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Do You Believe Our Military Would Not Defend The American People?

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posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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From what I have been reading some Americans don't trust the military to protect them from our government.

U.S soldiers are citizens as well. They are family and friends with the same concerns as us. They sworn to defend the people of America foreign or domestic.

As a vet I don't understand why many believe that they would fight against citizens if given orders. How many people believe this and why?

Domestic threats include the NWO and our Government.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by TheHunted]

[edit on 29-9-2008 by TheHunted]




posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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I think it has to do with the militarys use of brainwashing. Tear them down as far as they will go, then build them the way the military sees fit, be in foot soldier,sniper or any other special job within.
Train someone to not feel sympathy for 10 years in separation from his loved ones and the person no longer feels sympathy.
I'm not by any means claiming to know this for sure but with enough training/brainwashing, they could make a person kill anyone they see fit, be it innocents or soldiers of both sides.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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Not at first. Then at some point I do trust that they will begin to think independently. It will be like in no other country in that respect.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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Take 100 soldiers from Wisconsin, assign them to secure a water treatment facility in Alabama. When scores of thirsty people come storming over the hill to get water by force, do you THINK the 1st Lieutenant is gong to stop and say, "Hey fellas, let these citizens through."?

No, they will be told who IS and who ISN'T an enemy combatant; and that line has been virtually erased over the last 8 years.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:09 PM
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Sure our soldiers embody America just as much if not more than your average civilian. But what it comes down to is the fact that a soldier is conditioned to take orders. I don't believe that all soldiers would be stupid enough to obey a stupid order and fight against civilians but I believe there are some that would. Take the Boston Massacre as an example. Sure it was a different time and they were British soldiers but this tragedy took place before the United States was even a twinkle in the eye of our forefathers. We were all a part of the British Empire and were fired upon by soldiers who were given an order(most likely shouted from the crowd, but they thought they were being ordered from their commanding officer). Sure these soldiers felt bad about what they did but in the heat of the moment is there really time to decide between what is right and what is wrong? Especially when you believe your life or personal safety may depend on the actions you take. It could happen!



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by TheHunted

Do you believe our military would not defend the american people



That is easy to answer, they are not defending us now so why would they do it in the future?

To actually defend the American people would mean they would need to think for themselves and not always do as they are told when criminals use them to comment crimes against us like is going on now.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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They didnt seem to have any problem wrestling an old lady in New Orleans to the ground to steal her pistol i.e. sole method of defending herself. Or did you forget about that?



Something tells me should the order be given you'd be first in line at my door just itching to put a bullet into my head.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by thisguyrighthere]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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Millitary and polise is a instrument of order used by polititions. If you dont follow the ruels they make for you. You will get whats comming to you.

If the system dont have polise and millitary there will be no order in the system. There is no garanti that it wount be used against you. Because the system and rules can change.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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The Constitution has already been destroyed, when are the soldiers going to start "protecting" us? Now don't get me wrong, I am not against serving in the military and such, in fact my own brother did two tours with 4ID and is on his second tour as a contractor. But soldiers are just a tool. They would need proper leadership and an objective. If that were to arise, I have no doubt that we might see a mutinous rupture in the ranks.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


New Orleans was a hostile zone during that time. Crime in the city was at an all time high. People were actually sniping people off from bridges. The National Guard who was there trying to restore order were being used as target practice as well. Anybody with a weapon was a posible threat. Don't know if you ever been in a combat zone, you take nothing for granted.

Why would I want to put a bullet in your head? Because we disagreed in another thread. Sounds like you are holding a grudge. You never know we may see eye to eye on other things. I don't want to see you get shot...Stop making me out to be the bad guy.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
The Constitution has already been destroyed, when are the soldiers going to start "protecting" us? Now don't get me wrong, I am not against serving in the military and such, in fact my own brother did two tours with 4ID and is on his second tour as a contractor. But soldiers are just a tool. They would need proper leadership and an objective. If that were to arise, I have no doubt that we might see a mutinous rupture in the ranks.


Theres a lot of Marshal Law paranoia going today. If your brother was in the military when the time came, would he defend the people against the government?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by TheHunted
 



...would he defend the people against the government?


He would follow orders. It would take an awful lot to convince a soldier that their government had become the enemy of the people. I don't blame soldiers for that, just the way it is. I had a grand-uncle who served in the SS too. He didn't think he was an evil person, or that his country and leader were wrong.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by TheHunted
 


That is a good point. It would have to be under the banner of self defense or an army of American insurgents. It is not as if there has not been a precedent. Revolutions, Civil Wars have brother pitted against brother. It does not take a lot to make civilians into mortal enemies.

I think New Orleans has proved that. And as you quite rightly said, because the army was attacked by Civilians.

Never forget that there are many people who have been champing at the bit to overturn the current government and not only that... If there are dark forces at work, here, a reason can easily be invented. It also does NOT take a lot of people to do it.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by TheHunted

New Orleans was a hostile zone during that time. Crime in the city was at an all time high. People were actually sniping people off from bridges. The National Guard who was there trying to restore order were being used as target practice as well. Anybody with a weapon was a posible threat. Don't know if you ever been in a combat zone, you take nothing for granted.



