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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Shenon
 


Thanks Shenon for proving my almost hard to prove point, at the end does anybody actually knows what in the heck are this bailout countries doing, or what in the heck is the IMF doing.

I guess no body knows for sure.




posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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It is known as "self contribution", very well known thing from socialist times.
Just sit and watch, but its for real



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by Shenon
 


Yeah, Italy paying for it's own enslavement by the IMF. Not very different from what has been happening with Canada, the US and the UK... giving hundreds of billions of $$$ to the IMF over the years... when we know for a fact that the IMF in a couple of months/years will take over those same countries.

All part of the plan of the elite... because remember, once you take a CENT from the IMF, the IMF controls your economy... what taxes you must have, what you must privatize (to sell cheap to their friends like Soros and the big banks), etc...

Greek Budget Deficit To Pass 10% Of GDP, Country Stops Most Cash Outlays

While European banks may or may not succeed in delaying the inevitable unwind of the Eurozone by a month or two, the European credit catastrophe is taking on a grotesque form, first in Greece, where following news that the budget deficit will soar past an unprecedented 10% of GDP, the Greek government has halted virtually all cash outflows.

Time to default. Would be nice. But of course that won't happen, the scum running Greece will keep them into debt slavery till there's a revolution.


Also a bunch of interesting numbers...

Japan 2012 budget :
Income : 42 trillion yen
Spending : 90 trillion yen.

And you thought that Greece was bad...



*FITCH: EFSF DEBT 'AAA' RATING DEPENDS ON FRANCE REMAINING 'AAA'

Yay. That means once France is downgraded, the EFSF plan blows up.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 09:46 AM
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How the hell can bank stocks come roaring back when the whole banking system is the same cesspool of debt and lies and cheats that it was yesterday?



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by GoalPoster
How the hell can bank stocks come roaring back when the whole banking system is the same cesspool of debt and lies and cheats that it was yesterday?

Hope and change.
And FED money.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo

Originally posted by GoalPoster
How the hell can bank stocks come roaring back when the whole banking system is the same cesspool of debt and lies and cheats that it was yesterday?

Hope and change.
And FED money.


where in the hell are the republicans in congress when the hammer needs to come down on banks and the investment houses? quit with the rant on Obama, and force the republicans to crack down with their own legislation against the big banks. i guess the democrats are the only ones with the balls to take them on. the republicans have their noses buried so deep up the behinds of wallstreet, that the only thing they can do is blame Obama... what a crock of right-wing crap.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Vitchilo is correct hope & change & the fed, what would the world do without the fed? I was shocked today regarding the housing start numbers this morning and then zoom the market shot up. The article talks of single family home starts but at the bottom notes multi-family permits i.e. apartments. I am not a genius but I do know that people can’t afford nor get loans to buy homes. This tells me that the housing situation isn’t better. In our house we talked of buying, fixing & renting. The people with money are cashing in and the numbers are looking good but it is basically all rental, soon only the rich will own homes.

My 70 year old Dad said the economy is always good during an election year when someone is looking for reelection. So we have gas now at $2.99 in places, unemployment down at 8%, housing is picking up and Europe is hanging on. Illusion or reality?

www.reuters.com... 1220



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 




where in the hell are the republicans in congress when the hammer needs to come down on banks and the investment houses?

You must be kidding.


quit with the rant on Obama

That wasn't a rant on Obama... HOPE is exactly why these banks shares are going up. Hope of ``meeting`` that will fix everything.


and force the republicans to crack down with their own legislation against the big banks.

Not gonna happen.


i guess the democrats are the only ones with the balls to take them on.

You are joking again... the bill they passed, the Dodd and Frank ``bank regulation bill`` is total bull. Any analyst will tell you that. Congress are too corrupt and too ignorant about the financial industry to craft a real good bill and the SEC too corrupt to enforce it once it passes. Hell MF Global head, Obama's economic adviser, Jon Corzine is still not in jail for stealing a few billion bucks!


the republicans have their noses buried so deep up the behinds of wallstreet, that the only thing they can do is blame Obama.

Which is the pot calling the kettle black really. Obama is a sellout to Wall Street too.

Michael Moore: "Wall Street Has Their Man And His Name Is Barack Obama"

So please stop with the ``democrats rule, republicans suck`` BS...
edit on 20-12-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Vitchilo

Originally posted by GoalPoster
How the hell can bank stocks come roaring back when the whole banking system is the same cesspool of debt and lies and cheats that it was yesterday?

