Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
I hope this thread gets closed. The quote isn’t real, and it seems the OP didn’t take the time to find out if it was accurate or not.

Uhhh...the LAWSUIT is real, is it not?

I can't believe you said close the thread. Wow. Yeah let's just censor all criticism! Let's just ban anyone that questions the TRUE SAVIOR.

Sheesh.

What I don't get is this:

If this was not an issue, why wouldn't Obama just show his vault birth certificate and get it over with instead of dragging this lawsuit out, filing for a dismissal of the lawsuit, and getting shot down when the dismissal was denied by the judge?

That is my problem with this. Just show the paperwork and get it over with.

[edit on 10/14/2008 by skeptic1]

reply to post by Sonya610


The thread is about whether or not his grandmother said those things. The thread is not about the lawsuit (frivolous lawsuit I might add). It is titled:

Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes

Can you validate that? If not, this thread should be closed.

Originally posted by Sublime620
Can you validate that? If not, this thread should be closed.

Uhh...well...can you prove she did NOT say it? Can YOU validate that the lawsuit is bogus and the documents are real? When other legitimate sources claim she did NOT say it then maybe you have an argument. But still that does NOT mean the thread should be closed.

Except of course, this thread casts doubt on the True Savior. That is reason enough huh?

If your True Savior had nothing to hide and wanted this fiasco to be put to rest he would PRODUCE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS for the JUDGE!


[edit on 14-10-2008 by Sonya610]

Here's an interesting summary of Philip Berg's legal ethics lapses. It seems like he has a history of submitting falsehoods to the court:

In a June 2 opinion, Joyner found that Berg had violated Rule 11 by "filing a complaint completely devoid of any basis in fact or law, as would be apparent to any reasonable attorney after the slightest inquiry."

Sound familiar?

Philip Berg's ethics issues

reply to post by weedwhacker


John McCain's birth

John McCain was sued by the DNC and is A United States citizen.

Google is your firend.

Okay, If the fact that Obama was born in Kenya and McCain was born in Panama is such an issue, why on earth didn't anyone challenge both candidates about their citizenship in either of the two Presidential Debates covered so far?? I mean, apparently, it is an important question to ask.


[edit on 10/14/2008 by Mr Knowledge]

A Certificate of Live Birth is not the same as a Birth Certificate!!

You can't even get a passport with a Cert of Live Birth. You must have a Birth Certificate with the raised embossed State Seal.

Obama has yet to show his BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

The real question is WHY?????

reply to post by Sonya610


Well, I cannot prove a negative. Also, if you are going to use such weak argumentative fallacies, you had better do a good job disguising them.

Do you people even check things out before you come spew this crap all over the Internet? Or is just anything that smears Obama's name good enough for you?

Unfreakingbelievable.

FactCheck.org
No Raised Seal



Complete garbage.

No Stamp or Signature


Also, complete garbage.

It says African for race

Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

Borders are different

When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

So again, I ask: Will you people provide some sort of proof or any actual research besides running your mouths? Don't dumb this board down with mediocre sources, mudslinging, and perpetuating lies.

I have the news media for that job. I come here for the good stuff.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Again, why not RESEARCH!?!?!

It's not that damn hard. Jesus.

FactCheck.Org

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

*Edit to add:

Every dumb, unfounded idea of how this is fake and Obama isn't a citizen is answered on this page. So, just read it and come back to discuss afterwards. I've posted as much as I need to here.

The only thing it doesn't refer to is Obama's grandmother's "statements". Unfortunately, no one on this thread has proven them to even be real, and some apparently think they don't need to.

Somehow it has become my responsibility to prove she didn't say them. That sure makes a lot of sense...

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Sublime620]

reply to post by GamerGal

Originally posted by Sublime620
Well, I cannot prove a negative. Also, if you are going to use such weak argumentative fallacies, you had better do a good job disguising them.

Do you people even check things out before you come spew this crap all over the Internet? Or is just anything that smears Obama's name good enough for you?

