15 Year Old Girl Charged as Sex Offender

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


were going round in circles


they mentioned in the article;

School officials have reported to me that after my presentation at her school they specifically confronted this girl regarding concerns they had and they specifically warned her to take heed of the message she heard from my presentation," Oswalt wrote in the release. "Thus, this girl got a personal face-to-face warning of the consequences of this behavior."

thats the point i was making - the school knew something was `up` and specifically warned the girl to pay attenion to the lecture - the same lecture that was given to all the schools by Ken Oswalt;

as for 1 or more offences - it doesn`t mention that - what it mentions is more than 1 photograph , hence the plural in the report - again that was my point , that there was more than 1 photograph, not when or where but the number.


btw the post by maria_stardust actually is an excellent support for what im trying to say


the mod has given a friendly reminder of the rules - whether someone has broken them or not we have had that reminder - next time someone will get a warning;


compare this to the case in question - after being told `the rules` the girl in question was given a friendly warning over them - and later she was arrested and charged for ignoring that warning.

granted we might not be arrested for breaking ATS rules , but can you see the compariosn?

reply to post by Harlequin


I see the comparison yes.

I do not agree that her offense is somehow 'worse' because she was warned by the school prior.

For the very fact that I do not agree that the offense is an 'offense' to begin with. At least, not in the sense that it is child pornography.

I believe the offense is simply that she had nude pics at school, which is inappropriate for the school environment.

Therefore haven been warned once before being caught, the punishment from the school should be worsened in accordance to that.

However, this should have no bearing on her charges, because she should not have those charges to begin with.

*also interesting to consider is that if she was warned before, but not caught, what does that actually entail? Did they see it happen before? Or was it just rumor? How did they know she did it before? Did a teacher or admin view the pics (child porn apparently!) prior but not report it!? If not, then I guess it was just rumor or speculation.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

I wish I could have read the entire thread, butjust the first and last several pages stir my ire...

Look, people. Every human being has a right to their own bodies. She took pictures of herself.

You can bandy about her self esteem, and how tragic and sad it is that she'd "EXPLOIT" herself in such a manner. If you REALLY think this way, you should be ashamed of looking at your body naked in a mirror.

What about nudists with cameras? They're hell bent on making child pornography I'm sure.

Anyone should have the god-given right to take images of themselves. And if you actually feel otherwise, I have to wonder at exactly WHY that is.

Anyone should also have the right to distribute images of THEMSELVES to whoever they wish and please. Why SHOULDN'T they? What, because it would contribute to the Child Porn? Seriously?

I think some people are afraid of condoning this because it would take away their moral high horse about pedophiles HAVING to harm children to get their porn or whatnot.

My opinion on this whole topic is this; if nobody whatsoever was harmed in the creation of the images, it should be legal. Period. Why should it be illegal? The law is meant to protect society and individuals from harm. In this instance it is doing the opposite.

And what if this girl turns out to be the high school slut, Peggy Bundy before Al, is this now supposed to be criminal behavior? She is an orphan looking for legitimacy. Labeling her as a criminal isn't going to help her or society.

I guess that in Saudi Arabia, they would have already stoned her to death, or what ever they do these days. Here, they want to slowly destroy her life, so that it is much more painful.

Hold on... So let me just understand something b/c I'm so confused.

I comprehend the severity of holding images of nude "children" - But, what? So, if this chick took pics of herself nude, say for instance just to maybe "experiement" w/ the fact she's taking pics of herself nude and she was caught with them... She's to be prosecuted b/c they're photos of a minor? Let's not forget the fact it's pics of HERSELF right?

Would the same infractions occur if she was to be (And PLEASE excuse how pervy this might sound) Standing infront of her mirror nude and 'playfully' talking to herself? I know when I was younger I used to make fun of myself when walking past my bedroom mirror after showering, it happens but would she be done for 'cohersing a minor'? LMFAO

It's ridiculous... Now, we also don't know how many 'other minors' she sent the pics out to, could have been her bf, whose friend saw it and fwded it to other people, could have been several guys in her school/neighborhood she had a thing for.

I might be reaching w/ the big stick on some of those nonsensical questions/comments but the fact remains...

A: Yes, she's a kid. Therefore those images are deemed "illegal" but

B: They're images of HERSELF F.C.O.L!

