Police arrest UK woman for "offensive" child's toy in window

reply to post by KaginD

"It is believed that the incident was the latest in a number of previous incidents that the victim perceived to be race-related. A 38-year-old woman was arrested on suspicion of a racially-aggravated public order offence.

Source: www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk...


I think this was just the latest in a string of events that was reported, seems like she (doll owners mother)is quite the neighbour.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by blupblup]

OK, I'll concede that these things are racially offensive, but to arrest someone for having one?

I live in the US, and that would not happen here. I guess that I've been under the false impression that once European Governments became Democracies, that freedom came with it!?!?!

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by KaginD

 

"It is believed that the incident was the latest in a number of previous incidents that the victim perceived to be race-related. A 38-year-old woman was arrested on suspicion of a racially-aggravated public order offence.

Source: www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk...


I think this was just the latest in a string of events that was reported, seems like she (doll owners mother)is quite the neighbour.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by blupblup]

Well, to be fair, the word "perceived" has been used and, as such, who is to say how much of this has been in the mind of the "victim"? As nothing came of this - apart from the ludicrous taking of DNA - you could just as easily say the "victim" is "quite the neighbour".

Ultimately, the woman was arrested on suspicion but released without charge. So, she was actually innocent, and it seems there's nothing about her actually being guilty of the "previous incidents". Really, to me, it seems like the other neighbour seems to be the person who's a problem.

reply to post by Merriman Weir



Well yes perceived was used and i guess the only one who knows if it hurt or was offensive IS the victim.

This could have also been(to counter your theory) a deliberate attack on a woman because of her race in a continued campaign of hate and racism.
She could say something racist every time she see's the woman and could have deliberately left or got her kid to leave the doll in plain view...

And we won't know will we?

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Well yes perceived was used and i guess the only one who knows if it hurt or was offensive IS the victim.

This could have also been(to counter your theory) a deliberate attack on a woman because of her race in a continued campaign of hate and racism.
She could say something racist every time she see's the woman and could have deliberately left or got her kid to leave the doll in plain view...

And we won't know will we?

No, we won't know, and that's why I responded to your other post. It seemed like you'd actually decided what had happened and came to the conclusion that the woman in the article was actually guilty of something, stating "seems like she (doll owners mother)is quite the neighbour". I was just trying to point out the other possibility.

I'm in the age group that finds the whole thing very strange and almost sureal. As a child I had a 'golly' (with a dark blue face as it happened...so it probably doesnt count as racially offensive to anyone but aliens from the planet zorgon...) and I like to think I've grown up totally non racist. I remember not too many years about (about 4 at the maximum, a indoor 'stall' in the metrocenter shopping mall in gatehead here in the Uk, sold nothing but gollywogs....it stayed open for a long time and you always saw a mixture of races buying them.

What does that say? ,... well to be honest I'm not sure, sure I can see as most people can that at best, they are a relic of a bygone era and could be offensive to someone of colour. But yet again I remember the old tarzan movies on TV as a kid...the ones where the only black people had spears and bones through there noses. By rights my entire gernation should be one step away from ww2 germany, I'd hope that we're not.

My friends span a lot of religions and a lot of different colours....is it such a big deal that an arrest needs to be made if someone possess such a 'toy'? Or is it about time that we shed off the old bygone ways for good? But, on the other side of the coin, is it a case of the only people offended are the PC brigade?

I've yet to meet a black person offended by the word 'black' or a gollywog....that of course doesn't make it right, but it does hazard a few interesting questions. Exactly who are we 'protecting' here? The people we accuse of being the victim of a racist toy, or the people who think that all black people are offended so easily? From the stories I've heard from guys I know who black british, a toy is the least of the problems they've had to deal with in their lifetimes in regards to racism.

If you cut any one of us we all bleed the same colour.... is that not proof enough that beneath it all we are the same being? Or does the need for 'national pride' (which as a rule can be an excuse for racism to some) so overwelming that offence is something that isn't a 'big deal? I dont have the answers, just a hell of a lot of questions.

