are you talking about the Republican leader who did a number on McCain?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 12:43 PM by Jkd Up
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I have to agree with a comment brought up already: Why don't they just come ot with aa birth certificate?
Why is it that when someone brings a question up about the president-elect there's a big problem. Has anyone forgotten about the media storms of
past elections. If anything, Obama has to do this:
He has to have his game TIGHT! Evey i dotted, every T crossed. The "Hatful media is there no matter the person. But he is still a target because
there are persistant things that HAVE NOT been discredited.
He's got to work harder and better to discredit and move on. He is not doing this. It' not the media's fault. It's not a smear campaign... He
can't lay the skeleton to rest... They are goingn to keep jumping on it!
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 12:44 PM by rapinbatsisaltherage
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reply to post by themamayada
Why would the US not recognize that Obama was born here and that he is a citizen just because Indonesia doesn’t acknowledge dual citizenship? What
is the US policy for that?
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 12:48 PM by slicobacon
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Let's see:
1- Obama seals his birth records
2- Obama won't produce certificate of live birth
3- The whole Indonesia school thing
4- Obama's African family members who all claim they remember when he was born in Kenya
Something's fishy! A similar question came up about McCain being born in Panama - but he got it sorted out so the conspiracy died. Obama can't
squash this one because - like I said - SOMETHING IS FISHY!
All he has to do to make this go away is show his certificate of live birth. End of conspiracy. Done.
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 12:54 PM by Avenginggecko
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reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
A foreign entity can not strip a U.S. citizen of their citizenship, whether they are a minor or an adult. People who make the "Obama was adopted"
argument are making an assumption that a minor (in elementary school no less) willingly renounced it, I suppose. And I do believe it's already been
covered that in accordance with U.S. law a minor can not renounce citizenship until the age of 14, which Obama was not, so the point is kind of
moot.
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe U.S. law is always going to trump all other law when it comes to their citizens/interests. That's why soldiers
abroad are prosecuted for crimes by military tribunals and not by foreign governments.
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 12:55 PM by neformore
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Originally posted by Marcus Calpurnius
You gotta love the mods and posters coming out of the woodwork to dismiss a conspiracy, on a conspiracy forum. Of course, these exact same people
support a whole forum dedicated to blaming 9/11 on Bush and would probably still claim Bush stole the 2000 election.
Hmm. methinks you do protesteth wrongly.
See.... some people blame Bush for 9/11, and some people claim he stole the election. Being a Mod on ATS doesn't mean you have to
believe, or support the belief of either. I mean, it's a nice try in deflecting the issue, or to attempt to negate my opinion (shock! horror! mod has
an opinion....call the national guard....)
Still some people (see where I'm going with this?) might think Obama doesn't have a valid birth certificate.
Their opinion is no more or less valid on that issue that someone who belives that 9/11 was an inside job and Bush stole the election.
Fact is - as I said - hes damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
I will say that if anyone believes the Democrat party machinery didn't have this all sewn up and verified before they let their candidate run and
actually get the keys to the Whitehouse then they are suffering from minor delusions. The guys who hate the dems hate the Clintons even more, and do
you honestly think Barry O would have got past their particular screening in the primaries running on a bent ticket that would ultimately
completely discredit all things Democrat when Billary could be in posession of the White House keys now?
Mind you, if she had have been elected, the forum would be full of mysogynists complaining about her instead of what we're seeing here.
Oddly - and I find this highly amusing - we'd have been having very similar discussions about birth certificates from the other side of the
fence had McCain won - as its highly possible that he was born in a civilian hospital outside the US military zone, notwithstanding the fact that his
parents were US citizens, because some polical zealot on the Dem side would have filed suits on the "not on US soil" part, just for the hell of
it.
The politics of smear. Dumb it down and keep churning it out over and over and hope that some of the mud sticks.
Please note the tags around this post.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
[edit on 17/1108/08 by neformore]
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 12:57 PM by MrPenny
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I swear this is like a Monty Python skit. I'll try to help.
First, how the hell do you suppose Indonesia can strip someone of U.S. citizenship? How is that possible? Regardless of how they feel about dual
citizenship?