So parents are allowed to take pictures and videos of their kids (Ranging from toddlers to 12-13yr olds) in the bathtub and post them on places like photobucket (Believe me it happens it's sickening some of the stuff your kids can accidentally come across on PB, let alone when they google certain words) - And get away w/ it? - Yet this girl's gonna get chucked on a S.O.R for TEN BLOODY YEARS, just because she took photos of herself?

Originally posted by A55A551N
So parents are allowed to take pictures and videos of their kids (Ranging from toddlers to 12-13yr olds) in the bathtub and post them on places like photobucket (Believe me it happens it's sickening some of the stuff your kids can accidentally come across on PB, let alone when they google certain words) - And get away w/ it? - Yet this girl's gonna get chucked on a S.O.R for TEN BLOODY YEARS, just because she took photos of herself?

Correct.

That is basically what is happening

Also, don't forget that all the adults, the officials who viewed these photos (deemed child porn) and are not going to experience any ramifications for viewing them, simply because of their respective authoritative positions. Apparently it's okay for them too look but not her boyfriend

You have to abandon logic and fairness to make sense of this madness. Let me know if you are able to because I am struggling here..

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Considering that whatukno persisted in depicting anyone who did not agree with his view as being amoral and irresponsible by choosing to deal with this in an instructive parenting way, rather than his fascist wish to persecute a teenager for attempting to turn her boyfriend on with a picture, I found this to be revealing of his basic attitude towards women:
here
His first post on this page fully describes what he thinks about women, and it also in my opinion explains the legal witch hunt that is going on, as a nwo fascist attempt to criminalize female sexuality. Obviously if tried as a child she cannot be both the victim and the perpetrator of the crime, and if tried as an adult, this isn't a crime. If tried as an adult at 15, for being in possession of a picture of herself defined as a child at 15, it is legally inconsistent and therefore an obvious misuse of law in an attempt to send women back to whore/madonna syndrome days of being property.

Originally posted by mystiq
His first post on this page fully describes what he thinks about women, and it also in my opinion explains the legal witch hunt that is going on, as a nwo fascist attempt to criminalize female sexuality. Obviously if tried as a child she cannot be both the victim and the perpetrator of the crime, and if tried as an adult, this isn't a crime. If tried as an adult at 15, for being in possession of a picture of herself defined as a child at 15, it is legally inconsistent and therefore an obvious misuse of law in an attempt to send women back to whore/madonna syndrome days of being property.

I think often when you examine men, heck even some older women, in threads like this you get a clear sense of their feelings toward toady’s young women by the language they use, like “slut” or “whore”. Since the situation clearly does not warrant such graphic details or rage filled slander you can tell they are projecting an anger they feel toward young women of today’s society and making it part of the issue.

I beleive we should found out her situation and take her phone away from her. Yes she is a kid but she needs to get some sort of punishment. Her parents should get a parenting class for allowing there child to be able to do this. I'm sorry kids should need cell for emergancy only. If they need a ride from school or the game or other school function and if they get a phone they shoul dget the bare minimum phone no bells and whistles.

reply to post by SantaClaus


How can you agree to such charges....

let me tell you something. Every day Americans are exposed to sexual ads and many other crap like tv shows and movies always showing sexual contact to an extent.

I will have to say also the gov encourages sexual behavior the reason I say this is because why the heck do we need to have sex education so many times???

I had sex ed in 5th grade and then again in middle school in health class and then again in high school in health class and now again in college for health class.

They tell you to wear protection and don't be ashamed of your body and sexuality since it's normal.

Today I am just saying kids are the number one target on confusion. I bet kids think these actions are ok.

Now for us to go and screw up their life for not knowing what they did wrong and have them in a slammer for 10 years and label them for good as a sex predictor. ..

I am saying that the U.S is heavily regulated too much. This is why our jail cells are full and we have the highest inmate's rate in the world.

The reason why is that our courth system is a joke. The judges only go by the laws they don't have a brain for themselves.

Now according to the law yes this girl supposed to face jail time. This is why we have the highest jail rate and the reason for this is that people that are judges have no brains they can't think for themselves and are also under pressure.

I have heard in Germany and many other countries their court system is better they know when a person is lieing or not and don't go by the laws strictly they mostly look at the situation and decide if someone was purposely breaking the laws.

Now in America if you didn't know of any law you broke or didn't know their was such a law the judge would just tell you well ignorance of the law dosen't make it ok.

Why???? I say why???? I mean their is soo much laws that even lawyers don't know most of it. what they do is when you hire a lawyer they will look at your situation and then go to a law libary that holds offical laws and do research on the laws.

