Who won tonights debate?

I don't like to derail threads, but since this aspect of her speech has already been brought up by previous members in this thread, I'd like to add a bit of information. It is a subject important enough to warrant clarification.

I am more than a little perplexed by the claims being made here regarding the U.S. and its role regarding the environment. Statements have been posted to both extremes: either the U.S. is the greatest contributor to pollution or it is "the only country that actually gives a damn." Both are terrifically wrong. For those who are interested in data relating to this issue, the U.S. ranks number thirty-nine on the Environmental Performance Index of 2008 (sedac.ciesin.columbia.edu...). The goal is to be as close to position one as you can...unless you actually intend to damage the environment more than other countries.

Typically, Western European countries (Scandinavian countries in particular) have the best environmental ratings. The U.S. is never tops, and anyone who argues contrarily is either appallingly ignorant of the facts or intentionally lying. Really now--how on earth could you possibly think that the U.S. is an environmental force to emulate? We ain't China, but we sure as hell ain't a leader in sustainability.

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Originally posted by clearlight808
Pteridine:

I think thats totally true on many levels.
The GOP is all about CHristian Values as ling as it doesn't slow down the money train.
I think there's a lot of earnest values voters that must be getting sick of this.\

I remember hearing about a book that purportedly "exposed" the fact that the whole evangelical thing is just lip service for some "sure thing" votes and that the politicians (ie Bush etc...) are almost mocking the evangelicals on the inside.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by clearlight808]

I have a feeling that's true. The evangelical base is currently such a secure source of support for the GOP; any Republican politician would be foolish not to exploit it. I don't know that the evangelicals of America really mind if the GOP is using them or not, provided the GOP followed through and performed in accordance to Christian political views (whether they've ever done so is up for debate). Beyond this, it seems that the entirety of "small-town America", "rural America", call it what you will, is being pandered to in this election on an unprecedented level. The Republican party is, per the usual, the most aggressive on this front. The Democrats have followed in kind, but they just can't seem to be as believable as the GOP. I was listening to Palin speak tonight, and at one point she said something to the effect of "Those of us on Main Street, like me, will be hit hardest." I couldn't help but mentally applaud her, because we all know how willingly the self-identified "common Americans" have been swallowing this tripe. Biden isn't guiltless here, either, what with his allusion to a childhood in Scranton and understanding of the working class. It is an grand American embarrassment that we are so easily swayed by the personal relatability factor. What sort of logic dictates that a good politician is one who is "just like me"? It's absolutely ridiculous and more infuriating by the day.


[edit on 3/10/08 by paperplanes]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


She IS cute but that whole winking thing borders on unprofessional....

Its on again right now for those who'd like another look.

*wink wink*


[edit on 3-10-2008 by clearlight808]

Please...

The repetitive posting of these "popularity contest" style polls is gratuitous at best, and lends nothing to the discussion. When scientific polls are released (those would be the ones you can't vote in online) then that viable addition to the conversation that will be most welcome.

Thanks

I can't help but to think the republicans got the a-bomb tucked away for the right moment. They are avoiding playing dirty, to an unusual degree actually.

Hard to say now, but I think this debate will go nuclear in the final week and it will be the republicans on the attack.

She's got one mother of a thumb in on the handshake... Anyone see that?



[edit on 3-10-2008 by Atlantican]

CBS Polll

Forty-six percent of the uncommitted voters surveyed say Democrat Joe Biden won the debate, compared to 21 percent for Republican Sarah Palin. Thirty-three percent said it was a tie.

I thought they both kinda sucked. They just spewed a lot of bs from what I could tell. It is always amazing how Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin are going to change the world and fix our country but they never seem to have any info to back up how exactly they plan to do that. It just bites that we are stuck with picking the one that sucks least.

Whoever called her Caribou Barbie is a freakin genius. That is hilarious and that is coming from somebody who might vote for her. Gotta have a sense of humor.

Ok and whoever said the comment about republicans being all for the government getting out of our business and how that is contrary to saying they wont let women choose to have abortions. Well it brings up the contrary question for democrats. If they are all for the government holding their hand and kissing away all their boo boo's from birth to death, then isnt it contrary to say the government shouldnt not be allowed to say you have a choice. Just thought that both sides seem to be on the wrong side of the equation. Kinda funny how things work out.

