Jessie Ventura attempts to debate a Firefighter at a Memorial on 911

Originally posted by infinityoreilly


Coward? Another shot at his credibility, and another notch down on my respect meter for your side of this debate. This is simply a personal attack on ThroatYogurts part.

I'm trying see why this thread is allowed to continue to bash "truthers", maybe TY is allowed more freedom than others here on ATS.

You question my credibility...funny... you have never once pointed out where I have lied. Please feel free to do so.

Infinity.. your "notches" are not worth the sweat off my armpits. I do not care what you think of my credibility. I am attacking his actions. His actions were cowardice (IMO).

Thank you,

-TY-

Originally posted by harvib


I will ask again. How is anyone able to tell what exactly occurred. How is it that everyone is assuming that this was not a mutual conversation that we are just hearing the tail end of. Why are we not hearing the clip in its entirety. How are you able to state this firefighter was ambushed? There is nothing in the clip to indicate that one way or the other.

Well said! I asked the same question on like page 2 of this thread. Apparently, no one wants to look at this objectively, they just want to assume Jesse ambushed him.

Well if TY and everyone can just make assumptions, then I'll make one:

Seeing as how Jesse was invited to the event to expound upon his beliefs on 9-11, and he was there to answer people's questions to him, I can assume this firefighter ambushed Jesse with a question, and then couldn't handle the answer.

I don't see why my interpretation is any less valid than TY's. The truth is we don't know (see harvib's post above). All this thread is showing me is just how far people are willing to reach to prove their points.

Originally posted by harvib

I will ask again. How is anyone able to tell what exactly occurred. How is it that everyone is assuming that this was not a mutual conversation that we are just hearing the tail end of. Why are we not hearing the clip in its entirety. How are you able to state this firefighter was ambushed? There is nothing in the clip to indicate that one way or the other.

Let's assume it was a friendly conversation. It was Jessie that was there with an agenda. Go read the Prison Planet article.

The firefighter did not take the bait.

Further more regardless of what you feel happened on 9/11 and who was responsible to call Mr. Ventura a coward, I feel is, is unwarranted.

You have a right to your opinion sir. I have to disagree.

Whether he is right or wrong he seems to feel that our Government committed a horrible act against its own citizens. He obviously is being diligent in adhering to the ideology of our founding Fathers who spoke of dissention against ones own Government a duty when believed that one's Government is no longer committed to it's citizens best interest. This is what Mr. Ventura appears to be doing and to call someone a coward for doing their duty as a citizen???

He brings accusations WITHOUT EVIDENCE!!!

Seems to feel? Well, I seem to feel you are a child molester. (not seriously)

How does that make you feel? I have offered zero proof to back this up...I just "seem to feel" that way.

Again, there is NOTHING wrong with questioning your government. This was not the time and or the place.

reply to post by Grambler


Listen again Grambler. Ther firefighter stated that he did not want to get into a debate.


edit to add:

"I choose not to be involved in any kind of controversy over 9/11, sir" said Marshall.

The firefighter also said he doesn't like it when people use 9/11 for political or commercial reasons. "I think it's quite disgusting actually."

"It should be a day of remembrance. Not politicking, not benefiting. Any of those things are quite appalling to me." He says he doesn't want to be involved in conspiracy theories.

Marshall says he was at the memorial to remember his fallen brothers and sisters - not to argue conspiracy theories.

www.ktar.com...


[edit on 15-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
He brings accusations WITHOUT EVIDENCE!!!

You mean just like you and the other believers all do?

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

He brings accusations WITHOUT EVIDENCE!!!

I disagree. He is constantly presenting what he believes to be evidence. Weather he is right or wrong on the validity of the evidence does not discount the fact that he is doing his due diligence according to what he believes.

Seems to feel? Well, I seem to feel you are a child molester. (not seriously)

How does that make you feel? I have offered zero proof to back this up...I just "seem to feel" that way.

Oh jeez. An analogy. Fine I will fight fire with fire.

First off he is offering what he feels to be proof.

And second (here is the fire) if you discovered that I had a basement that was made to appeal to children, along with children’s toys, etc. But I did not have any kids of my own nor any nieces or nephews, would it be appropriate for someone to call you a coward for trying to ask questions on something that just doesn't seem right?

