The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by pause4thought


In sane times, this would be a huge deal....not so anymore, it seems.

Ho Hum...

Anyway, got a new batch of soap ready to go...

reply to post by pause4thought


Hiya Pause,

That is a VERY IMPORTANT TICKER!

Chris Martenson was the one who caught it.

In case some folks don't know who Chris is, he's the guy who did the Chrash Course videos.

Nutshell version, that treasury sale last week, the 7 yr, that looked so good after the "FAIL" of the 5 yr the day before...

Well the FED bought 47% of that issue & didn't do it openly, they tried to hide it from both the US public & the rest of the world.

This really is a "NOT GOOD" scenario

reply to post by RolandBrichter


It's understandable that people acquire a sort of 'shock fatigue'.

But what must be going on inside the heads of those in the know? Do they have some kind of a Madoff-esque nonchalance, or are they planning to leave the country?

You have to wonder.




[edit to add:]

reply to post by redhatty


What do you say happens to the markets tomorrow?

!



[edit on 6/8/09 by pause4thought]

reply to post by pause4thought


What is wrong with the people running the show is that they are numb, they see what is coming down the pike and they only know how to do one thing, rob rape and pillage.

Or they don't really care and have a Global Express fueled and ready to go wheels up within 20 minutes at all times.

Who knows what is going on, all I know is that nothing what it seems.

reply to post by cpdaman

are the banks using the excess reserves to highly leverage their trading desks at JPM ,GS, MS with UNLIMITED LIQUIDITY and then using there super duper trading computers to reap profits as well as buy just prior to consumers orders.....they could do this LIKE A Plunge Protection Team on steroids.

I would say less than 9 months ago the banks were accepting huge windfall bailouts from the Federal Government to stay afloat. We can only assume the banks had no, or near no available resources to even operate, let alone spend enormous sums speculating in the equity markets..

Flash forward to March, not long after taking these huge bail outs .. the banks suddenly start making huge profits on their investment banking arms .. the returns from market performance were outstanding .. everyone clapped and cheered and said hurray the economy is recovering! Most banks have since re-paid some or all of the bail out funds, and are still making these insane profits. Goldman Sachs went from needing $12 billion dollars in bail out funds to making $100 million dollars a day with their arbitrage trading systems .. paying back the bail out and making historic profit after historic profit.

Meanwhile, loan applications are at historic lows, aside from loan modification, there is little activity. Credit card lines are still decreasing. Personal loans are laughable. Home sales continue poor performance.

Common sense, in my opinion, tells us how the money was used.

I mean hell some of these "banks" like Goldman Sachs are not even Banks.. so what did they need the money for? .. Their specialty is Capital Investments and managing mergers...

do you have an opinion on this........i mean it could be done under the guise of national security.......hell i would not even be that ticked off should the market be manipulated up......so long as they don't try and Short sell the hell out of it later in the year

I agree 100% .. with everything you have said thus far. Saving the banks WAS a matter of National Security.. the entire system was very close to complete collapse. those that say it's not possible well guess what: It almost happened. However I feel very certain that the banks WILL short, dump and run out of these markets eventually.. The markets cannot go up indefinitely on bad economic news.. Already our foreign investors are getting the picture.. It's not a matter of if. Only a matter of When.

american's would be happy to recover some of their 401k money wether or not bankers make money in the process and manipulate the market

Except that we must assume that such extraordinary inflation of capital in such a short amount of time WILL eventually cause inflation .. The inflation will be relative to the proportion of amount of cash and capital injected into the system. Even if the American people recovered 100% of everything they lost since November 2007 .. is it worth the same amount? imo, no, not at all .. and it will be worth even less in the near future.. the long term implications will be far reaching.

reply to post by pause4thought


Tomorrow?? Probably nothing of consequence.

All this chicanery falls under the guise of QE, the fugly part is that the FED isn't being honest with us or the other CBs in the game. Legally, the FED could havew bought the T's right at the auction, but they didn't, they convinced PDs to buy at auction - probably with the guarantee that they would but back (about 50%) the issue within a week.

All the big player countries are doing QE, China, UK, etc. But at lest they are open and honest (as far as we know) about it.

The "big picture" here is this. Other CBs (read: China) are NOT buying our debt anymore, but the FED is trying to fool the American Public - probably starting with CONgress on down to us - that everything is fine and dandy, we can keep pulling forward the debt & all will be fine.

Well it's NOT fine. Traders have noticed that money is coming out of nowhere to buy stocks, commodities, etc & everyone has been wondering where it's coming from, well now we know - the FED is monetizing the debt to artificially prop the markets through the PDs

This auction mentioned in the Ticker & at Chris Martenson's site, in effect gave PDs $7 BILLION to prop the markets with, at the same time, the FED is (surreptitiously) propping up the Treasury Market.

