What if Obama is assassinated before inauguration?

I don't anticipate this but, if Obama were assassinated before inauguration do the rules for succession apply before taking office? Considering the electoral college doesn't vote until December and the results officially announced before congress in January, would electors be allowed to vote for Biden in Obamas place even though the people didn't elect Biden to be President?

To my knowledge, there is not Constitutional provision for this scenario.

reply to post by Wolf321


I have wondered the same thing. I kind of assumed it would go to Biden.

If Obama could not take office for any reason then it goes to the vice president elect. he would assume the office of president, then he would have to appoint someone as VP and congress would vote on that person.

We did elect a president already. As far as I can figure it would go to Biden.

However, if martial law was declared, then what?

The scarier part is that this is the first time we've had a black president. Just imagine the scenario this would create if it did happen. Indeed, it would become martial law and african americans would rebel, becoming the aggressors and the subject to martial law.

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
If Obama could not take office for any reason then it goes to the vice president elect. he would assume the office of president, then he would have to appoint someone as VP and congress would vote on that person.

Do you have some legal reference or precedent for this?

LBJ

(cough)

I mean Biden

Would probably be President

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
If Obama could not take office for any reason then it goes to the vice president elect. he would assume the office of president, then he would have to appoint someone as VP and congress would vote on that person.

Do you have some legal reference or precedent for this?

It's not going to go to McCain unless it gets turned over in the next day. The only plausible things that can happen before January 20th is have his citizenship challenged, he could be seen unfit to handle national security directives or Bush could enact National Security Directive 51 (Martial Law) and remain in power.

If we was assassinated the presidency would go to Biden, because he was already elected. The flip side is this would create a huge race war and possibly lead to FEMA death camps.

reply to post by 12.21.12


I'm not suggesting McCain would have a shot at that point. It's just as I am not aware of any laws governing that particular situation, I think it would it require a new election.

Has a situation like that ever occurred in another democratic country?

reply to post by Wolf321

sure do. its all in the constitution.

Article Two describes the presidency (the executive branch). The article establishes the manner of election and qualifications of the President, the oath to be affirmed and the powers and duties of the office. The President must be a natural born citizen of the United States, be at least 35 years old, and a resident of the United States for at least 14 years. It also provides for the office of Vice President, and specifies that the Vice President succeeds to the presidency if the President is removed, unable to discharge the powers and duties of office, dies while in office, or resigns. The original text ("the same shall devolve") leaves it unclear whether this succession was intended to be on an acting basis (merely taking on the powers of the office) or permanent (assuming the Presidency itself). After the death of William Henry Harrison, John Tyler set the precedent that the succession was permanent, and this was followed in practice; the 25th Amendment explicitly states that the Vice President becomes President in those cases. Article Two also provides for the impeachment and removal from office of all officers of the government.

Source

Twenty-fifth Amendment
Section 1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

source

hope that helps

reply to post by Mercenary2007


That doesn't address President and Vice President Elects. Nor does it address if they are considered elected before the electoral college votes.

The references only address once one holds the office of President.

We might end up with Biden, Pelosi '09. I really hope he doesn't get murdered - thats terrible to think. There is an outside chance that he might be forced to step down.

We already elected Obama/Biden, so Biden has already been elected. Thats the way it works. If there was a recount, which apparently there will not be it would have come up by now most likely, so I think it's safe to assume that the election will go to Obama Biden. Meaning that, if Obama was assassinated tomorrow, Bush would remain as president until January 20th, when Biden would be sworn in as president.

Heres a little inside info. The US attempted to launch a war against Iran on August 8 and Russia stopped the US and averted the Bush Administrations plans. So therefore, there original plan was to create war with Iran before the elections and declare martial law which would suspen elections. But that plan failed. Now they have to somehow start it before January 20 even though Russia gain access to their documents and plans on exposing the whole thing to the public, provided anything strange happens.