It just seems to me that it is a human pro creation kinda thing and it doesnt make sense for us to kill our own species regardless of religious or political beliefs. If they dont want to take care of their kid i volunteer to raise it for them. Who knows it might be the next Einstein.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by justsomeboreddude]

I really think she tried hard and did the best that she could. I believe she is a really nice woman. But there are millions of "nice" folks out there, the point is rather who is the better candidate for the position? I think for Biden it was old hat and no contest...he knows his stuff and has proven his sharpness. Sarah on the other hand did as many on here have already pointed out, didn't answer the question, changed the topic to suit her, relied on cliche's and in short simply could not compare to Joe's international and domestic policy savvy and in depth understanding of affairs.

They were both cordial and professional. Both were classy in their performances. I really liked how everyone shook hands and the two families got to meet one another after the debate. I sure would have liked to know what was being said, but on Biden's part it looked to me as if he was paying Palin and family many compliments. At least we see that both are civil and excellent people in that respect. Where Palin falls short however, is in her knowledge and abilities to play with the big dogs.

I just hope she goes home knowing she did the very best she could. I just think she's way too small town for this.

Originally posted by clearlight808

I'd be surprised if we were as bad as China. I had a friend who went there and he told me your nose would literally clog with soot every few hours.

This was in a "factory heavy" region........


And as far as "tingly thighs" Matthews, you must be listening to Insanity and (liberal punching bag) Combs....(!)

They already pass us in total co2 emissions the fact that they have lower power emissions means that large parts of china don't have electricity its an unfair comparison. They have no emission controls on there vehicles nor is it required . Sewage is untreated and dumped into waters. Insecticide is rampantly used everywhere in china and washes into rivers and streams which is used to irrigate there farms causing contamination. And factories have so much emissions they had to shut down factories for the Olympics and the athletes were still complaining about air quality and would wear masks. But of course the united states is worse right?

Originally posted by TruthWithin

Originally posted by CreeWolf
Calm down liberals! She's not going to take away your right to kill your babies!

That is reprehensible. It's crap like that that really lowers the value of ATS. Shame on you.

Dont worry mate,we could say Pallins lot want to kill babies in oill and Commie wars.The abortion issue will not go away with a lot of the church people,and that one point is the main issue in their voting

I heard a report from BBC radio reporting from Ohio and the bible thumpers said they wanted Pallin/McCain as they believed in God,this was gods country and anyone who believed in God would be able to make good judgment calls!The democratic matther 24 group are trying to cut into that big group of people who voted for Bush last election,and there starting to sway some over.The pro life issue is a big issue,and I can see both sides points of view-Apart from Pallins stand(if she said it)that raped ladies should have the child

Its the main story here on BBC breakfast time news!*shakes head*I personaly think it should be mentioned quickly at the end of the news.
They did a quick poll with LA voters from a Bar,and a lot of the female voters thought she did realy well!I didnt watch the debate but I cant believe that,i could believe her waffling off subject,fluttering her eyes

The BBC think she did very well,only time will tell

I also heard Biden outright say he and Obama were against gay marriage. I thought Obama was pro gay marriage?

reply to post by clearlight808


lol, I suppose I would have to agree. But my only point is the guys do the guy version of posturing all the time...

Obama standing Eagle Eyed into the Horizon, Biden with his Fist and ridiculous hand gestures that never end, Bush always showing the Horns...

and McCain just sort of spazzes out when he gets excited and it's a lil wierd

But they all do it.

Reading the posts on here I am wondering if I was watching the same debate. Palin didn't implode like I thought she would. A much better showing than the interviews she's done. And before anyone shouts out that the Liberal media has been unfair to her. I say "Bullocks!"

She doesn't understand what's going on, she dodged most of the sensitive questions kept repeating the same lies that McBush has been spewing. She seems like a really nice person, well put together and she is probably very intelligent. I haven't seen much of that being shown. She just doesn't have what it takes to do the job.

Biden knew McBush's voting record better than she did? How sad is that, she was very contradictory in her statements and I imagine the campaign will be doing lot's of back peddling tomorrow to clarify some of her statements just like John had to do the other day. I feel sorry for her, she is being used and deep down she has to know it.

reply to post by Fathom


LOL I have to laugh and am not bring the topic back up, but Abortion isn't a debate issue given Palins stance and Gay marriage is????

Sorry but one of these issues effects every American family and the other doesn't even come close to that.

I have to admit that the whole set of issues is barely relevant to me.

The Economy is addressed but not the Internet Economy... ever, in the whole election.