Hope and change.
And FED money.


where in the hell are the republicans in congress when the hammer needs to come down on banks and the investment houses? quit with the rant on Obama, and force the republicans to crack down with their own legislation against the big banks. i guess the democrats are the only ones with the balls to take them on. the republicans have their noses buried so deep up the behinds of wallstreet, that the only thing they can do is blame Obama... what a crock of right-wing crap.


your wasting your time. The people on this thread are way above "this party vs that party" The goverment as a whole is corrupt. Im sorry my friend but your still dancing with the sheep if you buy into the party lines

(sweet, I have a silver boarder, i must be one of the cool kids now
)
edit on 20-12-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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Martin Armstrong


The U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) warrantless surveillance controversy
("Warrantless Wiretapping") concerns surveillance of persons within the United
States during the collection of foreign intelligence by the NSA as part of the war on
terror. These 19 guys and a camel have been used to take all our liberties away.
First was the "Warrantless Wiretapping" and then the kill switch for the internet,
and now it is the National Defense Authorization Act that will authorize the military to
attack citizens like the Occupy Wall Street crowd and anyone else that protests about the destruction of the
Constitution and eventually what happens when government encounters the “no bid day” and cannot sell its debt
any longer. They will need the troops to stem the civil unrest. They will never criminally charge Goldman Sachs for
(1) they did the reverse takeover of government and even ran Princeton Economics by court order, and (2) the
government needs them to sell their debt. Only Ron Paul has the courage to stand tall. The press tries so hard to
ignore him but the polls show he is the ONLY person who could beat
Obama, yet the Republicans ignore him. Obama talked a good game but did
nothing different from Bush. They are turning out the lights.
Ron Paul is our last hope before we go completely down the
rabbit hole. We have to turn politics on its head before it is too
late. It’s the debt and Goldman will fail keep it rolling forever.


www.inflateordie.com...



Also very interesting

www.enterprisecorruption.com...



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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From London - a reiteration on a couple of fundamental points I referenced in my previous post > Namely, a marked divergence in the physical POG against the paper market, and the acquisition of physical mine off-take by aggressive buyers of size. In sharp contrast to the manipulated price-discovery mechanism on the COMEX, Asian & ME sovereigns are rumored to be bidding as high as $1900oz for physical in off-exchange transactions.

*Whereas shares in the ETFs (GLD/SLV) are not redeemable in physical bullion by the average retail investor, major shareholders can take delivery through Authorized Participants (broker dealers) via the ETF Creation/Redemption Process.


December 20, 2011

London Trader - We are Witnessing a Historic Bottom in Gold

With many investors worried the price of gold could head lower, today King World News interviewed the “London Trader” to get his take on the gold market. The source stated, “The Chinese have continued to take delivery of both physical gold and silver directly from the ETF’s GLD and SLV. They are also going directly to producers. Entities are bypassing the COMEX altogether and going straight to gold mining companies. Every single month producers have a certain amount of gold and silver they sell. Normally they sell it to the bullion banks and the bullion banks, of course, leverage this gold and sell up to 100 times that in paper markets to control prices.”

Interestingly, so many people are bearish on gold right now and looking for a collapse in the price of gold. They don’t understand what is happening in the physical market. The bullish fundamentals I just described to you have enormous implications.

We are making a historic bottom right now. The paper gold, or virtual gold market, has diverged so far from the physical market that it’s no longer a credible marketplace. That’s the key thing that came out of a very important meeting I was in yesterday where we had some serious players. The people I was meeting with are all on the buy side and have been since the lows last week. - Full Text


I don't expect to see a clear technical resolution until traders return from the holidays, but the sentiment indicators are at historic lows and that's typically when a market reverses > leaving the bears scampering to cover.

GL ATS



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 07:40 PM
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See . . .this whole 'paper gold' thing is just a farce. As I 've posted before, we weren't happy with paper currency that isn't worth a good arse wipe so we've turned to gold and 'leveraged' it 100 times against the real physical stuff becaues of sheer friggin' greed. It is clear that this 'greed' has infested every corner of our existence, like a bad case of pennicilin-resistent clap.

Every day, I find another reason to stock up on ammo and food, then wait for the worst.

Sheesh.

Merry friggin' Christmas, folks.

