Pope tells the dying to endure suffering

I really dont think much of this pope. He just has an air of evilness about him. A bit like in the film 'little nicky' with the bad preist, lol

reply to post by VIKINGANT


no its not dogma, its called knowing from experience.

reply to post by namehere


So you have been on your death bed with an incurable illness in mind numbing agony waiting and praying for your final breath to come but held out because the gift of life is more important to you than the peace death will bring?

You can go with "dignity".....I will go with a gallon of Jack and a bottle of Oxy If I was in that much pain.

My dad died a horrible death in 1979 from cancer. The priest at the hospital in New Orleans told him to go without morphine as penance for his wrong doings on earth in order to go to heaven quicker after his death. In other words pay for your sins now.

My father had been to Vietnam 2x and I think he felt he had things to atone for so he did this. He was in horrible pain. My brother finally went out and grabbed a DR. by the shirt collar and said give him pain meds. The DR. said he refuses, there is nothing we can do. My brother who is 6'5" convinced the DR. to give him the morphine.

I am Catholic and while I don't care for Pope Benedict, I understand their philosophy but I think it sucks and is wrong. When I die I want to go out in a blaze of glory as high (or comfortable for lack of a better word) as I can be. I don't want to know. Just my 2 cents.

Pope Benedict gives me a very uneasy feeling. I don't why. The red shoes don't help.

With my research he and JP2 were in on icing JP1. Who was going to do a major house cleaning.

Originally posted by jpm1602
With my research he and JP2 were in on icing JP1. Who was going to do a major house cleaning.

Ooooh, tell me more! Have you posted this before or is this the first mention here?

Bravo to your brother during that horrible time seejan. There is nothing I hate worse than needless suffering. For God's sake we take care of our pets better than that.reply to post by seejanerun

Hi kiwi I spent two days internet research on the death of JP1. I had a wild hair.

Google JP1. Off the top of my head this is what I remember. He was loved in Rome because of his Italian heritage.

The vatican fire dept was called out to retrieve a 500 page report of finances that he whipped out a window.

He wouldn't play ball with the ptb or mafia. Days later he was murdered. Digitoxin poisoning in his tea is the most likely cause.

No autopsy was performed. And other strange things regarding his hurrid transition to the mausaleum I cannot remember.

60 percent of Italians polled believe he was murdered.

Vatican press attempted to smear him. Saying he used tobacco etc which was not true.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
What concerns me is WHY - with all that is going on in the world - does he feel this is so important to the big picture that he needs to clarify the church's position?

Does he know something we don't? Are a whole lot of people going to face death soon?

I'm Catholic and I'm just asking...

I think maybe he's seeing the stock markets falling and oil prices going up and remembers the Great Depression. They say that people committed suicide in mass during this time in our history.

There is also Africa, parts of South America, parts of Malaysia, parts of China, all over the world really - That has to be hell to live there.
Anyway, he is just reminding us that we are here under God's will. It is up to God when we die and only he knows the hour.

To kill yourself causes chaos in the order of life. I happen to agree with the Pope on this one. God feels our pain and our grief and he feels it on a personal level.

If anyone has ever read any of my posts you know that I am usually an agnostic.

I have recently had some things make me see that we are here for a devine purpose. I believe in devine intervention now. I believe that we are here to learn lessons to enhance our souls. We are not privy to that information right now. I am now a firm believer in God and his love for us.

My life has just changed and now I see how lost I have been.

So GOD is going to give you a extra brownie if you endure your pain and suffering before you wink out?? they make it sound like it will make a BIG difference. If and when that time comes for me and I have a choice, I choose the easy road LOL the path of least resistance. Any different your a fool.

Don't get me wrong. Penance and suffering has there place. I'd rather endure it naturally than to have someone come along and say I need to suffer.

They better be out out of armreach. My thought of an Almighty God would not let his children agonize on the tarmac for his pleasure.

reply to post by WatchNLearn


Not because he inspired fear. He was called this because he is like a guardian of the Church he calls home. Being stubborn does not make you evil. He used his brains and stood up against those who acted unjustly within and out of the Catholic Church. Research post Vatican-II Church and see the changes. One piece of evidence that is contrary does not define an entire group as evil. The Iquisition was not designed with torture and death in mind (remember news traveled slowly). When the high ups in the Church heard what was happening in several countries around Europe, they told them to quit, and quit now. No Jesuits, no Illuminati. A simple scandal of the church that killed several thousand. The Spanish inquisition was simply persecution of Jews and Moors and was a state/ puppet church act in Spain. The other inquisitions were within the church and sought to seek out heretics within the faith itself. Check out instead the Protestant witch burnings and the numbers killed there.

