Who won tonights debate?

I watched the debate and...

I can't vote for somebody who says "NUKILAR", no matter what party they belong to. Moreso from a person who ostensibly has a degree in journalism.

Palin answered few of the questions, went on full adorable mode and "shored up the base". A word to the GOPers: that base won't get you squat this time. Ideologues don't believe that politics is cyclical, but if you study actual history (pre-Reagan), it's obvious. But the neo-fascists need not worry - in about forty to sixty years, the cycle will get around to you again.

I can't believe the disparity in views on this thread ( which i started last night).

If I didn't know better i'd have to think our very perceptions are drastically different. IMHO it was kinda up in the air as far as who "won".

I think Biden did better m but he's done this sort of thing forever.
Palin was charming , but didnt answer the questions really, and we're not looking for a charmer, we need a leader.


When all is said and done, its the old "douche vs. turd sandwich election like on South Park. I'm pro-Obama on : "he's a LITTLE different than the usual.:

In the end i think the repulblicans will find a way to "win", sadly enough.

I'm watching FOX and they have her clearly winning this "game changer".
Anyone think they've gone from skewed to straight-up lying?



[edit on 3-10-2008 by clearlight808]

how are women ever going to break the glass ceiling? i dunno if it's possible.
seriously. the two party system seems complicit in this. they refuse each other's female candidates by targetting prominent negative stereotypes and use them to manipulate public opinion.

this entire campaign, starting with the hillary debacle and following thru to the palin situation, is just one long insult to women. every conceivable negative stereotype about women has been pulled out, dusted off and paraded around.

you fellas should be ashamed of yourselves.

that's all i gotta say on the subject (cause lord knows, i'm a dumb mom, but at least, i'm not a dumb beauty queen hockey mom from alaska. poor lady).





[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

reply to post by feydrautha


Excellant response.
I feel Palin won the debate. I did feel she was a tad to "chummy" with her "Joe six-pack" comments here and there. It is interesting how Biden told bald faced lies and seemingly got away with it.

I am no fan of McCain. He is a Washington insider and his self described "maverick" title is not very well deserved. I was dead against how he held the hand of Kennedy and Pelosi over several issues that were/are just plain bad for Americans.

I was also very impressed with the moderator of the debate. I was worried that it would be a soft ball fest for Biden but Gwen Ifill was neutral, fair and did a creditable job holding their feet to the fire on several non-answers they gave to some important questions.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SR

 

oh you got me there! that's why every opportunity is taken to criticize her based on her gender. she's a dumb mom. she's a dumb hockey mom. she's a dumb beauty queen hockey mom. she's a dumb beauty queen hockey mom from alaska, where the hell is alaska!
this goes on and on and on, and has absolutely nothing to do with the issues, only her gender. same thing happened to hillary!!!

For the love off.....

I don't care about the fact that she's a woman the fact that she has NO substance what's so ever is speaking for her all on her own all she does is stand there and smile and read of her prepared cards prepared by the best media teams in the world. And yet women think they should stick with her cause it's an attack on the female gender what the hell.

Shouldn't you be supporting strong intelligent women!!! Not promoting or supporting a woman being used as little more than a puppet.

Condi and Hillary are amazing female politicians... Palin is not..there is plenty of room for her to become though in time but no way should she be the VP at this stage.

There all the interviews to watch of her on Youtube where she's on about going to war with Russia possible in the future, Bombing Pakistan, Iraq was involved in 9/11, war with Iran etc. etc.

Humans and dinosaurs walked the earth as the same time.

On the USA economy; 'greed caused it' well thanks for stating the obvious there, oh and by chance aren't you the VP candidate of the party that where the greedy ones that caused the mess in the first place.. and the person who wants to keep digging up oil.

And who needs polls, she suggested, when there are youth soccer games with parents on the sidelines showing fear about the economy.........So you base how the public feels and what decisions to make by listening to what a few people at a football game say........ So what about the american public that don't go to football who listens to them????

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

It's like honestly i would of thought by now you Americans would of had enough of this kind of inept leadership style.

Please, let's refrain from off-topic, personal attacks.