So how is it that we the people need to be mind readers on all the laws possible??

Does this mean as americans we should have 2 professions??? be a lawyer and also pick what ever other field we like???

I am saying their are so much laws that no one on earth can master every law that has been written.

So how is not knowing what laws are out their not a exuse.

I mean if the GOV have at least a website that list all laws on it where everyone has access to every single law then I would say that would be great.

I mean they purposly don't make it easy for you to know every law and wherer to go finding these laws.

I have heard in some state that on sunday if you are smiling you can ger arrested for a day in jail.

because some tragic thing happended on sunday that now it is a state law that noone can be happy on sunday.

it was on riples belive it or not.

First off, how should you be punished if you do nothing wrong? This was a young person, doing what people do, exploring themselves and their world, and sexuality is a wonderful part of that. Secondly, most people have no idea what pedophilia is. Pedophilia, is attraction to children, and by children, it means the unmature physical form. this is the medical definition of child not the legal, and pedophilia is a medical diagnosis, so once the person has gone through puberty its no longer pedophilia. Through all of human history whether you believe it is 5000 years or 500000 years, the majority of people started having sex and children at the age of puberty, when their first menses start, so to claim that all of our ancestors were sick perverts is a pretty strange idea. Even today many cultures begin engaging in sexual acts at this time, and thats a lot of people, africans, south americans, etc, and to claim that they are all wrong and you are right is purely nationalism. Not to say that i am attracted to women younger than me, but to point to those who are and classify them as a group as "sick, perverts", etc is pretty egotistical and condescending, and the whole issue only shows our sick twisted american christian view of the joys and wonders of our own sexuality. Its not ok to see it, its not ok to talk about it, its not ok to explore it, THOSE ideas are the basis for all perversion, rape, and abuse, and its the repression of our own needs and desires that grow into the darkness inside many of us that create the predators so prevalent in our society.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


This is to the person you replied to:

I would say legally this girl supposed to face these charges. The law states any photo of a girl or a boy that is nude under the age of 18 is a declared child porno graphic. The act of taking picks of a underage person and sending them through any eletronic device or in any way shape or form is illegal.

so this girl took a pic of herself and sent it to another person which is illega it's child porn.

This is how the law is. It dosen't state anything if it's a pic of yourself that your nude and you sent that pic to another person at your age.

The law states anyone taking a pic of anyone nude under the age of 18 is view as child porn period.

When sent by eletronic devices or physical photos or video tap to anyone else it's illegal.

Now it dosen't say that if you took a nude pic of yourself and your under 18 and sent it to another person this will be ok or not viewed illegal.... no.

The law states that any picture of a underage person which is under the age of 18 if they sent that pic to someone else then it's illegal and will be view as child porn and the person who took the pics are the violates.

So this girl is under 18 took a pic of herself naked and sent it to someone. Which shows this was an illegal activity. She took a pic of a underage person which is herself and sent it to someone.

So the law is the law. The law need to be written better but according to the law she supposed to face these charges and it is considered as a crime according to the law.

Now if judges have nay brains they should understand situations instead of looking at the law as the law.

In the U.S the law system is a joke we just turn it into nothing but a game.

I mean who ever hase the best lawyers they will win the case weather you innocent or not because the judges goes soly on what the laws are and is blinding by the person situation is.

I don't think this girl is a slut or anything bad.

In sex ed they tell us to not be ashamed about these feelings so I am saying our own society tells these kids it's ok . We seriously allow it. Then the gov turns around and caps them for listening to these programs.

I have had so many sex ed classes and each and everyone encourages us young people to do these type of things saying it's normal .

I mostly blame the GOV since in the law system we the people are expected to know every single law.

Since they tell us that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Why is that???? I mean if we are not told where we can find all the laws and easily access them then how are we supposed to know the law.

I say the GOV should have a website dedicated to all laws that are made. So we can easily access them.

I know there are law libraries but those are located in specific areas for me the nearest one is about 5 hours away.

So this case shows how stupid our system is because the judges doesn't care about the person being tried for and only sees it as another day at the job where they do nothing but follow the laws that been placed.

in other countries like germany they look at the persons situation and then they try to figure out if the person is lieing or not and if the peron knownly broke the law.

So in this girls situation if it was in Germany they will figure out if she is telling the truth ect ect and would admit she done such an act then they would find out if she knew about this law or not. then would then figure out if she is lieing if she didn't knew the law and then once they know they would drop the charges.


