Please tell me this bible verse does not mean what I think it does!

Originally posted by tgambill
I guess you could classify me as Christian, however, I do not claim any one religion but it leans toward Christianity. Let me explain. I believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, God in human form, died for my sins and rose again to be our savior. Romans 10:9. Religion was invented to control and manipulate plus to distort the truth even within Christianity or Catholism. Satan uses religious dogma to lure mankind from the truth very cleverly. Away from the truth of Jesus. The Holy Bible is his final word for us......this is why Clergy that intends to deceive interprets for those that don't study the Bible on their own, or pray for guidance. This is why the Atheist or Luciferians come up with clever forgies and "experts" that find this new discovery and so forth which is what will justify the entrance of the anti-christ.....the false messiah yet to come.





reply to post by DigitalKid

 

But what about all the previous "sons of god" with all the same statistics, born of a virgin, 12 diciples etc, isn't this all far too much of a coincidence to make Jesus true? Surely this is all the disguise for Amen Ra the Egyption god who all christians secretly worship by being decieved?

Poppy day has just gone 11/11/11 = 33 / 33 degrees?(11th hour/11th Day/11th Month) people wear there poppy and go to the "'Cenotaph" or Obelisk...

A Cenotaph is an empty tomb and its made from a special ancient stone (I suggest you look into this... But I will tell you that 'Morpheus' is the god of dreams and his father 'Hypnos' was the god of sleep. The poppy is associated with putting 'people to sleep' and it symbolises just that.

Can you remember the scene from Wizard of OZ where they are put to sleep in a field of Poppies?

I realise I went off on one there but just pointing a few things out the rabbit goes SOOOOO deep.

Symbolism is everywhere and its not just in religion we are being fooled on a GRAND scale!




[edit on 11-11-2008 by DigitalKid]

[edit on 11-11-2008 by DigitalKid]

[edit on 11-11-2008 by DigitalKid]

tgambill
And I would agree completely with your whole post ..in fact I have said the same things over and over again on my posts when this subject comes up.

Nice post ..star for ya for sure ..
good homework too .

Wolf you didnt read my link about the notes of the Apostles that was found before the NT was written ..because if you had you would have seen dates etc ...for those books ...and who wrote them .

[edit on 11-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
sadly people always belive somone aslong as their popular and they say god told them. Just like today Mormons, Christians, and Muslims all have their present day revelators who if they desired could convice millions of lost people to kill for them. It doesnt matter if it makes sense only "if it came from god". The only words important in the bible are the words of Jesus. All of old testament is retarded by now.

I have to disagree with you here, at least from a born-again stand point. There is nothing that could make me kill someone... I don't care if they found a verse in the bible and twisted it to mean that. No one could convince me that murder is justified... for ANY reason.

Sadly there are those who are weak minded or just prone to violence who would love any excuse to kill someone. So sad.

Simply someone that doesn't believe in God or Satan or supernatual forces or so.......which brings to mind the coming world order has you, if you are an atheist and not Luciferian, in their sights. Luciferians/Satanist are using Atheist now to further their plan to get rid of Islam, Christianity and Atheism all in one swoop. they are very clever. they forment a war, which they have, between Islam and christianity with this fake war on terror, [i am a former Marine and learned this truth], and then after the two groups have basically fought it out, yet to come, they will turn on you and force you to worship the anti-christ, Lucifer or die; yet to come. The truth is they won't achieve fully their agenda. They will for a short while however.


reply to post by Good Wolf

[I have to disagree with you here, at least from a born-again stand point. There is nothing that could make me kill someone... I don't care if they found a verse in the bible and twisted it to mean that. No one could convince me that murder is justified... for ANY reason.

Sadly there are those who are weak minded or just prone to violence who would love any excuse to kill someone. So sad. ]

I wouldnt either ..I would not even do it in a self defense situation.
I didnt even hit back when my ex was beating me .I didnt want to hurt him .
I was praying for him as he beat me .

Originally posted by tgambill
Simply someone that doesn't believe in God or Satan or supernatual forces or so

Well this seems the only part of your post that wasn't ramblings.

There is one key aspect that you are missing.

An atheist is a person who doesn't have any faith (in the religious sense).
It's important to know that since there is no evidence for or against a God, we do not believe (have faith) either way.


Now that we have that out of the way I want to point out again that the gospels are no eyewitness accounts and no one is sure who wrote them.