If one black person find these toys offensive then surely thats one to many?

Wayne...

reply to post by Merriman Weir


I agree with what your saying and i get your point.

But... the "victim", the one who reported it, obviously WAS offended and upset at the doll....and said that this isn't the first time...so whether "perceived" or not, the doll incident happened and the "victim" WAS offended.

As we are aware that the doll was seen, and this isn't (allegedly) the first time it's happened, i can hazard a guess (whether right or wrong) as to what may have been going on.

The "other possibility" as you put it, seems to indicate you think the woman is creating a fuss over nothing?

If someone is upset over racist crap that's on view for people to see.... i don't say that's "nothing"...?

One thing I love to see is the double standard here at work. I always hear from people how great England is in its progressive ways and socialist tendencies, and yet, what we are actually seeing is a police state-like country which is practically clamping down on anything that is not PC or is offensive, and actually locking up people for it.

I mean its amazing how this happens. England is already well on its way into turning into a police state, and no one notices, but in the USA people go apesh*t over the Patriot Act and claim that we are heading for a police state. At least we in the US don't have thousands of cameras all over our cities keeping track of everyone, like how they do in London. And I have not seen anyone get locked up for not being PC, or being forced to comply to PC regulations. (At least not yet to the extreme with which we see England is doing).

Any thoughts?

In response to those wondering if a similar overreaction could happen in America - the noose, a knot, has been outlawed in the state of Connecticut because of a neighbors overreaction to some Halloween decorations.

It's a wonderful little world we live in.

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

I agree with what your saying and i get your point.

But... the "victim", the one who reported it, obviously WAS offended and upset at the doll....and said that this isn't the first time...so whether "perceived" or not, the doll incident happened and the "victim" WAS offended.

As we are aware that the doll was seen, and this isn't (allegedly) the first time it's happened, i can hazard a guess (whether right or wrong) as to what may have been going on.

The "other possibility" as you put it, seems to indicate you think the woman is creating a fuss over nothing?

If someone is upset over racist crap that's on view for people to see.... i don't say that's "nothing"...?

Actually, we don't know whether the neighbour who reported it actually was genuinely offended. That's the point I'm making here with regards to your assumption that the woman with the doll is the 'nuisance neighbour'. A nuisance neighbour - and this extends beyond race - will often make false claims about another neighbour. Often there is little or no evidence to back-up the claims when it's looked into. Notice in the story that the woman wasn't actually convicted of anything. When the police looked into the case, there was nothing to actually charge her with. It's not a crime to own or sell these gollytoys in this country and it seems that there's no evidence that this woman was purposely displaying the gollytoy to cause offence.

You really don't know what the other events were either, so you can't make any assumptions there either. Unless you do of course and can link to them.

Lastly, I'm not suggesting that the neighbour was "creating a fuss over nothing" at all. I'm not entirely sure why you'd think I was saying this. I think you're misreading my posts.

Originally posted by toepick
lesson here: don't go to the police station voluntarily when asked to?

I'm not familiar with UK rights but so many rights would have been trampled on here in the US. "I'm sorry your honor, I was arrested because of a kids toy that was allegedly in my window a few days ago?"

And then asking someone to come to the Police station under false pretense and then arresting that person, is that entrapment?

Anyways, what is the exact 'crime' being committed here?

[edit on 9/20/2008 by toepick]

RULE NUMBER 1 DONT HELP THE POLICE WITH PUTTING YOU IN COURT....

reply to post by Merriman Weir



The same could be said for anything with that logic?

"maybe she wasn't really offended"...

"Maybe i didn't really steal the aftershave, i just really needed it and didnt wanna pay?"