Merry friggin' Christmas



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 05:26 AM
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Italian GDP Contracts, Signaling New Recession


The Italian economy contracted in the third quarter, signaling the country may have entered its fifth recession since 2001 as the government adopts new austerity measures that will further weigh on growth.

Gross domestic product declined 0.2 percent from the second quarter, when it expanded 0.3 percent, national statistics institute Istat said in Rome today. It was the first contraction since the final three months of 2009 and matched the median forecast in a survey of 23 economists by Bloomberg News.

Consumer spending declined 0.2 percent from the second quarter, with investment contracting 0.6 percent. Exports grew 1.6 percent in the quarter, while imports fell 1.1 percent.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 06:22 AM
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Q. How do you fill a bottomless hole?

A. You start by chucking a few hundred billion at it...


Huge demand for ECB's three-year loans



Eurozone banks have rushed to take out cheap three-year loans offered by the European Central Bank, borrowing 489bn euros ($643bn; £375bn).

The central bank had hoped to lend up to 450bn euros to stop another credit crunch crippling the banking system.

When the plan was announced, French President Nicholas Sarkozy said banks could use the money to invest in eurozone sovereign debt.

However, analysts were uncertain if banks will use the money in this way.

"The very heavy take-up of the ECB's three-year long-term refinancing operation (LTRO) provides some encouragement that banks' liquidity needs are being amply met," said Jonathon Loynes, Chief European Economist at Capital Economics.

"But while this might help to address recent signs of renewed tensions in credit markets and support bank lending, we remain sceptical of the idea that the operation will ease the sovereign debt crisis too as banks use the funds to purchase large volumes of peripheral government bonds."

This was the European Central Bank's first offer of three-year loans and although the offer was seen as a success, its impact on the eurozone economy is still unsure...

Whole article

Here's the conclusion:


...There are hopes that the banks taking the loans from the ECB at low interest rates will then buy sovereign bonds from countries such as Italy and Spain which offer a much higher yield, dubbed Sarkozy trade after the French president's encouragement for banks to do this.


So banks that are in crisis are expected to take life-line cheap loans and throw them at Italian & Spanish bonds? Slot machines might be a better bet. You have to wonder whether CEOs could leave themselves liable to prosecution for gross mismanagement / negligence. Of course they could always try a novel line of defence: "The President of France said it was a good idea!"



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 09:40 AM
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Existing-home sales downwardly revised 14%



www.marketwatch.com...


WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- An average of 14% fewer existing homes were sold annually between 2007 and 2010, according to revisions reported Wednesday by the National Association of Realtors, pointing to a housing market that was even weaker than previously believed. During the revision's time period, there were average annual sales of about 4.42 million existing homes, compared with prior estimates of about 5.16 million. NAR revised the data to correct for some sampling and data-reporting problems. Going forward NAR will annually re-benchmark data.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


Geez . . . this would appear on the surface that the ECB is overstepping its mandate.


In U.S. style central banking, liquidity is furnished to the economy primarily through the purchase of Treasury bonds by the Federal Reserve Bank. The Eurosystem uses a different method. There are about 1500 eligible banks which may bid for short term repo contracts of two weeks to three months duration.

The banks in effect borrow cash and must pay it back; the short durations allow interest rates to be adjusted continually. When the repo notes come due the participating banks bid again. An increase in the quantity of notes offered at auction allows an increase in liquidity in the economy. A decrease has the contrary effect. The contracts are carried on the asset side of the European Central Bank's balance sheet and the resulting deposits in member banks are carried as a liability. In lay terms, the liability of the central bank is money, and an increase in deposits in member banks, carried as a liability by the central bank, means that more money has been put into the economy.


As you can see, they define short-term as two weeks to three months in duration. Three years clearly eclipses that . . . are they making up the rules as they go along?

Rhetorical question . . . .

The laws governing this movement of money via the loan process also stipulates the banks need colateral to back what hey borrow.


All lending to credit institutions must be collateralised as required by Article 18 of the Statute of the ESCB.


Source

Seems like they're further bastardizing the system to meet their needs . . . or should I say to meet their greeds.

And it seems waaaaaay to closely linked for the ECB to state they're not buying soverign bonds, but they'll lend money under loose and fast rules to the banking system to buy those same bonds that, by general account are secure as a candy counter at an unattended corner store.