Now that this has come to light (and believe me, between KD's & Chris' site, A TON of people have been made aware - including CONgress) I expect the FED to announce that it will extend QE, which MAY keep things going for a bit longer, there's no real telling.

If another major country STOPS their QE, and we are in a position where we can't, then we see a HUGE IMPLOSION.

But for right now, I would wait to see how the world reacts NEXT WEEK to the revelation that the FED is playing a competitive game of "HIDE THE SAUSAGE"

I just thought about something, with the Fed pumping and manipulating the markets shouldn't there be some discrepancies somewhere as in the numbers just aren't right?

There is noway the Fed can prop everything up to make it look like a real rally could they? There has to be some indicators somewhere that prove it is fake.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


Fed propped the markets indirectly through it's Member Banks.. JPM, Citi, Goldman, these are the companies leveraging the markets, with funds from the FED and Treasury.

As to whether or not that was the Feds intention I cannot say .. I doubt that it was .. perhaps more likely the situation has run away from them. Who knows though.

[edit on 8/6/2009 by Rockpuck]

reply to post by redhatty


I had the same thought this morning when the Bank of England announced to the kiddies that they were getting three more months of rationed QE. The US investors will feel left out if news of this hidden QE doesn't get leaked into the MSM somehow.

Me thinks a larger QE2 MSM campaign complete with marching bands and Obama, might shoot the stock markets to the moon where they would be at risk of a crash later in the cycle. Thanks for explaining!

[edit on 6-8-2009 by fromunclexcommunicate]

reply to post by Rockpuck


So all bases would be covered because they do it day in day out.

In my amateur opinion I would say it ran away from them. Because I would imagine the thing on all these banks minds is the absolute deep water they are in with CDO's and CDS's.

I don't think these big banks are exactly anybody's best fiends more looking out for themselves. Throw anybody under the bus when that day comes.

I'm sure people on here haven't forgotten, but there is still 10's to 100's of trillions in CDO's and CDS's still floating around out there.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


One mistake we often make is assuming bank collaborate with each other in these devious plans.. But as we look at the before and after there was a lot of cannibalism in the financial sector... Kinda hard to pull off the biggest heist in history if you cannot be sure if the bank next door is going to have you for breakfast the following morning. So I am with you, the bailouts were intended for one purpose, used for another, and the whole thing has once again run away from regulators.

reply to post by redhatty


The FED buying the treasuries then hailing it a success without disclosing who bought what.. seems self destructive and desperate. If a few independent economist can determine the Fed bought the Tbills.. I think it's safe to say our Chinese and Japanese investors have also long since known who was behind it.. We know they hate us monetizing the debt, what reason do they have to come to the next auction after seeing our response?

Originally posted by redhatty

All the big player countries are doing QE, China, UK, etc. But at lest they are open and honest (as far as we know) about it.

If another major country STOPS their QE, and we are in a position where we can't, then we see a HUGE IMPLOSION.

But for right now, I would wait to see how the world reacts NEXT WEEK to the revelation that the FED is playing a competitive game of "HIDE THE SAUSAGE"

Yes, yes, and yes....

It's a global game of musical chairs, if they can jump start their respective economies enough, another chair is added, and they keep on dancing.

China is almost ready to sit down while the music is still playing. Sure it's against the rules, but they really, REALLY want a change in reserve currencies, and may ruin the party to get it.

Originally posted by RolandBrichter

China is almost ready to sit down while the music is still playing. Sure it's against the rules, but they really, REALLY want a change in reserve currencies, and may ruin the party to get it.

Why would China crash the party that it and the U.S. organized? If you think China doesn't have fun at the party then look around in the corner...China isn't sitting in the corner for nothing. They're snorting speed to keep up.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
... We know they hate us monetizing the debt, what reason do they have to come to the next auction after seeing our response?

Because they are all playing the same game. China is literally printing their QE (and buying up commodities), UK is playing QE with Gilt buy backs, it's, as I said, a competitive game going on.

The country that can quit playing first will be the winner

I don't see that being us.

Remember, China is the one pushing to un-peg from the dollar & go to a basket of currencies!!!

Originally posted by fromunclexcommunicate
Here in the US the best way I can describe it is "MAD MAX" it almost seems that this country would rather become destitute then make changes like using public transportation.

The infrastructure, as they call it, undergone heavy reorientation on individual transportation back in 1950s. The system of freeways was built for cars, and the municipal public transportation wasn't expanding at the rate it used to. And so it's not easy to use it effectively -- it takes lots of time to get anywhere. The local governments in larger cities are trying to improve the public transportation, but the distant suburbs could be built, coz the freeways got the folks downtown quick. These days, freeways are clogged and people prefer to spend their commute time in the privacy of their cars -- it's an important psychological upper. Now, kids are heading for college, mortgage is merciless, and your job is 40 miles away and hard to quit, coz it pays for all of that. You won't find job like that within 10 miles where you live -- the same story told million of times.