Originally posted by Demandred

*sigh* i wish people would first reaserch alittle into the catholic faith before posting....

He isnt imposing "his" laws, he is advocating for what we were told by Jesus suicide is considered an injustice towards god, as he has given us the gift of life, we shouldnt squander this gift

What about the folks who leaped off window ledges to escape the inferno of 911?? Should the doomed have fried enduring the pain of burning jet fuel...?? or should they have jumped?? "Suicide or Salvation" You make the flesh melting call!

life has become too cheap in this day and age, babies are habitually murdered because people cant show some moral constraint, is it wrong to try to remind people to value life no matter the adversity?

You are right... life has become too cheap, babies are uselessly murdered because 9 out of 10 times mothers don't have common sense to apply a check list of prevention.

I guess to hush years of pedofile fiasco's and empty pew's the Pope has conveniently transformed himself into a weed smoking, open minded, Starchild... All this after having secrect catacomb meetings with the Build-a-burgers and illuminati to add the Catholic faiths two-cents about "How to crash the worlds economy."

[edit on 17-9-2008 by Level X]

Originally posted by VIKINGANT
He then goes on to pray for the sick and dieing. If this prayer does prolong a persons life does this not also have potential to conflict with the will of god?

I like this point the best. He tells them that they must endure the suffering of death through sickness I'm assuming, since a fast death would invoke no suffering. Then he prays for them?

If he's praying for them to live longer then he's causing them to suffer longer, wouldn't that be a form of passive-aggressive torture?

If he's praying for them feel no suffering, then what is the point of his message? Why pray for less or no suffering when we're supposed to endure it anyhow.

On an ending note. Prayer has never been proven to do anything but make people lazy, inactive, not willing to take the true initiative and solve a real problem and to delude people's minds.

If you disagree with this it's most likely because you pray and are offended and because your mind is thus deluded. You're not feeding the starving kids in Africa nor are you ending genocide with prayer.

reply to post by VIKINGANT


without sounding preachy

thats one of the good things about the catholic faith we believe there is always redemption, and to say everyone burns in hell or ends up in purgatory for doing something bad or committing suicide is wrong, no one can judge another person except god, the pope does nothing more than represent the will of god, he cant command us to do anything. he can advise us in matters of spirituality but in the end even the pope understands that we were born with free will and choose our own paths as god intended for us to do.

you take what you want from life and pay for it.

wether someone on a machine is punnished for his decision to die before the time god intended is between that person and god, you could also argue that god had already called that person to him and it is medical technology thwarting gods design by keeping them alive longer than they were supposed to be.

maybe its a test from god i dont know the will of god, maybe i can ask him when i meet him

Peace.

reply to post by Level X

What about the folks who leaped off window ledges to escape the inferno of 911?? Should the doomed have fried enduring the pain of burning jet fuel...?? or should they have jumped??

thats one of the images burned into my brain from the whole 9/11 incedent, it isnt my place to decide were they end up, in believeing in a benevolent god who is forgiving and loving i suspect they found salvation.

technically you could also say that they were murdered even though they jumped, if it wasnt for the circumstances that led to them jumping in all probability they would still be alive today.

I guess to hush years of pedofile fiasco's and empty pew's the Pope has conveniently transformed himself into a weed smoking, open minded, Starchild

its an issue i have never agreed with the church on and its in part the cause of my estrangement from the institution, although i still call mysef a catholic i still think there needs to be more done to fix this situation. i understand that we as a catholic are supposed to forgive and god will punnish those who commited these offenses but to allow these people to continue their service within the community when they know they prey on the innocent is reprehensible.

[edit on 17-9-2008 by Demandred]

Originally posted by seejanerun
My dad died a horrible death in 1979 from cancer. The priest at the hospital in New Orleans told him to go without morphine as penance for his wrong doings on earth in order to go to heaven quicker after his death. In other words pay for your sins now.

this was wrong and that preist should never have made that statment.

as far as im aware there is nothing wrong in easing the suffering of a dying person.

Jesus suffered and died for our sins so we do not have to

reply to post by Demandred


I respect a person who can see the evil and cover-up's in their own faith