Originally posted by harvib


I disagree. He is constantly presenting what he believes to be evidence. Weather he is right or wrong on the validity of the evidence does not discount the fact that he is doing his due diligence according to what he believes.

Do you see anything wrong with this statement?? If you are going to make accusations of mass murder, you should come prepared. He does not.

Oh jeez. An analogy. Fine I will fight fire with fire.

First off he is offering what he feels to be proof.

And second (here is the fire) if you discovered that I had a basement that was made to appeal to children, along with children’s toys, etc. But I did not have any kids of my own nor any nieces or nephews, would it be appropriate for someone to call you a coward for trying to ask questions on something that just doesn't seem right?

Nice try... if you had evidence like what we found in your basment, that would be one thing. There were no toys in the Whitehouse basement. (no, molten metal is not a toy)

Again... what he feels? He is making an incredible accusation. He needs to back it up with facts...not what he feels.

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

If you are going to make accusations of mass murder, you should come prepared. He does not.

This is what you believe. Others would disagree with you. In my opinion he seems to be very prepared to discuss what he sees as proof.

Again... what he feels? He is making an incredible accusation. He needs to back it up with facts...not what he feels.

He does present facts, he mentioned the color of the smoke. The conclusion he came to may be arguable but none the less are you really suggesting that when one has what they see as evidence of mass murder that they should not speak out or at least not speak out until they are able to present an unarguable testimony?

Originally posted by harvib

This is what you believe. Others would disagree with you. In my opinion he seems to be very prepared to discuss what he sees as proof.

I have yet to see him offer ANY evidence to back up his accusations.

are you really suggesting that when one has what they see as evidence of mass murder that they should not speak out or at least not speak out until they are able to present an unarguable testimony?

yes.

Go back to our analogy. Someone sees you hugging a small child.....

Would you want people to accuse you of pedophilia? The person making that accusation had no idea that was your neice.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

LGM... try staying on topic please. Do you have anything to add regarding Jessie Ventura?

I was the one derailed by your friend the rabid plunger holder, tell him to not troll and stay on topic please.

On topic: Why would you call Jesse a coward, he may not be the brightest bulb and come across a lout but I would not call him a coward. He does speak the truth in some instances though.

Please Mr. Yogurt can you show me some proof that the government conspiracy theory has more proof than the peoples conspiracy theory?

I mean hard proof, not the NIST report that is a theory too. Not what the governments account was because that also does not have solid proof. I would like to see some solid proof.

reply to post by LoneGunMan


Perhaps you should review my 1st post on this thread again, Lonelywolf:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

As you can see, the very next post is where you derailed this thread, trying to correct my grammar, where no correction was needed.

No need to lie, when we can clearly see what was said...

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

I have yet to see him offer ANY evidence to back up his accusations.

Listen to a radio interview with him. He presents it. Now whether you accept it or not is up to you. We are all are own judge.

yes.

Go back to our analogy. Someone sees you hugging a small child.....

Would you want people to accuse you of pedophilia? The person making that accusation had no idea that was your neice.

Now this view is scary. If someone believes someone else to be a pedophile I hope they will not agree with your view of allowing a child to possibly be raped because they are taking into account the feelings of a potential pedophile. I would hope the accuser would present their evidence.


[edit on 15-9-2008 by harvib]

reply to post by LoneGunMan


LoneGunman...

This thread is regarding Jessie and his disgusting cowardice act on 9/11/08.

I would be more than happy to discuss any topics regarding 911, but please keep this thread with Jessie and his "proof".

Thank you!

-TY-

Originally posted by harvib

Listen to a radio interview with him. He presents it. Now whether you accept it or not is up to you. We are all are own judge.

Please list some of the evidence Mr. Ventura claims to have. Perhaps we can figure out if it hold water.

Now this view is scary. If someone believes someone else to be a pedophile I hope they will not agree with your view of allowing a child to possibly be raped because they are taking into account the feelings of a potential pedophile. I would hope the accuser would present their evidence.

that is NOT my view. I am saying that if you are going to accuse someone... you need to (in your words) : I would hope the accuser would present their evidence.

