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Pope tells the dying to endure suffering

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posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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Pope tells the dying to endure suffering


www.baltimorenews.net

Pope Benedict XVI has told ailing pilgrims at Lourdes in France that people must accept death at 'the hour chosen by God.'

At the shrine that attracts the desperately ill and dying, the pope’s speech was seen as being anti-euthanasia.

The pope urged the ailing to remember that 'dignity never abandons the sick person.'

He said: 'Unfortunately we know only too well that the endurance of suffering can lead people to despair of the meaning and value of life.'

The pope said in his homily that the ill should pray to find 'the grace to accept, without fear or bitterness, to leave this world at the hour chosen by God.'
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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That is nice of him...I hope he never has to endure a painful death, but if he did, how long would it take to change his mind? Or to see a close loved one go through something like this?

He must know how so many people hang of the word of the Pope so he is willing to make countless people suffer for the will of god.

He then goes on to pray for the sick and dieing. If this prayer does prolong a persons life does this not also have potential to conflict with the will of god?

www.baltimorenews.net
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 09:56 PM
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When it gets down to the individual, in the worst of the pain, that speech will be forgotten. Whether or not they choose to endure for god will be completely up to their core fundamental beliefs, even if they try and follow pope for a bit, they'll give in if they don't agree with it somewhere inside of them. Some things are built in to us stronger than any institution



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 09:58 PM
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Can you imagine the same pope saying we should welcome our brothers from outer space?


I rest my case.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by VIKINGANT
 


With all due respect, Vikingant, this isn't exactly news. No one who knows anyting about the Pope or the Catholic Church should find the Pope's stance on euthanasia at all surprising.

You're basically calling him a hypocrite by saying that he would opt to end his own suffering before death while using his authority to convince followers to endure the painful ends of their lives. I ask you, on what grounds do you make such an accusation? Do you really think that the Pope would choose to commit suicide rather than tough it out? That's a pretty big assumption.

After all, the man is still alive so we have no idea what he will do when his time comes.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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This should come as no surprise, after all, he is just showing his Nazi roots, and we all know how compassionate the Nazis were...



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by WatchNLearn
 


I'm sorry, but that was absolutely unneccessary for the integrity of this discussion and of AboveTopSecret. Do you really think that he had any choice when the Hitler Youth was made to be required for all "Aryan" children to be a part of it?

On the real topic at hand, the reason he says this is because it is meant to act as an emulation of what Jesus did. As in Jesus got scourged, beat down, etc. Going through more pain as he died than any normal human could handle.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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sc2099,
I am not accusing him of anything. Just stating my point of view. He may or may not commit suicide in a similar situation, but without having experienced it himself how can he (or anyone for that matter) make judgement for others?
Not wanting to start a debate better suited elswhere, but to call him a hypocrite would not be far from the thruth IMO. For someone to tell others how to manage thier sex lives when he has none or to tell people how to deal with thier suffering he has evidently not experienced pain like these people have, not to mention countless other 'laws' he imposes without first hand experience.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:35 PM
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My Mom once tongue in cheek said I was going to die hard. Her prophesy was correct.

I watched the 911 victims leap to their deaths than endure 2000 deg farenheit burning jet fuel. And I wonder to myself, what really is the intrinsic difference?



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by VIKINGANT

Pope tells the dying to endure suffering


www.baltimorenews.net


The pope urged the ailing to remember that 'dignity never abandons the sick person.'


I wonder how one can maintain dignity when someone else is bathing you, feeding you, wiping your bum , wiping, feeding, clothing, cleaning...???

I don't like this one iota.



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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*sigh* i wish people would first reaserch alittle into the catholic faith before posting....


he isnt imposing "his" laws, he is advocating for what we were told by Jesus

suicide is considered an injustice towards god, as he has given us the gift of life, we shouldnt squander this gift



The authoritative Catechism of the Catholic Church (paragraphs 2280-2283) makes the following points about suicide:
"Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of."
"Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God."
"If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal."
"Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law."
"Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide."
"We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives."


Catholic Encyclopedia

life has become too cheap in this day and age, babies are habitually murdered because people cant show some moral constraint, is it wrong to try to remind people to value life no matter the adversity?



posted on Sep, 16 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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Having worked in the health care sector for 23 yrs, finding myself in a state run nursing home would be a fate worse than death.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by spec_ops_wannabe
I'm sorry, but that was absolutely unneccessary for the integrity of this discussion and of AboveTopSecret. Do you really think that he had any choice when the Hitler Youth was made to be required for all "Aryan" children to be a part of it?



Well tell me why Joseph Ratzinger was popularly known as "God's Rottweiler" when he was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith — the Vatican ministry that once ran the Inquisition.

One does not earn a nickname like God's Rottweiler unless you have a reputation for visciousness and inspiring fear.

I feel sorry for someone like you who has obviosly been misguided as to this man's true nature and the truth really does hurt doesn't it...




posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by Demandred
 


First of all, congratulations on actually quoting the Catechism instead of just stating "Read the Catechism!"

Now to requote it what you have pointed out...


"Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide."
"We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives."


The way I see this section, one who does tae thier own life due to "psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture" has diminished responsibility which is understandable for obvious reasons. It then says God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. It does not say any person that takes thier own life is sentanced immediately to the pits of Hell.

Finally

is it wrong to try to remind people to value life no matter the adversity?

What value of life is there hooked up to a machine or writhing in agony day in and day out?



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 01:31 AM
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They all iced JP1. More than likely the greatest pope we ever had. I trust these bastards like I trust a rattlesnake in my bed.

Weeks later the vatican bank/mafioso expose came to pass.

No wonders here.

[edit on 9/17/2008 by jpm1602]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 01:42 AM
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What concerns me is WHY - with all that is going on in the world - does he feel this is so important to the big picture that he needs to clarify the church's position?

Does he know something we don't? Are a whole lot of people going to face death soon?

I'm Catholic and I'm just asking...



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 01:48 AM
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Excellent question cosmic.

One I hadn't thought of. Behold and endure your suffering. What does that actually mean indeed.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 01:59 AM
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Lourdes in France is nothing but a money making business.. if he thinks it gives people false hope why dont he close it..



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by VIKINGANT
What value of life is there hooked up to a machine or writhing in agony day in and day out?


As much as with a life without such things, the weak of spirit give up when it gets hard.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by kosmicjack
 


I agree with JPM. I never thought about it that way. especially since we are to accept 'ET' as our brother like dgtempe pointed out.
Are we expecting a "V" type invasion? Is the pope really reptilian as they say? Thats is enough of that. Some people dont need unnecessary encouragement.


Seriously though. Why now, since as has also been pointed out, this has been the Catholic stance for a long time now. Is there something in the timing or just a general reminder?


Originally posted by namehere
As much as with a life without such things, the weak of spirit give up when it gets hard.


Really?!?!?

Existing out of your head in pain or on pain killers, not knowing who,where or even what you are is better than death?
Can anyone here spell Dogma?

[edit on 17/9/2008 by VIKINGANT]



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