Originally posted by The Stand
After reading the bible and some other very interesting books, I have been contemplating that the bible may have been a plan to take over the world physically, mentally and spiritually. A lot of verses seem to imply harm to anybody who does not think like this god wants. Other verses I do not even want to think about because they make me sick as to think god is telling these people to do what I think he is. For example, what does this verse mean? Numbers 31:17-18 “now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

[edit on 9-11-2008 by The Stand]

How you can take one verse from the old testament and then extrapolate from that the entire reason for the Bible... simply blows me away. It is this type of reasoning that leads to mass killings. You have to look at the context of the entire thing. First, this is old testament from a time that killing was the norm. Even God of the old testament exacted punishment on human beings until Christ came and brought with him a new convenant with his blood.

This DOES NOT happen anymore. Do you know how many strange laws we have on our books since America was founded? Do you look for those strange obscure little laws and judge us on that? No. And therefore you should not judge the entire bible on just one verse. That is wrong.

Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek. It may not mean that much to you now because it just seems right... BUT BACK THEN it was an incredible idea! Turn the other cheek? No revenge? It sounded horrible to them. It took a lot to get that ingrained into our thinking... thousands of years actually. How many are still willing, even today, to turn the other cheek. It is difficult... but we know its the right thing to do.

I hope those examples help explain why your thinking on this is in error. There will be many out there that will agree with you who have an axe to grind over religion because God didn't get them that bike they wanted when they were nine.. but they are wrong. One should never take one small thing and use that to explain the entire thing... it doesn't work.

If you read the bible really read the bible you will find the God depicted there is a malignant narcissist. He is vicious cruel and unyeilding not to mention exceedinly vain. However if you decide that the bible is written by man then it has nothing at all to do with God except the perceptions of what people think He is. Same as today. Who is God to you. Go with your heart not with mans written word.

atheism

Critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or divine beings. Unlike agnosticism, which leaves open the question of whether there is a God, atheism is a positive denial. It is rooted in an array of philosophical systems. Ancient Greek philosophers such as Democritus and Epicurus argued for it in the context of materialism. In the 18th century David Hume and Immanuel Kant, though not atheists, argued against traditional proofs for God's existence, making belief a matter of faith alone. Atheists such as Ludwig Feuerbach held that God was a projection of human ideals and that recognizing this fiction made self-realization possible. Marxism exemplified modern materialism. Beginning with Friedrich Nietzsche, existentialist atheism proclaimed the death of God and the human freedom to determine value and meaning. Logical positivism holds that propositions concerning the existence or nonexistence of God are nonsensical or meaningless.
encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com...

Sounds like your an Agnostic Athiest Wolf ..

If they dont believe in God then they will be able to be played by satan doing his will .
But they dont believe in satan either so they wont even know it .
The bible says there is no middle area ..no gray area ..
You either believe or you dont .
If you dont serve God then your serving satan (the flesh and carnal mindedness) ...Earth and earthly ....carnal ..
lukewarmers will also be spit out of his mouth .(Alot of todays supposed Christians will fall into this category)

I believe in Jesus also, but im sorry DigiKid hit it on the nose. People honestly believe if you dont know jesus you are not permitted into paradise. That is truly false, for all im concerned jesus is a name. The character behind that name (yeshua) may lead ones path to 'light' but it is clearly not the only way. Listen to Bob and he speaks very eloquently about "the light and vibration" and 'the path' and not once did I hear him say hey-zeus, I am certain he found the light.
But whatever floats your boat.
Good post from everyone and a piece of advice.....there is a happy medium for all of us. Do not let the negative forces win by tearing our ATS family of truth pursuers apart

"But what about all the previous "sons of god" with all the same statistics, born of a virgin, 12 diciples etc, isn't this all far too much of a coincidence to make Jesus true? Surely this is all the disguise for Amen Ra the Egyption god who all christians secretly worship by being decieved?"


******You make very good points. You see, Satan knows what is going on, he knows what is being written and what has been experienced since the beginning of creation. He is a master of deception and has copied using his own worshippers and menions. The coincidences prove this out. It is taken opposite as you said and that is the purpose of deception. Google everything I say and make an attempt to prove me wrong as this is what I do to myself. The search for truth is not a search for what I want to be true, I search for what is truth. I question everything, pro and con. The disguise is to cover the truth about the real God and his only begotten son Jesus. Google Disney....this shocked me. He was a sub member of the Illuminati. They have taken magic and made it fantasy when God, the one God uses his will to breath life and create the universe or as shown by Jesus.....the real miracles and not these fake ones that are deceiving people.