"maybe racism is misunderstood"



Yes, the offended neighbour is just a nuisance and is clearly making the whole thing up....how dare somebody be offended by offensive racist crap like golliwogs.... what is happening to this great nation of ours....?

we should display our gollies and old-time memorabilia and tin-tin jungle story books...for they are not offensive.... merely misunderstood classics of a time when people knew no better..

But WE DO know better now huh....?

Edit to add:
I'm done because this is actually pointless.... you don't think it's racist....i do, we're never going to agree and i cannot debate a subject like this and do it without saying something i may regret.... well i can, but not right now.

Thanks, Blup



[edit on 20-9-2008 by blupblup]

PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND

When I read the article, I didnt even know what a golly doll was. But the funny thing was that after a while of digesting the story that this can only be a black doll.
When I googled there it was. A black doll.

So I dont understand. A black family that displays a white doll in their window cam be arrested too ???

Please excuse if I am politially wrong mentioning colors such as "black" and "white". But this is what this is all about. COLOURS

Maybe you noticed, the favourite colour of the police is black. In the US and Britain and many other countries.

You are all SCREWED!! DNfrigginA over a DOLL ?

I must have missed where she raped someone . ....What she didnt ?

WTF do they need DNA for ? Tell me this . I don't give a rats patute. If she put it up with a sign that said NWord go home. With a cross burning in her front yard . WTF do they need DNA for?

Seems like our country's are in a "race for the bottom" As long as one seems worse than the other . They can take whatever rights they want.

You Brits are getting out of control with all your controls. Now that the Muslims say that Mickey Mouse is bad I can see a whole lot of stores/shops/departments stores hideing this stuff because it offends some people. I always admired the Brits for being up and proper but the fear the government is instilling into you is getting out of hand. Its time for the Brits to stand up and have your voices heard. If not, then you will be your own downfall. Sorry.

I am glad she got arrested. There is nothing PC or thought police control about the incident. The woman placed a racially insulting item in her shop window. The simple test would be to imagine a stereotypical Jewish character in the place of the golly wog. If that causes offence then the golly wog is offensive as well.

Good riddance of bad rubbish.

So its ok to own a white doll and display it anywhere you like BUT the moment a black doll is placed on display its Racist and offensive so the person who complains is also racist because this person is saying you can't have this black doll displayed in the window but a white one is fine so this person is distinguishing between black and white and making an issue of it.

Also i will not use the word as it is deemed racist but you can probably guess what word im talking about..

a black guy/girl can call a member of there own race ***** and its fine BUT when i white person uses the same word it is RACIST therefore is that not racism in its self ?

and the police are enforcing this racism too on behalf of the racist person putting in the complaint !!!

its about time people of all race's put down the chip on there shoulder and ignored stupid words because after all there only words. i see a lot of post's all over the net on websites stating "stupid American" using the same logic isn't that racist, but you don't see any americans standing up shouting your a racist do you...

/Rant mode off

Originally posted by blupblup
If someone is upset over racist crap that's on view for people to see.... i don't say that's "nothing"...?

What defines "racist crap". I am offended by lots of things, but that does not mean I expect the people to be arrested. For instance here there are numerous Black Organizations that publically and openly claim to be specifically for the benefit of Black people only.

Does that offend me? Well it certainly annoys me, especially because as a white person if I dared start such an organization and put "white" in the name it would be labeled a "hate group".

If those black organizations really make me feel bad about my race perhaps they need to stop their public messages immediately or risk criminal prosecution for aggravating racial tension and offending people that are excluded because of their race.

Fair is fair.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by masonwatcher
I am glad she got arrested. There is nothing PC or thought police control about the incident. The woman placed a racially insulting item in her shop window.

It is obvious you spewed your misguided opinion out BEFORE reading the article. Or maybe you don't need to read it? You just "know" she must be guilty without any of the facts in the story?

Hmm...our cops are insane over here. this is just stupid... theres people out doing the real crimes and the police aint bothered.. they just wanna pick on a mother over a stupid doll... what the heck?

i'm not awful surprised though.