Attention Christians and Muslims (A proposal), page 1

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Topic started on 28-9-2008 @ 08:29 AM by mr-lizard

Hi there...

I'm an athiest.

I have an idea.

To all the haters, both muslim and christian (there are others, but it seems these two religions breed people of stronger ideology, so that is why i'm addressing these main two religions).....

Here's a suggestion.

To all you Muslims out there, who are sick of defending yourselves against angry Christians who believe that you are barabaric and sexist group of people, I propose that you go visit a church for a few weeks, take a step into different water and see life through the eyes of a christian worshipper.

Also this applies to the Christians, who fear the eastern religion, why not go spend a few weeks praying at a mosque, go and immerse yourself in a different culture and keep an open mind.

Come back in a few weeks and tell me if it has made ANY difference at all.
After all, you are both praying to a single God. You both reject any other possibility of the idea of multiple gods and you both seem to consider atheists as somehow weaker people.

You both wanna defend your religions to almost any limit, you both mis-translate the opposing religion and it's getting you absolutely nowhere. In my eyes, the muslims aren't willing to accept any other religion, whilst the die hard christians seem to enjoy alienating Islam.

Put aside your differences and start working together with a degree of intelligence and calm, lay down your weapons and hold your tongues, lets start working together as humans, as opposed to the monsters that we have falsely created.

Ignore the media, let your hearts decide....

Neither of your beliefs have done anything to convince me that either side has the right idea. In my eyes you both consist of preachers, narrow minded-ness and hypocrisy.

Why put your 100% belief in something, and ignore all your other senses... why not start seeing the world as it really is and agree to put aside your differences for the greater good?

Here's hoping....

Mr L

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 09:16 AM by ZeroKnowledge

I am neither Christian nor Muslim but i hope i can add my zero cents. The conflict is not a religious now - it is geopolitical and cultural before it is religious. Religion of course plays its part in the background but it is not the main driving factor. There are areas were Christians and Muslims lived in relative peace. Then on the wake of some political instability the real fightings started. And if you will say that removing religion will remove this "background" constant potential aggression - then i want to remind you that racial , status and ton of other differences played the same background role. Religion is not the main problem. People who use it to ignite sleeping fire are.
And as for your suggestion to "merge" religions - then guess what, somebody tried this solution and the result is that all the "original" religions hate the result of the merger and consider it a heresy.
No easy solutions. Just everyone needs to take responsibility on his actions and understand that he/she will answer eventually for the blood on his hands - his own,that of infidels or just of bystanders.

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 09:35 AM by dizziedame

It is a nobel idea you propose. I wish it were that simple to solve our differences.

I believe the haters need to get closer to their religious doctrines and their God. It is through ignorance and narrow mindedness that hate survives.

I am a Christian. My religion teaches love for others. Where there is love there can be no hate.

If haters would immerse themselves in the teachings of their religions I believe we could learn to accept our differences and make our world a better place.

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 09:40 AM by SpeakerofTruth

I think your idea is noble, but honestly, as a "new age" Christian, I doubt that it would work. These two religions have been at odds for so long that I don't see any end to the conflict. I mean, it's like asking Hindus and Muslims to get along. It's not going to happen.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 09:43 AM by SpeakerofTruth

reply to post by dizziedame

Honestly, that might work for Christians if they practiced TRUE Christianity. As for the Muslims, I don't know becasue, at least to me, the Islamic faith is still based off of the whole Old Testament philosophy of an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth I don't see much love or kindness from such teachings.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 10:28 AM by babloyi

reply to post by mr-lizard

As a muslim, I've attended a christian church, listened to the sermon, and taken part in the whole 'community-togetherness' aspect of it. While it's beautiful and moving, for me it's not that much different from any other massive group of people who are in synch.

My main reason for rejection of Christianity is a pretty fundamental concept in most mainstream Christianity, so while I appreciate much of its 'peripherals', and respect it, Christianity as a whole is outside of my domain. Now, saying that, I have no real problem with Christians. While I disagree with their ideology, and believe they're not really doing things the best way, I can't deny that some christians would also possibly be having a connection to God, and I'd be the last person to wish to put them down for that.

Aside from that, I love discussion (sometimes even a little heat and anger makes me giggly...so sue me

). I'm comfortable and unshakeable enough in my faith so as to be able to discuss what some consider the squeamish details (although recently I've gotten more and more disappointed that this is all that some people wish to discuss), as well as learning about the other side.

Errr....so....I guess I'm already up for it? I suppose your post wasn't really directed to me, then.

EDIT: It's noble, not nobel! I can stand another religion fine, but spelling mistakes just piss me off

[edit on 28-9-2008 by babloyi]

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 10:50 AM by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by babloyi
EDIT: It's noble, not nobel! I can stand another religion fine, but spelling mistakes just piss me off

[edit on 28-9-2008 by babloyi]

Yeah, I guess I was thinking of the NOBEL Peace prize when I typed it.