The sons of god were fallen angels given human form, long story short. I found this out after much prayer, study and research and keeping an open mind which was hard in this study. Its extremely radical but true. They are the source of the UFO's, the "aliens" which are really demonic and preparing the way for the anti-christ. The sons of god were the source of knowledge of Good and evil, ie, horoscope, occult etc........

These gods are demons used by Satan to control and mislead. I know, I know..this sounds crazy but its true per the Bible not me.

Yes I remember the Wizard of Oz. This is what we are living now.....the truth is worse than fiction I've found.

You didn't go off at all.........this whole truth is off for us four dimensional beings. You are touching the fringes of truth about the supernatural. that is the first step to know they exist. Its not a rabbit hole, its an ant farm and hill with tunnels everywhere.....its beyond a rabbit hole......

They are lying to us massively. You can bring the entities into this world with ritual and human sacrifice. Its ugly and real. Its not just in religion but the current government is completely covert and controlled by the CFR, high level Masons, deep inside the Vatican. Their thinktankers are the CFR, Bilderbergers, Trilateral commission and I know for a fact our [united States] history books are virtually USELESS. I'll issue a challenge to any college professor, or Dr. of history and politics to refute the truth that is being hidden from us as you so rightly pointed out.

The entities that we speak of are attracted to the symbols, the Satanic and Luciferian symbols as you already know.........they actually attract these demons to the person wearing them. The symbols are logos and they are there for a reason. They are the corporations that have turned to the Luciferian side and the Satanic design of the New World Order..........you are on track with this. It is beyond a grand scale it is a world wide scale.

Symbolism is everywhere and its not just in religion we are being fooled on a GRAND scale!

"Now that we have that out of the way I want to point out again that the gospels are no eyewitness accounts and no one is sure who wrote them."

You are completely wrong here. You have no evidence to back this up and evidence I've presented does show both sides. So, clearly you have been discredited since there are established two different viewpoints no matter who is correct. You are busted.




reply to post by Good Wolf

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Originally posted by tgambill
Simply someone that doesn't believe in God or Satan or supernatual forces or so

Well this seems the only part of your post that wasn't ramblings.

There is one key aspect that you are missing.

An atheist is a person who doesn't have any faith (in the religious sense).
It's important to know that since there is no evidence for or against a God, we do not believe (have faith) either way.


Now that we have that out of the way I want to point out again that the gospels are no eyewitness accounts and no one is sure who wrote them.

Wolf why wont you do your own searching about who wrote them and when they were written and stay away from the athiest sites to tell you about them.You have to look at other sources in order to form your own opinion (Isnt that what you athiests tell us to do when we are researching?) ..dont just listen to the athiests ..if they dont know God then they WILL LIE and decieve ....because they can ..heck no God is listening right and he wont punish them if he dont exist right > So they can really do whatever they want because the bible says their concience is seered .. .how will they know if they are lieng or not if they are not having their CONCIENCE pricked by GOD (Thats what the Holy Spirit does when he is in you) .....right is wrong and wrong is right in their world ..havent you seen that yet ? Everything is TWISTED in their world .up is down down is up .....and they are like cold dead men ....
Go to the places (Universities and Research sites) and read what people say who STUDY IT and RESEARCH the heck out of it ...to get your answers..
If you really want the truth ...if you dont then forget it .

reply to post by Simplynoone


Well there is a lot of range in atheism, it's not a solid position.

However you make a good point. Looking on wikipedia I find this best describes me. A nontheist, or more specifically "explicit atheism"

Explicit atheism is defined as "the absence of theistic belief due to a conscious rejection of it" (those who have thought about the existence of deities and have purposely decided against it).

My position stands as undecided until conclusive evidence is put forward.

At both of you:

It seems you haven't read my post on the other page, or you are tiptoeing around it.

reply to post by tgambill

 

Gotquestions.org:

GotQuestions.org is a volunteer ministry of dedicated and trained servants who have a desire to assist others in their understanding of God, Scripture, salvation, and other spiritual topics. We are Christian, Protestant, conservative, evangelical, fundamental, and non-denominational. We view ourselves as a para-church ministry, coming alongside the church to help people find answers to their spiritually related questions.

This is an apologetics website, they are fundamentals which means that they are unable to have an unbiased assessment. Their word is to be taken at a grain of salt, period. This is exactly the same thing we find for bibleprobe.org:

We are followers of the way Christ has declared we should go. Dedicated to studying the cornucopia of wisdom and knowledge that the Word of God has given to us through the Bible. We recognize the Bible as the final and only authority on the subject of our God and Father.