Peace



[edit on 3-10-2008 by Dr Love]

oh that post was on topic! he's criticizing our government and our candidates, and depending on where he is from, this could make a big difference on how i am going to view his commentary.

reply to post by SR


just as a side note, your comment that she believes humans and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time, was an example of her inepitude, lack of intelligence or what have you. you realize there are plenty of democrats who believe similar topics? i'm sorry but in the USA, people are actually allowed to have differing viewpoints on every subject!!

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
well youve got it right

from what ive seen she sure is dumb

then you havent been paying attention to joe biden, allow me to direct your attention:

---

"Part of what a leader does is to instill confidence, is demonstrate that he or she knows what they're talking about and communicates to people, "if you listen to me and follow what I'm suggesting, we can fix this."

When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on television and didn't just talk about, you know, the princes of greed, he said "look, here's what happened."

When the stock market crashed, Hoover was president, and television was still in the laboratory.

The money quote starts at 1:48: Youtube

---

Biden Explains Why We Should Vote for Obama

Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden, campaigning in North Carolina where black votes could help swing the state to the Democrats, said today that electing a black person to the White House would be transformative.

Biden said the policies of running mate Barack Obama make his presidency even more urgent and declared this to be the most important election that any living person has seen in their lifetime. But he particularly singled out the meaning of electing someone who is black.

"That will be a transformative event in American politics and internationally," Biden said. "That all by itself will be significant."

Source

---

Biden Admits Shrillary Would Have Been a Better Choice for VP

Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let's get that straight. She's a truly close personal friend, she is qualified to be president of the United States of America, she's easily qualified to be vice president of the United States of America, and quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me.

Source


---

Joe Biden Confesses to Murder

"I'm prepared as a matter of faith to accept that life begins at the moment of conception."

he supports easy, free abortion on demand.

Source


---


he plagiarized his own biography, his wife and daughter were not killed by a drunk driver, so why did he repeadly state as much?

he flunked a law school class for plagiarizing, claimed he graduated at the top of his class, when his ranking was actually 76 of 85.

Source

---

here he is, publicly intoxicated:

Youtube

Youtube

---

Biden: Elect Us and We'll Throw the Previous Administration in Jail

When asked during a campaign event in Deerfield Beach, Florida, whether he would "pursue the violations that have been made against our Constitution by the present administration", Biden answered in the affirmative.

"We will not be stopped from pursuing any criminal offence that's occurred,"

Biden said, adding: "But, you know, there's been an awful lot of unsavoury stuff that's gone on. And the mere fact … that it occurred in a previous administration doesn't mean [a subsequent] Justice Department, if, in fact, there's evidence, shouldn't pursue them. "But I have no evidence of any of that.

No one's talking about pursuing President Bush criminally."

Source

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Biden: Let the Terrorist Mullahs Have Nukes

US Senator and vice presidential hopeful Joe Biden reportedly told Israeli officials three years ago that sooner or later they would have to reconcile themselves to the reality of a nuclear-armed Iran.

Israel's Army Radio reported on the remarks, which Biden is said to have made to visiting Israeli officials in his capacity as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

According to the report, Biden reaffirmed to the Israelis his rejection of military action against Iran, but also admitted that diplomatic efforts to halt Iran's nuclear program had little or no chance of success. In essence, Biden resigned himself to the idea of a nuclear-armed Iran and told the Israelis that they, too, would have to accept that outcome.

Israeli security officials on Monday expressed concern over the remarks and saw them as further evidence that if Biden and his running mate, Senator Barack Obama, win the upcoming US presidential election, Iran's acquisition of nuclear weapons will be a foregone conclusion.

Source

---

he also insists that it is patriotic to pay more taxes...

Source

---

theres lots more from the gaffe machine, joe biden, would you care for more?

reply to post by undo


Yes

As i previously said i never really supported neither parties candidates before but clearly if the crunch comes to the crunch and you's have to pick.

I and many others around the world who are affected by the USA's decisions would like the American people to pick someone who would talk to other countries before claiming amongst other excuses God tells them they should attack wherever.

Obama seems the only character who is willingly to do this instead of going crazy. Despite his gaping flaws and Bidens flaws.

reply to post by SR


what people around the world? and do you think people around the world should dictate the policies of your country?

alot of americans don't agree with spreading democracy by force. we don't agree with the new world order concept, and we don't agree with dominionism. and we also don't believe in full out socialism or communism. we just want our country back and our infrastructure rebuilt and our corporations returned to our shores. we want the gov to stop taxing the hell out of our businesses and forcing them offshore to use slave labor in other countries.

we want our politics and our politicians to grow nerve endings.