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 11:08 AM by mr-lizard

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I think your idea is noble, but honestly, as a "new age" Christian, I doubt that it would work. These two religions have been at odds for so long that I don't see any end to the conflict. I mean, it's like asking Hindus and Muslims to get along. It's not going to happen.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

But that in itself DOES happen. India amongst many other places.
Huge muslim, sikh, christian , Buddist population (along with many others...)

So why can't the Western world deal with it?

--

Originally posted by dizziedame

I am a Christian. My religion teaches love for others. Where there is love there can be no hate.

Fair play... I appreciate that, but there are a lot of pseudo-christians out there (as with pseudo-Muslims) who take their religion and 'bend it to their own will and translation.

--

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
The conflict is not a religious now - it is geopolitical and cultural before it is religious. Religion of course plays its part in the background but it is not the main driving factor. There are areas were Christians and Muslims lived in relative peace. Then on the wake of some political instability the real fightings started. And if you will say that removing religion will remove this "background" constant potential aggression - then i want to remind you that racial , status and ton of other differences played the same background role. Religion is not the main problem. People who use it to ignite sleeping fire are.

That is all true, and of varying degrees of importance depending on which corner of the globe we are standing on, yet you speak in past terms where you speak of muslim/christian social peace. It exists still, in many parts of the world.

You speak of geopolitics, as of course in certain areas, religion plays a huge role in the political structure. The question is, is the Western world going to readily accept it? I believe that is exactly where the divide is caused. I think most westerners, like to believe that religion should be kept out of politics for many reasons, this generally works as a whole.

But then, the conflict is caused when cultures try to merge that have religious and politicial ideals that are one and the same. Is this our tolerance that is the problem, or do we see the potential for bias involved in those courts?

A hot potatoe of a subject.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
And as for your suggestion to "merge" religions - then guess what, somebody tried this solution and the result is that all the "original" religions hate the result of the merger and consider it a heresy.
No easy solutions. Just everyone needs to take responsibility on his actions and understand that he/she will answer eventually for the blood on his hands - his own,that of infidels or just of bystanders.

Okay... Who exactly will we be answering to? God? Angels? St Peter? Allah? Our Government? Someone elses Government? Who?

As i told you already, I'm an atheist.... Why?

Because I think we should answer our problems NOW... and not be cowardly enough to wait until the 'afterlife'.
This is our life. So why wait until we are dead to change things?

I'd rather bring my children up in a world where people can effectively be nice to each other, as a result of a handful of people taking the right actions....
...as opposed to a ruined, burned out, hate-filled war zone that resulted from the blind leading the blind.

We have problems, but they can be sorted. Nothing is impossible.

Thanks so far to everyone for contributing to this thread.

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 11:21 AM by Phatcat

Even if the majority of both Christians and Muslims would accept the idea and 'mingle', there'll allways be people whose power stems from the opposition, all it takes is one looney-tune to blow any progress out of the water.

And even if said looney-tunes hold back and also wish for a better world, I'm convinced the powers that be would intervene, covert, making it seem as if one side hit the other side, all over again.

Individual Christians and Muslims can try to work on it, but with all the forces arrayed against it I guess it'd be a daunting task to say the least.

And then, if and when they would have come to mutual understanding on religion, they'll find other reasons to hate and kill, and then some zealot comes along preaching it is the 'Will of God' that they exterminate each other, and the cycle starts anew.. religion is more like a moral crutch then the driving power behind violence I think.

That's just my 2 eurocents anyway

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 11:42 AM by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by mr-lizard
So why can't the Western world deal with it?

--

Well, I can't speak for the entire western hemisphere, but I can give you an idea as to why the U.S may not be able to. Have you listened to some of the rhetoric which is disseminated by some clerics? "America is the great Satan, yada, yada." Such talk is not very conducive to acceptance in the eyes of the general American public.

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 12:46 PM by ZeroKnowledge

reply to post by mr-lizard

Okay... Who exactly will we be answering to? God? Angels? St Peter? Allah? Our Government? Someone elses Government? Who?

Well i personally believe that there is a God and that there is a soul. But even those who do not - should understand that this world returns the same force that was applied on it. Person that starts something immoral should be aware that it will influence his relatives and off-springs too. Look at majority of royal dynasties - someone answered for crimes committed by those before him. Evil multiplies and comes back at its releasers. And if person has nobody and does not have any kids - then life won anyway. He is no longer there, his blood/genes are no longer influencing the species. So actions count any way.
As for idea to act and help out with constant hate - i am personally a fatalist. I really feel that the phrase "Vanity of vanities, all is vanity" describes very well all the forcible attempts to make life better - for all or just for yourself. Look at all the people who meant well and what it all caused. How many innocent suffered for their originally noble ideals? What you will do with those Christians/Muslims/others who will refuse to follow into this heaven on Earth? I think that old oath "do no harm" should be followed long enough in the approach to large groups of people/societies, and only when this principle is in the blood then actions of the "do something for the better" kind can be started.
Anyway, it is my opinion/approach. You can say that there were huge advances for humanism from cavemen till now. Of course. Are people happier now then before?
Sorry for long rant. I just really fear attempts to bring someone unwilling to "heaven" by their ears. These processes ate those unwilling, ate its founders then ate all descent people.