Second, the United States permits dual citizenship.
US Dual Citizenship: The U.S. government allows dual citizenship. United States law recognizes U.S. Dual
Citizenship.....Source
Let's just go ahead and take this to the next comical level....
I don't think Obama has a penis.....never seen it....sure, he looks like a man, sounds like a man.....but, can we be really sure until he "whips
this thing out..."?
"Why doesn't he just produce his birth certificate and get this over with?"
Get what "over with?" Someones rabid, bizarre ranting? Here's a clue Sherlock......HE DOESN'T HAVE TO......
[edit on 17-11-2008 by MrPenny]
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 01:05 PM by rapinbatsisaltherage
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reply to post by MrPenny
"Why doesn't he just produce his birth certificate and get this over with?"
Get what "over with?" Someones rabid, bizarre ranting? Here's a clue Sherlock......HE DOESN'T HAVE TO......
That’s what I have trouble understanding. Don’t these people get that Obama has done everything he needs to and that he doesn’t have to waste
time deflecting people’s conspiracy theories against him? He did what was required of him to run for president; all this other stuff is irrelevant.
If you aren’t satisfied at this point I doubt you will ever be.
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 01:06 PM by DavidU
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Star and flagged, excellent thread!
It's good to see these closet right-wingers get exposed for what they are. Let's not forget Jerome Corsi and Webster Tarpley who frequently have
guest spots with Jeff Rense and Alex Jones. All of them claim to be "outside of the left/right paradigm" but it was clear who their favored
candidate was... the amount of attacks on Obama versus McCain were substantial. And don't give me the "less of two evils" argument as it's clear
McCain would've been Bush III...NOTHING can be more evil than Bush.
The smear campaign against Obama was uncalled for. I've never seen so much "accepted" bigotry in all of my life. Accusing him of being a Muslim as
if it were a negative thing. Conservatives need to go lick their wounds and come back in four years. The man hasn't even been inaugurated and already
the Rush Limbaugh's are holding him responsible for the current state of the economy.
Can one of you Obama-haters answer this one thing: Why would the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii try to cover up for Obama??
[edit on 17-11-2008 by DavidU]
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 01:06 PM by themamayada
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Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage Why would the US not recognize that Obama was born here and that he is a citizen just because
Indonesia doesn’t acknowledge dual citizenship? What is the US policy for that?
There are a number of policies surrounding that:
From US Citizenship info website:
www.uscitizenship.info...
If an American citizen were to apply for citizenship in another country, must s/he give up the US citizenship? If not, what are the conditions?
What about dual citizenship?
If one takes up citizenship in another country, then the US will consider that person to no longer be a citizen.
The dual citizenship situations generally pertain to citizenship-by-birth, not when the US citizen naturalizes in another country.
Now here's the kicker - he would have had to give up US citizenship when he went over to Indonesia. According to all the bio info on Obama, his
Indonesian father adopted him. Now whether this alone makes him an automatic Indonesian citizen - I don't know. But to attend school there, you
*must* be an Indonesian citizen. So, maybe this applies:
From Dept of State website:
travel.state.gov...
Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section
349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature
and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S.
citizenship.
Now, let's assume he did renounce his US citizenship while a youngster because he was pressured into it by Mom & Dad. He had an opportunity when he
turned 18 to reverse that. See below from Dept of State website again:
(Section 351(b) of the INA provides that an applicant who renounced his or her U.S. citizenship before the age of eighteen can have that
citizenship reinstated if he or she makes that desire known to the Department of State within six months after attaining the age of eighteen.
So, if this is all true, did he ever do this last part? If not, he's here illegally.
[edit on 17-11-2008 by themamayada]
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reply posted on 17-11-2008 @ 01:12 PM by rapinbatsisaltherage
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reply to post by themamayada
This is a non-issue. If Obama was a citizen when he went to Indonesia I have no doubts the US would have no trouble defending his citizenship now.
McCain was not born in the US; his citizenship was defended though because of the circumstances of his birth. Since Obama was actually born here this
shouldn’t be an issue. I still don’t see how an Indonesian parent adopting him would take away his US citizenship, under US policy.
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