I also seen some post here saying that this is sexist which is just men in power trying to destory the rights of women well I dont' agree.


Like I said the girl did break the law. I am a male and I don't agree she needs to face charges.

I seriously know the American Society which means we accept sexuality.

If you don't agree then take a look at ADS, and tv shows and even movies.

Also really get to know what schools teach in sex ed classes. Also look at it closely they tell the kids to wear condoms this is just telling the that it's ok to have sex but it's not ok to get someone pregnant.

I am tell you this girl is not the only kid that does this. I have heard kids younger then 12 do such a thing also.

So I am saying it's not her fault it's our society's fault.

In a class at college we also found out over the years a collection of data on marketing ads and tv shows and movies ect ect that every year we are more and more exposed to this and shows the charts are growing every year.

I am a male and personally I don't think she should face these charges. I also hate seeing kids getting sued by big corperate companies like the music industry suing kids for downloading illegally their music.

I mean we need to find punishments that fit the picture. Like if a kid downloads illegally music they should be forced to work for that company for a certain amount of time so they can understand why it's bad instead of socking it to them for money.

I mean cooperate people all ways sues kids or other people so they came make money even if that person didn't really hurt their business.

So My opinion is let the girl go. We need to revise at the laws.


.

Originally posted by computerwiz32
Since they tell us that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Why is that???? I mean if we are not told where we can find all the laws and easily access them then how are we supposed to know the law.

Exactly! I have said that more times then I can remember! It's just absurd. We have more Laws then we have stars in the heavens. You would have to be a criminal justice major or a judge to know them I swear.

Most of us are not taught the Law through education. Most of us are taught the Law from the System after being punished from not knowing it.

On a side note, you seem very sure that you are familiar with the law related to this case. Can you link your sources in this thread?

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I would have to say that I have no hatred at all towards women, or men, who could be labelled as whores or sluts. If someone is promiscuous, they are a slut, and it isn't a good life style choice, but probaby not as bad a being lazy, or any other poor life style choices. As far as the term whore is concerned, we could all be labelled as whores, it is just a matter of price.

I don't see this as having that much to do with sexism, but more to do with the desire of certain elements in society to control sexuality. They are taking societies desire to protect children from sexual predators, and using it as a giant club to go after anyone whose sexuality goes against their desires. The real sad thing is that by labelling everyone who has ever been caught doing something of a sexual nature that the authorities don't approve of as a sexual predator, they are destroying our ability to keep track of the real sexual predators who prey upon the innocent and the weak.

Back to taking a picture of a child being classified as porn. Yes, if an adult exploits a child in this way, it is porn. But for an 18 year old to take a picture of herself and send it to her boyfriend its not a crime at all. For a 15 year be in possession of her own picture is not a crime, or for her comparative age boyfriend. They are thinking of charging her as an adult.
This would mean in her flesh she is an adult suitable for court, but in the picture, at the same age she is a child. This is not a crime, these laws are put in place to protect children from adults. And they are not put in place for misbehaving teens.

reply to post by computerwiz32


I kindly ask that you read all my posts on this thread before you start arguing a case that I have already dealt with.

This isn't the first time this sort of accusation has come up. We need a national legal decision on whether or not or when children can be charged with molestation. I think this case is an extreme example of our legal system heading in the wrong direction. What happens between two people of relatively the same age should not be considered as molestation, and that should include the exchanging of pictures.

Also, our schools should minimize their supervision of childrens sexuality. It seems like this schools administration and the DA has wondered far out of their turf, and have a bit too much of an obsession with teenage sexuality.

Even if you do have a national law about what age a child can molest at, they cannot molest themselves. They cannot be legally, both the perpetrator and the victim at the same time. Even if such a law is in place, sharing a photo between two equal aged people is not molestation. Nor, is it porn. Porn is an industry. Its is a business. What people do between themselves is not porn. The only relevant thing in this case is the charge. She is being charged with possessing a picture of herself. They are thinking of charging her as an adult.
So she's a pedifile if convicted of possessing a picture of a child. Its a ludicrous, insane trumped up charge that cannot stand unless the judge is corrupt and tramples law. You cannot be a victim and perpetrator at the same time, and in addition, you cannot be tried as an adult at one age, and be in possession of a photo of yourself as a child of the same age.
Its twisted.

You think this is bad, how about arresting 10 year olds for sex crimes!!!

Come See, www.crimesagainstchildren.com...



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