Mr. Ventura does not.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to post by Grambler

 

Listen again Grambler. Ther firefighter stated that he did not want to get into a debate.


edit to add:

"I choose not to be involved in any kind of controversy over 9/11, sir" said Marshall.

The firefighter also said he doesn't like it when people use 9/11 for political or commercial reasons. "I think it's quite disgusting actually."

"It should be a day of remembrance. Not politicking, not benefiting. Any of those things are quite appalling to me." He says he doesn't want to be involved in conspiracy theories.

Marshall says he was at the memorial to remember his fallen brothers and sisters - not to argue conspiracy theories.

www.ktar.com...


[edit on 15-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

He said this after the fact though. He seems at the beginning of the audio clip to be quite willing to discuss the issue. He also seems in the quote above to be quite against "conspiracy theories" and people discussing them on a day of remembrance. Is it not possible then that he approached Jesse to let him know that? I mean, he apparently was willing to give an interview with a reporter afterwards, so it seems as if he would have been willing to at least discuss the issue somewhat.

Now before you accuse me of belittling a hero, keep in mind I don't know what happened. What I have is an audio clip, that is the end of a conversation. We don't know how this conversation started, or who started it. What we do know is the man started off discussing it with Jesse, and when he asked him to stop, Jesse politely did. You are entitled to whatever opinion you want, but to assert Jesse ambushed the man with no proof is disingenuous, and speaks volumes of your character.

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

Please list some of the evidence Mr. Ventura claims to have.

Ventura explained that he worked in demolitions when he was in the Navy and questioned how the buildings could fall at the rate of gravity.

“That a third building could fall into its own footprint five hours later having not been struck by much of anything….the 9/11 Commission didn’t even address the issue.

Ventura then pointed out that kerosene does not burn hot enough to melt steel girders and asked why the buildings came down as powder and not in big chunks

Perhaps we can figure out if it hold water.

No thanks. That is beyond the scope of this thread. There are endless debates that attempt to do the same thing.

You called him a coward. I challenged that assertion stating he is just doing his duty as a citizen based on what he sees as evidence. You stated he does not present evidence, I have now listed a few I found by doing a simple Google search.

I am not interested in discussing if his evidence qualifies as proof as I am not qualified to have such a discussion. I do however support individuals that have what they see as evidence for heinous crimes to not withhold such views, opinions, or facts out of fear of being called a coward.

reply to post by harvib


Thank you harvib. If your post represents what Mr Ventura believes, then it proves he does not know what he is talking about.

1. The buildings fell at the speed of gravity.

We know from numerous videos, seismographic readings and other evidence that NONE of the three buildings fell at the "speed of gravity".

2. That the third building could fall without being hit by much of anything

We know from the FDNY, video, pictorial and other evidence that WTC 7 got clobbered by WTC 1.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

3. The kerosene doesnt burn hot enough to melt steel, the concrete was dust.

We also know that the steel didnt have to melt, it just had to get hot enough to corrupt the structural integrity, which IS within the temp range of a jet fuel fire. As for the concrete, there are plenty of witness statements about the chunks of concrete in the wreckage, and yes, quite a bit of it was pulverized but it wasnt all powder.

In other words, Jesse Ventura seems to be once again talking out his butt.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

Thank you harvib. If your post represents what Mr Ventura believes, then it proves he does not know what he is talking about.

not what I was discussing. He was being called a coward for voicing his concerns over his government. There are plenty of other threads to try to prove or disprove his theory. Tell me he is wrong fine, I won't debate you as I am not qualified. But tell me he is a coward and I take issue.

reply to post by harvib


Braggart, truth stretcher, bad actor, but coward..nah. However, I think what he did with the firefighter was assinine and in exceptionally poor taste. Of course, all those years wearing the pink boa....I guess we know his taste sucks.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

I think what he did with the firefighter was assinine and in exceptionally poor taste.

What did he do? You have the tail end of a conversation. What are you gathering that you believe to be assinine? I keep playing the clip thinking maybe I am hearing a diffrent version then the rest of you. As far as I can tell there is no way to put the conversation in context. What are you hearing that I am not?