So, are you saying that the Judge is allowing this case to go forward for no reason? Are you saying it is pointless and there is no reason for the Judge to demand an original document?

Oh...more fallacies. If there was nothing to hid, the documents would have simply been provided.

But maybe that is TOO simple! Yeah.

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by Sonya610

 

The thread is about whether or not his grandmother said those things. The thread is not about the lawsuit (frivolous lawsuit I might add). It is titled:

Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes

Can you validate that? If not, this thread should be closed.

This seems like a fair argument. The OP sites an article that has either intentionally or accidentally misrepresented the facts. (To be honest, I lean towards the former.) Not saying the OP is at fault here, just that the source material has been discredited. Seems like it might now fall under:

No Innuendo or Rumor. Threads regarding the candidates for the 2008 election will be allowed from this point forward in any of the ATS forums.

I'd be all for seeing evidence...but isn't this thread now just about an unsubstantiated rumor? If it has become simply about a rumor, it's a sadly popular thread.

reply to post by Sonya610


Again, he has provided the documents and they have been proven to be valid by both the United States Government, and the independant political research group FactCheck.Org (which has proven itself to be reliable in the past on all accounts).

Do you have any evidence to provide, or will you continue to run your mouth and make a fool of yourself?

*Edit to add:

Also, I did a lot of research for you above, and all didn't respond to any of it. Please note that I have provided real facts and you have provided words that mean nothing.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Sublime620]

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by Sonya610

 

Well, I cannot prove a negative. Also, if you are going to use such weak argumentative fallacies, you had better do a good job disguising them.

Do you people even check things out before you come spew this crap all over the Internet? Or is just anything that smears Obama's name good enough for you?

Unfreakingbelievable.

FactCheck.org
No Raised Seal



Complete garbage.

No Stamp or Signature


Also, complete garbage.

It says African for race

Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

Borders are different

When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

 

So again, I ask: Will you people provide some sort of proof or any actual research besides running your mouths? Don't dumb this board down with mediocre sources, mudslinging, and perpetuating lies.

I have the news media for that job. I come here for the good stuff.

sublime620,

Yep...I agree with your facts...

I didn't see the reverse side of the certificate, which does include the signature...

Thanks for the clarification...That's all I wanted...

Obama and McCain are both good men, politics aside...

reply to post by dude77


Yes, dude77....our Constitution is a malleable document....and the concept of Senator McCain having been born, to a member of the United States Military on Offical Deployment to a US Military base in a foreign country....

This strikes me as a bit of a stretch of credulity --- but I don't know if there is any law to support the notion.

MY POINT is....A child could be born at Ramstein AFB in Germany, to a duly deployed United States Military Officer, and if the birth occured on base, would he/she still be eligible to be President, under the Constitution?

I am hoping some Constitutional experts may read this, and weigh in.

Our Nation has several 'Territories'....I mentioned Guam, there is also Puerto Rico, and the Islands of Micronesia (I know I'm missing some others).....but a 'Territory' is not a 'State'.

Perhaps most Americans don't realize this....there are Congressional 'representatives' from these various 'territories'....they have NO voting rights, they are merely observors. Since, of course, their 'territories' are not States.

Funny....it's the same status in the District of Columbia.

The early 'founders' felt that the DC should be free of 'politics'. Meaning, NO representation in the House or Senate. There was no way people two centuries ago could conceive of a city near a swamp being as large, population-wise, as it is today.

Well, the population in the DC IS large....and growing....and to the rue of the Republican Party, who have ruled for far too long, it is staunchly on the side of personal rights, and less on the side of subjugation by those with the 'power' and the 'wealth'.

Only good news is...District Residents ARE allowed to vote in the General Election, for President...(Along with, of course, various local Mayoral and Ward campaigns...which to me seem less important...because 'lobbyists' seem to outnumber residents by about two-to-one)...

Back to my point....the District of Columbia does NOT have a Star on our Flag. This was a design, by the Founders. It brings up a question....this is the Capital of our Country. It is NOT a State. If a potential Presidential candidate happened to be BORN in the DC....would he/she be eligible????