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 12:49 PM by queenofangels_17

reply to post by mr-lizard

Mr-Lizard,

That's an interesting proposition, and has in it the possibility of a life-changing experience, for those who will do so in the honest hope of finding the truth about God. God guides those who wills to be guided to the straight path.

As a former Catholic then Christian, studying Islam and reading the Holy Qur'an is the most life-changing step of my life. It would have been for me the Road not taken if I had not given the Holy Qur'an the chance to be heard. It made the BIG difference, one that I almost missed if I had been of the proud.

Praise be to God who awaken the spirits of those who want to serve Him with truth of heart, who makes the deaf to hear and the blind to see.

I encourage Christians and Atheists to study Islam, cast aside your preconceive notions and biases and ask God for guidance. If after studying the Holy Qur'an you find the peace that you are longing for then praise God and glorify Him for guiding you to the straight path.

006.125 And whomsoever it is Allah's will to guide, He expandeth his bosom unto the Surrender, and whomsoever it is His Will to send astray, He maketh his bosom close and narrow as if he were engaged in sheer ascent. Thus Allah layeth ignominy upon those who believe not.

For those of you who are truly seeking God, this month is the Holy month of Ramadan, the best month to seek for guidance and forgiveness from our Almighty God, the Most Merciful of all all who shows mercy.

002.185 The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion (of right and wrong). And whosoever of you is present, let him fast the month, and whosoever of you is sick or on a journey, (let him fast the same) number of other days. Allah desireth for you ease; He desireth not hardship for you; and (He desireth) that ye should complete the period, and that ye should magnify Allah for having guided you, and that peradventure ye may be thankful.

www.sacred-texts.com...

The Holy Qur'an is God's final exhortation to mankind, and this call will be heard by those who are living in this generation, who fears God and believe in the Last day.

Peace!

reply posted on 28-9-2008 @ 10:52 PM by Myrtales Instinct

Let's be real here for a moment. If I arrived in Iraq and walked into a mosque - I would probably be kindnapped and beheaded. What would happen if I up and walked into a mosque in Saudi Arabia? Some of the middle eastern countries are not very tolerant of woman, especially an American woman.

On the other hand take anyone who practices Islam and let them walk into any Christian Church in America or any Country - they may turn some heads but they would be safe.

Nice pipe dream but it wouldn't work.

reply posted on 29-9-2008 @ 05:59 AM by JesusisTruth

" sigh "

The original poster doesn't know what faith means to people.

You see say i for instance am catholic. I believe in the countless saints miracles, christ's, and I believe in the prophecies of Christ.

How can I just deny that because some hypocrites are waring with each other? You see I believe and I go about my buisness. I don't fight with muslims.

brother the ones you mention are the war machines. Hypocrites.

Jesus said and I qoute.

" blessed are the peacemakers "

" love your enemies "

" wait till death to slove our problems "

That's not what we are doing. We are waiting for death to be with god forever. who said anything about sloving problems? and that's not a reason to be an athiest. christ does solve my problems by the two qoutes I just provided.

Yet before I knew Christ I hated my enemies and didn't have alot of love in me, now he taught me to be different.

I see little understanding in the world and in these forums. very little.

peace.

reply posted on 19-10-2008 @ 03:11 PM by HIFIGUY

reply to post by mr-lizard

I find it fair that since the OP claims to be an atheist, that he also put on the shoes of those of whom he asks to see it through the eyes of another.

Faith is not a short stint vacation. A temporal experience of which one can say they have sipped and decided its not for them.

The Truth is, Jew, Muslim, and Christian, in the origins of their faiths, have heard the word of God. A calling once understood that becomes undeniable.

Extremism can be found in other places other then the faiths. In communism, or democracy. Capitalism or Socialism. Money and its acquisition.

America has it right in her constitution:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

It supports the atheist, the Christian, the Jew and the Muslim. It allows for all men within her walls to choose and come to know a higher truth on ones own accord without worry or concern of injury regarding belief. It is when those, who without appointment, become self righteous to the point of inflicting vengeance or injustice upon a fellow man, in which conflict arises.

Violence will not stand, and until this is experienced on a Global scale, America remains a bastion of premise.

Peace

[edit on 19-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

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