It's just piling up -- one problem after another. And they are interconnected for a good measure.

More "Green Shots"

Fannie Mae draws on U.S. support after $14.8 billion loss
www.reuters.com...

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Fannie Mae, the largest provider of U.S. home mortgage funding, on Thursday reported a $14.8 billion quarterly net loss that it said would force it to go to the U.S. Treasury trough a third time for money to stay in business.

The company noted a "significant uncertainty" of its long-term financial health in reporting its eighth consecutive quarterly loss, which illustrates its struggle to make money in the face of rising defaults and pressure to do more to stabilize the housing market.

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
More "Green Shots"

Fannie Mae draws on U.S. support after $14.8 billion loss
www.reuters.com...

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Fannie Mae, the largest provider of U.S. home mortgage funding, on Thursday reported a $14.8 billion quarterly net loss that it said would force it to go to the U.S. Treasury trough a third time for money to stay in business.

At least Fannie Mae knows by now how to get to the Treasury, so that's spares a few billion bucks on showing her how to get there.

^AORD All Ordinaries 4,287.70 1:32AM ET Down 43.30 (1.00%)
^SSEC Shanghai Composite 3,307.84 1:37AM ET Down 48.49 (1.44%)
^HSI Hang Seng 20,565.46 1:37AM ET Down 333.78 (1.60%)
^BSESN BSE 30 15,410.14 1:42AM ET Down 103.89 (0.67%)
^JKSE Jakarta Composite 2,349.21 12:29AM ET Down 10.76 (0.46%)
^KLSE KLSE Composite 1,183.97 Aug 6 Up 4.48 (0.38%)
^N225 Nikkei 225 10,329.97 1:32AM ET Down 58.12 (0.56%)
^NZ50 NZSE 50 3,069.00 1:31AM ET Up 12.85 (0.42%)
^STI Straits Times 2,565.82 1:52AM ET Down 35.68 (1.37%)
^KS11 Seoul Composite 1,570.70 1:32AM ET Up 5.66 (0.36%)
^TWII Taiwan Weighted 6,868.65 Aug 6 Up 20.41 (0.30%)

DJIA FV Futures 9216.26 9227.0 10.74

Europe Factors-Shares set to fall; all eyes on U.S. jobs
www.reuters.com...

Citigroup Takes U.S. Stock Trading to New Levels: Chart of Day
www.bloomberg.com...

Aug. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Citigroup Inc., propped up by government aid after descending into the ranks of corporate basket cases, is rewriting the record books for trading in a U.S. stock.

The CHART OF THE DAY shows all the record-setting days since 2000, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The latest one was yesterday, when Citigroup became the first stock listed on U.S. exchanges to exceed 2 billion shares in one day.

Citigroup shattered its own record. The 2.67 billion shares that changed hands yesterday was 43 percent higher than the mark set on Feb. 27, when the federal government agreed to its third bailout attempt at the bank since October.

Tudor Investment Calls Stock Gain a Bear-Market Rally (Update2)
www.bloomberg.com...

BOJ Said to See Deflation Stretching Through 2011 (Update1)
www.bloomberg.com...

Aug. 6 (Bloomberg) -- The Bank of Japan will probably forecast that declines in consumer prices will extend into 2011 even as the economy recovers, according to two people familiar with the matter.

The estimate would be included in policy makers’ first economic projections for the financial year ending March 2012, scheduled for release in October, said the people, who declined to be identified ahead of the report. Central bankers have already predicted prices will fall 1.3 percent in the current year and 1 percent in fiscal 2010.

Prospects for a third year of deflation make it likely Bank of Japan Governor Masaaki Shirakawa and his colleagues will keep interest rates near zero through next year, analysts said. It would also erode profits at companies such as Aeon Co., Japan’s second-largest retailer, which has been forced to offer discounts to attract consumers whose wages are tumbling.

“The Bank of Japan will hold the key rate at 0.1 percent at least through March 2011 to stop deflation from becoming deeply entrenched,” said Jun Ishii, chief fixed-income strategist at Mitsubishi UFJ Securities Co. in Tokyo. “The central bank will probably consider further policy-easing action” should the risk of spiraling deflation mount, he also said.

Orient Overseas Posts First Loss in Decade as Container Rates, Trade Slump
www.bloomberg.com...

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Rockpuck

These are the pearls decorating the times of present:

Aug. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Congress sent President Barack Obama an emergency measure giving $2 billion to the “cash for clunkers” discount program, which lawmakers said was helping ailing automakers and the U.S. economy.

www.bloomberg.com...

Why would this environmentally-oriented idea be called "an emergency measure?"

I guess if Obama has been grasping for air lately, the reason wasn't surely the high level of smog measured in the West Wing.

I believe that the MSM should learn some tricks from journalism practiced in former communist countries, if they want succeed in obscuring the sh*tload of trouble forming on the horizon.

What's going on, Rockpuck? Ain't that all crazy?