Folks....this is Civics/101!!!

I'm supposing there is already law there....if not an Amendment...to address this issue.

If not, then I've opened a big can of worms. Or, the can was opened, and re-closed.

Back to the point of the OP....fishy as it sounds.

Vague inferences do not 'proof' imply. So far we've seen people talk about the 'helvitica' font, we've seen annonymous people claim that Hawai'i didn't produce a Birth Certificate as shown....we've seen others point out that sometimes when you request a 'duplicate' of our BC, it varies between States, and it may depend on whether the original was scanned into a DataBase....that could possibly change the font, not that that's important.

Sheesh!!! I went through this when my Father died!!! I was 'Executor'....and a problem cropped up with HIS Father's BC!!!! I went through hell to convince all of the various agencies....and to try to track down my Grandfather's (a man who died before I was born) BC!

One agency wants to see an actual imprint....from a Notary Public!!! One won't take a fax or a photocopy....damn! It was ridiculous!!! My Grandfather died in 1956!!!!

This is to show how this 'red-herring' of the alleged Birth Certificate is just another pathetic attempt to smear a good man....who had the misfortune of being born in the Fiftieth State of the United States of America....and happens to be of 'mixed' race!

Well....I think we are ALL born of 'mixed' race.....since EVERY human being who exists on the face of the Earth today has a common ancestor in Africa. Just research the Mother's mitochondrial DNA records on Google....

Originally posted by Vault-D
I'd be all for seeing evidence...but isn't this thread now just about an unsubstantiated rumor? If it has become simply about a rumor, it's a sadly popular thread.

Well since the court has stated that documents must be presented by tomorrow (the hospitals have been refusing to honor the subpoenas) I guess we will see huh?

And I find it ASTOUNDING that people on ATS are now demanding that other ATS posters PROVE the legitimacy of newspaper articles that have been covered by various sources.

If every opinion and every news post must be substantiated by an ATS LIVE witness, or to be more accurate anyone that has an opinion about a post must have witnessed the act or be able to provide definitive proof before they can post their thoughts then I do predict this website will dwindle in a matter of days.

Apparently because I cannot PROVE that the article is correct, I have no right share my opinions in this thread!

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by Vault-D
I'd be all for seeing evidence...but isn't this thread now just about an unsubstantiated rumor? If it has become simply about a rumor, it's a sadly popular thread.

Well since the court has stated that documents must be presented by tomorrow (the hospitals have been refusing to honor the subpoenas) I guess we will see huh?

And I find it ASTOUNDING that people on ATS are now demanding that other ATS posters PROVE the legitimacy of newspaper articles that have been covered by various sources.

If every opinion and every news post must be substantiated by an ATS LIVE witness, or to be more accurate anyone that has an opinion about a post must have witnessed the act or be able to provide definitive proof before they can post their thoughts then I do predict this website will dwindle in a matter of days.

Apparently because I cannot PROVE that the article is correct, I have no right share my opinions in this thread!

You were never big on homework in school were you?

The source is a right-wing radio host's BLOG.
The newspaper source that the blogger is quoting does not make the claims that the blogger is stating they make.

Unsubstantiated rumours on some dude's blog are not a valid source for "Breaking News."

You have been given the information to research it yourself. Go ahead, do it.

reply to post by Sonya610


What straw are you grasping for? The only thing we are asking for documented proof of is that this woman said what this thread is claiming she said.

How Arguments Work

-Provide Claim
-Provide Support for said claim

Where is the support for the claim? Why do you keep bringing up the lawsuit which is completely irrelevant. Start a new thread about that if you want. We can discuss that there.

All you have done is show that you have an extreme opinion on a subject and no actual evidence to back any of it up.

reply to post by swdecord


Thanks.

I'm glad someone (swdecord) has enough sense to use logical thought. He/she came here with concerns/questions, they were answered, he/she was satisfied.

Wish everyone worked that way.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Sublime620]