I'm sorry but Greenhouse gasses and Polution, Oil/Gas and the wars over the particular resource, Family... amount of time with, Children and Education

this was the whole debate

and not one candidate says the word Internet

in regrds to working from home, cutting emissions, needing less gas, spending more time with and educating children, ways for companies to save money via virtual office space and lower Office costs, Technology related as oppossed to factory jobs... which btw is the Future...

Nada... Nothing about how the Net can help solve these problems

Which says to me.. they are both clueless as to a real direction for America...

Gosh... I work on the net and...

Do you know what that 2 hrs not in a commute as added work hrs means? What a hundred or more in gas a week means?

I'm talking about at least 1,200.00 a month in savings and I'm not spending it on Middle east oil...

and it's more than that... car repairs, time with children, being a present parent

How does this debate Avoid the Internet and it's economic impact and future?

Sad really, how far behind the times they are

I am not voting for Obama at all, I made up my mind on this a long time ago and with the economy in the stinker and with the democrats screwing with the community reinvestment act and Fannie and Freddie ties, it is in my opinion that the democrats caused this financial crisis.

With that said, I don't see the big deal with Palin's performance tonight.

She kept talking about her family and kept trying to appear like your average momma. I really don't care about that, I want to hear raw politics and I want to hear how she would clean up the dirt in Washington since the Republican ticket is running on their own version of change.

What a worthless debate. McCain and Palin should be fighting for FBI probes and immediate congressional investigations into the one of the biggest financial disasters in American history, not just in the debate but in their campaign. Instead it seems like they are being "bipartisan" by protecting their own political classes.

The more I see the economy go down the crapper and the more I see Palin, an outsider that is supposedly known for her history of reform, not saying anything on the real dirt of the system, the more I am inclined to put her into the same empty suit category as Obama.

Originally posted by Fathom
I also heard Biden outright say he and Obama were against gay marriage. I thought Obama was pro gay marriage?

Not quite.

Obama supports civil unions between same-sex couples that would allow them to have the same civil liberties as traditional marriages. McCain does not support this. Obama, and McCain, are not for the idea of redefining and adapting 'Marriage' from it's traditional meaning. Hence "civil union". I don't entirely agree with this, but at least Obama is supporting these civil liberties for them.

If you look at their track records you will clearly see the pattern of Obama supporting gay rights, and McCain opposing them. So depending on which fence your standing on..

Its all Aliens vs Predator to me.
Whoever wins, we loose.

Lucid's Poll

Winks during debate:

Palin - 4
Biden - 0

Smiles during debate:

Palin - permanent
Biden - 6

Use of the word 'maverick':

Palin - 11
Biden - 3

Use of the words 'danggit', 'darnit':

Palin - 7
Biden - 0

Palin was clearly the maverick tonight gosh danggit!

Sarah Palin's Achilles Heel was answering the moderators questions

I personally think that Palin really didn't answer anything and both me and my wife felt that she was talking to us like we were idiots. I mean come on, "Joe Six-pack"?
If you want to connect with the middle class, then take notes from Ron Paul and say what he'd say.

The debate was the usual B/S with nothing really answered except for how the undeclared Ohio voters felt when each candidate was speaking.

We did come out of it with a new drinking game, every time that Palin says "Maverick", take a drink. Glad I recorded it, might be able to get some the guys I work with to actually watch this stuff now...

reply to post by semiunknown


We posted at the same time, we should add my poll to this drinking game!


Do you know what Joe 6-pack even means? I was trying to figure out if that meant a fat dude (6 pack of beer) or a guy with hard abs Not that either make sense in this debate.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Technically, you can say Biden won the debate because he had more detailed responses. But, the net result was that Palin won because she improved her image. Biden didn't gain any points tonight. He's still viewed the same way. Palin though, 87% of people said her performance was better than expected. This debate was a huge success for Palin. The problem is that it isn't going to get them a lot of votes. Its just going to make people feel more confident about Palin.

What I wonder about is if reg everyday people felt a stronger connection with Palin. She might have gotten those people to vote for her. People that go on websites and vote on online polls are probably going to base their decision on who gave the most detailed responses. Those will say Biden won, but did Palin win over voters that don't pay much attention to politics? People also said by a huge # that Biden seemed like a typical politician. I'm guessing everyday people that don't follow politics related to Palin a lot more. Her job is to appeal to certain demographics, and that she did tonight beautifully. For the general public, she just needs to look decent, and that she did tonight.

McCain-Palin is back on track with this debate, the problem is that they are both still weak on issue #1, the economy.