These people cannot think unbiased.



Now as for wikipedia, you haven't ever read the article. Have a look at this.

Scholarly opinion is evenly divided between those who accept and those who reject the traditional authorship of Luke/Acts. For Mark, Matthew and John there is far greater agreement that the traditional ascriptions are incorrect, and that the authors of these works are in fact unknown. Scholars are in broad agreement that Mark is the earliest gospel, and that Matthew and Luke rely on it for their narrative. All four Gospels are usually dated to a period after 70 AD, although a minority of conservative scholars continue to argue for earlier dates.

Wiki

Well I guess you are wrong then. No hard feelings.

From a one of my post on the previous page which I don't think you could have read.

[edit on 11/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Simplynoone

You have to look at other sources in order to form your own opinion (Isnt that what you athiests tell us to do when we are researching?) ..dont just listen to the athiests ..if they dont know God then they WILL LIE and decieve ....because they can ..heck no God is listening right and he wont punish them if he dont exist right > So they can really do whatever they want because the bible says their concience is seered ..

You are so deluded as to the mind of atheists aren't you. I can't believe the arrogance of people like you who some how think all atheists are in denial.

Atheist websites? That's what you think? How is wikipedia atheist?

[edit on 11/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by The Stand


Seems to me like this is speaking of ' Rape ' I also believe that it is Moses
that is speaking here and not God. Our God is an awesome God and He is
in NO WAY at all cruel. The Bible is the most amazing, wonderful book ever
written.

If you believe in Jesus as he says, then you will know that Jesus is the only way that God will hear your or my prayers. You are relating the New Age religion that is a counterfeit christianity.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6)

Romans 3:23, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." And also in Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."


Jesus said with all His authority, "I am the door of the sheep."

Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

"All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

"The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

(John 10:7-10)

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

"And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

( John 11:25-26)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

(Revelation 1:8)

Jesus said that He is the Almighty. From the Old Testament we read that He is the Almighty God. In the Old Testament God’s name is given as El Shaddai (Hebrew). God said to Abraham in Genesis 17:1, "When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless."

Yes, He is almighty, omniscient, omnipotent and self-sufficient. Jesus proved that He is the same God of Old Testament and that He is the Almighty God.

And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last."

"I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death."

(Revelation 1:17-18)

Jesus came from the lineage of David as prophets foretold in Isaiah 9:6-7,

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

"Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

(Isaiah 9:6-7)


After fifty days since Jesus left this world, when all the disciples and others were praying together the mighty out pouring of Holy Spirit came and filled that place (Acts 2:1-2) as promised by Prophet Joel:

"And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days."

(Joel 2:28-29),

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"

Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

(John 8:56-58)

"Before Abraham was, I AM" clarified that He was from the beginning and that He is the same God who has ability to redeem. He is the same God who created heaven and earth. He is the same God who walked among His people. He is the same God who was a friend of Abraham. He is the same God who was with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and all His prophets and His people. His name is Elohim – who was, and is and will be forever and forever.

If you Love and follow Jesus then you will know his words and his power. God is not the God of confusion.

2Thessalonians 2:9-12 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



reply to post by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS

reply to post by tgambill


Sorry, but you are wrong about Jesus being the only way in the way you presented it. You even quoted John 14:6, but read down further in that chapter. It specifically states otherwise. I know this to be true, because this is how I learned the truth. It was only after I realized the truth that I understood what Jesus was saying, which is also exactly what is said here.

When Jesus says that what you quoted in 6, he is saying the truth is the only way, thus why Jesus says he is the truth in the same exact line.

Entire chapter is great. John 14:20 is what happened to me when I first realized the truth. Exactly that. My first response was - I am god and I am arguing with myself. I just told my friend that out of nowhere and he just kind of laughed and nodded in agreement.

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

reply to post by tgambill


OI! Recognise my rebuttal to your claim that the gospels are written by eyewitnesses and by the people it says wrote them.

Last time you tiptoed around the issue.

I wasn't going to comment on this subject due to the fact that it is religion. But reading some of the responses I feel compelled to put my two cents in. I have not read either new or old testaments front to back, only passages/verses. I am a spiritual person and feel that it contradicts its self where it is composed by prophets or disciples.
To me the bible and or Gods message can be condensed down to a paragraph at most.

Do unto others, don't cheat, lie, steal, murder, judge not.

What more do we need to know ?