So they can attempt again and get suck dead in their tracks. Or they can assassinate Obama, which the GOP would hope to create a race war so they can establish Martial Law, either way on Jan. 20, Bush willl be gone as long as martial law is not established or any other attempts are made to get rid of Obama.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
LBJ

(cough)

I mean Biden

Would probably be President

lol.. i was thinking the same thing.

edit:double post

[edit on 11/5/2008 by Mercenary2007]

Originally posted by 12.21.12
We already elected Obama/Biden, so Biden has already been elected. Thats the way it works.

That is not how it works. That is where the question originates. The electoral college has not yet elected the next president. That will occur in December. Now, say Obama was killed before the electoral college meeting. Biden is not yet President, therefore the rules governing appointment of VP by congressional majority would not apply. Therefore, he could chose to be on the ballot with say, Hillary Clinton as his VP. The electoral college would then be voting on a whole different ball game than what the people voted for.

Heres a little inside info. The US attempted to launch a war against Iran on August 8 and Russia stopped the US and averted the Bush Administrations plans. So therefore, there original plan was to create war with Iran before the elections and declare martial law which would suspen elections.

Do you have some reference or proof of this allegation?

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
since obama is the president elect if he cannot hold office then it goes to the VP elect. It would be the same as if Obama was a sitting president and was killed or removed.

Granted this has never happened before so you know if it does happen their will be court challenges.

That is my point, it would be challenged, since there is nothing in the Constitution saying that President elects are treated the same for succession as a sitting President.

Originally posted by 12.21.12
We already elected Obama/Biden, so Biden has already been elected. Thats the way it works.



That is not how it works. That is where the question originates. The electoral college has not yet elected the next president. That will occur in December. Now, say Obama was killed before the electoral college meeting. Biden is not yet President, therefore the rules governing appointment of VP by congressional majority would not apply. Therefore, he could chose to be on the ballot with say, Hillary Clinton as his VP. The electoral college would then be voting on a whole different ball game than what the people voted for.

Thats a good point. If this happened it would trigger an outright revolution. Sort of reminds me of the Bailout Bill. I suppose this could be a possibility.

Do you have some reference or proof of this allegation?

Yes, I do have references. thanks for asking.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'
www.abovetopsecret.com...'
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

It is a very high possibility.
Unfortunately, because I respect and like Obama.
There is many people trying to prevent it though.
Would have to be a lucky shot.
But they do happen.

reply to post by Mercenary2007


I see what the OP is saying. The constitution is not really clear on the president/vice president elect in that situation. Neither have been sworn in. Isn't Bush still "technically" the President until Obama is sworn in? If not, then what exactly is Bush right now? I would say the constitution applies to Bush currently and not Obama until he is sworn in.

At least, that is how it reads to me.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Mercenary2007

 

I see what the OP is saying. The constitution is not really clear on the president/vice president elect in that situation. Neither have been sworn in. Isn't Bush still "technically" the President until Obama is sworn in? If not, then what exactly is Bush right now? I would say the constitution applies to Bush currently and not Obama until he is sworn in.

At least, that is how it reads to me.

i realize that the constitution is vague on this issue. But Since a president has been elected Bush's Term ends at noon on Jan. 20 2009.

That means the line of seccession will Follow the line of the president elect. So even if Obama hasn't taken the oath of office the next in line for POTUS would be the VP elect. he would assume office in Obama's place. he would then appoint his own Vp. as stated in the 25th admendment.

Like i said If this happened its a sure bet their would be court challenges. Because the constitution is so vague. BUt until the courts made a ruling Bush would leave office and Biden would step in.

Now it would have been a completely different ball game if it happened before the election.

Also even though the electoral College hasn't voted we know how they would vote by the popular vote. the popular vote is used to determine the electoral vote. so you look at the states Obama Won and he will get their electoral votes. so thats a non issue if he was killed before they voted. He is still the president elect.