We get the news that the housing sales numbers were further fudged during the height of the last 'crisis'.


In 2007, there were actually just 5.04 million existing home sales, 11% less than the 5.65 million originally reported. Even worse were 2008 and 2009, when there were 16% fewer sales than originally reported. Sales in 2010 were 15% lower


Liar Liar economy on fire . . . .

Now, yesterday, the market was up on good news from Europe and 'better than expected' housing numbers. Today the market is starting on the downside because of worse than reported housing numbers and the exact same news out of Europe.

Tomorrow, the market will be up again because a three headed alien dressed in leather chaps, a feather boa and pointy Madonna bra dropped from the Planet Playtex and gave Barak Obama a hickie on his arse, all as filmed by a latex-clad ball-gagged Newt Gingrich.

Funny thing, at this point, I'd probably have an easier time believing that than what's being cranked out lately.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by wisdomnotemotion
 


Finally SOME truth in the real estate market...(because let's be real, they are probably still lying) next to be revised : GDP and unemployment numbers...

GDP probably went down 10% in 2009...

And unemployment is more at 15-20% than 8%. (Shadowstats saying 23-24% unemployment)

The end is neaaaaaaaaaaaaar :
Dr. Strangelove In Europe (Did Kong Just Mount The Bomb?)

You have to wonder.

It was expected that the ECB's newly-minted three-year facility would put about €400 billion into the market this morning. Instead, it was somewhere around €600 billion, expanding the ECB's balance sheet by a literal 20% overnight.

Essentially every bank of consequence in the ECB clamored to the ECB's window to borrow the cheap money, with Draghi egging everyone on. This, you would think, would be cause for an extension of yesterday's rally, since expansion of borrowing is a good thing, right?

Not so fast.

The market appears to have discerned that the European area banks have literally pulled the pin on a financial doomsday trade.

Yesterday European spreads screamed inward as "someone" was buying the hell out of European debt. Today we learned who it was -- everyone.

Of course nobody "officially" can be told what to use the money for, but it doesn't really matter. What we have happening here is that there's little question that adding more than €500 billion in additional leverage to the European system is a "good thing" -- that's definitely bad.

Many people in the financial community expected that it would be several days or week before the market figured it out. Instead people started to noodle on this literally within minutes and it appears they also immediately came to their senses as to the wisdom (or lack thereof) of what the ECB has just done.

There's one way to think of this that parallels our experience here in the US -- think of this as the Lehman Trade, or the MF Global Trade, or if you prefer the Fannie and Freddie trade. The latter is probably more-appropriate, given that there are a number of banks over in the Euro Zone, including some really big ones, with leverage ratios approaching (or even exceeding!) 60:1. If this trade "works" and nobody loses more than 2% or so you make more money than you ever have before and everyone gets really big bonuses!

If it fails, well, there's no Euro, there's no bank, the governments involved probably collapse and there's likely to be a war, so who gives a damn -- go for it!

Please, let's have a downgrade before Christmas so this all BLOWS UP! Please Santa?

edit on 21-12-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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Yeah . . . lets buy Italian bonds . . . .



•Italy is Insolvent: The International Monetary Fund may be forced to classify Italy as insolvent during the first half of 2012… IMF economists described a debt-to-GDP ratio of 120 percent as “the maximum level considered sustainable for a market access country” (BBG)


Source



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


I think we are at the point, and S&P knows it, that if they downgrade any more Euro states, its the end of the euro. So I think S&P is going to sit on its butt and keep the down grade button covered as long as possible. Who would want to be blamed for the fall of world as we know it.



posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Game over before Christmas? Please please please!


EFSF LENDING CAPACITY MAY DROP TO EU293 BLN, CULLINAN SAYS
EURO RESCUE FUND'S CAPACITY MAY FALL BY A THIRD, CULLINAN SAYS
EURO RESCUE FUND MAY SHRINK ON FRANCE DOWNGRADE, CULLINAN SAYS
S&P SOVEREIGN RATINGS DIRECTOR CULLINAN COMMENTS IN E-MAIL



Selloff in US 20+ years treasuries... SP might surprise everyone and downgrade the USA instead of/and Europe... which would be real fun to watch.

And Portugal :

Portugal's Treasury and Government Debt Agency, IGCP, said Friday it decided not to proceed with the three-month Treasury bill auction scheduled for Dec. 21.


edit on 21-12-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



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