Smart, fluid and relentless, experienced, clued up and confident. Yeah! I'm talking about Biden.

Palin looked amateurish to say the least. She was completely out of her depth where foreign policy was concerned. Even a moron could have made out that she had mugged up her script but flew aimlessly all over unfamiliar terrain looking for a target, but failed.

Her knowledge is extremely superficial where foreign policy is concerned. Now having said this, is this what one expects of a potential president of the US of A in a worst case scenario? Can I imagine a hockey mom with unkempt hair with little or zilch knowledge of foreign affairs, as the commander in chief and president of the most powerful nation in the world? NO!

Shooting a moose in the butt isn't the only qualification for Vice President of the United States!

[edit on 3-10-2008 by mikesingh]

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SR

 

talk to the hand buddy.
you're insulting my gender

I have been a long time reader of the ATS forum's and never felt a need to post, but the ridiculous statement above prompted me. As a female I don't feel the post that 'undo' was referring to was insulting at all.

I am not a fan of Biden, he doesn't impress me in the slightest. But Palin is embarrassing to me as a woman. In my opinion she was completely scripted and continually changed the subject when she didn't know how to answer a question.

And 'Gosh-darn it' she was ridiculous. I would like someone who's a little more professional when speaking for me, rather than someone who I think would relate better with the average american.


[edit on 10/3/08 by Skamindy77]

reply to post by mikesingh


will you stop with the flippin' hockey mom crap?! just stop it already! it has nothing to do with the fact she has kids who play hockey, good LORD!

[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by SR...all she does is stand there and smile and read of her prepared cards prepared by the best media teams in the world. And yet women think they should stick with her cause it's an attack on the female gender...

here teleprompter was off at the convention, and she was great. obama cannot even attend a rodeo without one...

[T]he Illinois senator used a teleprompter at both his Colorado events Monday — making for a particularly peculiar scene in Pueblo, where the prompter was set up in the middle of what is normally a rodeo ring.

Source

Shouldn't you be supporting strong intelligent women!!! Not promoting or supporting a woman being used as little more than a puppet.

yes, puppets are routinely handed towns and states to run... not.

There all the interviews to watch of her on Youtube where she's on about going to war with Russia possible in the future, Bombing Pakistan, Iraq was involved in 9/11, war with Iran etc. etc.

there are bad people who want to do us harm. you can pretend that the world is a big benneton advert, luckily people like sarah are not so deluded.

Humans and dinosaurs walked the earth as the same time.

when did she say this? cite your source, but that cant be all you have, is it?

On the USA economy; 'greed caused it' well thanks for stating the obvious there, oh and by chance aren't you the VP candidate of the party that where the greedy ones that caused the mess in the first place.. and the person who wants to keep digging up oil.

Bloomberg.com, hardly known for its right-wing point of view, lays out in simple terms what — and who — caused the current financial meltdown:

Source

and you'd prefer that we keep our dependence on foreign oil? yeah, that makes sense...

And who needs polls, she suggested...

polls are routinely exposed as highly inaccurrate, pay attention

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

thats really all you had to post... as substantial as you offered so far.

It's like honestly i would of thought by now you Americans would of had enough of this kind of inept leadership style.

proven to be just the opposite, you're as bereft of clue as many of our own citizens.

Originally posted by undo
this entire campaign, starting with the hillary debacle and following thru to the palin situation, is just one long insult to women. every conceivable negative stereotype about women has been pulled out, dusted off and paraded around.

I beg to differ. There were TONS of positive stereotypes about Palin that were paraded by GOP and herself. Didn't you hear all these "sixpack Joes", "hockey mom", "special needs children" etc

Whateveer negatives you hear about Palin are unrelated to her gender imho. If she dodges a question or mumbles in an interview, it has nothing to do with her genitalia.

Biden was totally in command of the facts while Palin simply repeated phrases and slogans.

If you look back over the debate you'll note that Palin's performance was based on an actor's delivery of crafted lines that often had little or nothing to do with the question being asked.

Acting confident can sometimes fool people into thinking there is substance where there is none. The Bush base will gobble up nonsense as long as they are reassured by the speaker's look and attitude. Fortunately most voters are growing weary of this and it is not going to work this time.

Vote for a brain - not McSame.