You just answered your own question. We dont trust the military to defend us against our own government because you cannot see the difference between a legally armed citizen and a "hostile." You make your mind up who is a hostile or a threat based on what you are told by your leadership. You dont understand the Constitution well enough to realize that a natural disaster is not an act of war, and that disarming the legal citizens of this country because of a hurricane is unconstitutional. New Orleans was not a combat zone. It was a disaster area. There were criminals there being disorderly? Use common sense and do something about the criminals, not the law abiding citizens who could have helped to KEEP order if you didnt take an us against the citizens approach.

Thats why.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by TheHunted
 



...would he defend the people against the government?


He would follow orders. It would take an awful lot to convince a soldier that their government had become the enemy of the people. I don't blame soldiers for that, just the way it is. I had a grand-uncle who served in the SS too. He didn't think he was an evil person, or that his country and leader were wrong.





I understand what you are saying but do disagree. Soldiers are no different then you and me. I'm sure there plenty that visit ATS daily. If it came down to the government or the people they would join their friends and family to do battle.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:09 PM
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I have actually thought about this topic a lot. I have a lot of buddies that are serving right now and they are the one thing that gives me hope if the NWO ever tried and all out take over of the American people.

If its really going to happen like most people on these board agree upon, with rail cars, coffins, concentration camps, ect., the one thing I see stopping the plans that are set in motion is our soilders and law enforcement.

If there really is a super-evil force behind the curtains pulling all the strings, dont you think that when we get to the point of FEMA concentration camps our policemen and soldiers will wake up?

Can you really see these Americans rounding up people ad sending them to harm or death? There is SO much good i see in American people. You really think a solider who is stationed in Virginia where part of his family is from is going to round them all up and hit them with billy clubs? The soldiers I know would gt their brothers together and fight for the people they have been overseas protecting or the last 5 years.

Sure there are those who will follow orders no matter what but there are far more proud, pariotic, gun owning American out there for an all out takeover. If the even tried it, the next American revolution would begin.

Have faith.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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While a soldier may defend a point against domestic hostiles, a soldier is first and foremost an American.

As soldiers, we all took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And there's no time limit.

New Orleans was a stupid law enforcement determination. The soldiers weren't attacking anyone, just trying to prevent random shootings. New Orleans wasn't the most law-abiding population prior to the flood to start with. This was unlawful, and I'm not excusing it, but that was the logic of the moment. No real harm, no foul, no vision of things to come.

If I am guarding my post, and even American citizens come upon me to overun or over take me, then I'll drop them as fast as I can in the interest of self-preservation, as much as my duty to my post.

You may be able to get soldiers to do some distasteful things once or twice, but that's about it. At some point, their officers, continuing to press these unlawful, immoral orders, would be taken out by individual soldiers. Much like a jury, from many walks of life, soldiers also have a collective conscious. After a few missteps upon orders, then future contrary, destructive orders will not be followed. Not refused necessarily, just not followed.

At the end of the day, soldiers likewise determine what their duty is, and when they absolutely know an action is their duty, they are aggressive to perform that duty. When ordered to do something stupid, immoral or unlawful, they have a tendency to drag their feet and these stupid, immoral, or unlawful things don't get done according to plan.

In the event of some disaster resulting in anarchy, the military is actually my least worry. I'd be more concerned with animals. The two-legged kind.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:13 PM
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Im glad people like you are defending us Hunted. Most solider aren't dones and they can actually think for themselves.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by TheHunted



You just answered your own question. We dont trust the military to defend us against our own government because you cannot see the difference between a legally armed citizen and a "hostile." You make your mind up who is a hostile or a threat based on what you are told by your leadership. You dont understand the Constitution well enough to realize that a natural disaster is not an act of war, and that disarming the legal citizens of this country because of a hurricane is unconstitutional. New Orleans was not a combat zone. It was a disaster area. There were criminals there being disorderly? Use common sense and do something about the criminals, not the law abiding citizens who could have helped to KEEP order if you didnt take an us against the citizens approach.

Thats why.



A natural disaster turned the area into a hostile zone. The Guard was being targeted by gun fire. Its not like the hostiles were wearing uniforms or yelling hey Gaurdsman over here I'm shooting people. Theres no possible way to determine who is safe and who is not. Are woman not capable of pulling the trigger?
They didn't shoot her dead, they disarmed her. The National Guard did a great job under those conditions. They protected people from further injury...



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by TheHunted
 



I understand what you are saying but do disagree. Soldiers are no different then you and me. I'm sure there plenty that visit ATS daily. If it came down to the government or the people they would join their friends and family to do battle.


I don't think we are so much in disagreement really. A lot of people tend to think that soldiers are mindless robots, they're not.

But just as you say soldiers are just like you and me, therein lay the problem. Even among the civilian population, there are those who argue that the Constitution be shredded in the name of "safety" and the "war on terror." So it's not a matter of civilian vs. soldier at all. It is opposing ideology.



If it came down to the government or the people they would join their friends and family to do battle.


But what if their friends and family happened to be on the side of government, repression, fascism? Or were simply complacent? I know that my brother just plain old isn't interested when I talk about things like the deterioration of liberty in this country. It would take a strong leader to emerge and whip up support for what would amount to be a rebel army, filled with both civilians and former US military personnel most likely.

I happen to think that the Constitution has been thrown out the window already, and no one has bothered to do anything about it, including my brother. But I don't blame him for that. I blame public apathy. And that is fertile ground for fascism to creep in. It has happened before, and it is happening again.



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