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Jessie Ventura attempts to debate a Firefighter at a Memorial on 911

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posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by justamomma

HOWEVER, I think you are one of the few on this site that I have seen ask some VERY valid questions.. questions that often seem to be ignored because ppl are too busy trying to distract from them by NOT using common sense and looking at facts concerning the events.


So, why do you suppose it is, as a believer as you are, that his very valid questions stay so unanswerd and deflected from?




posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999



TY, and Swampfox and crew are just here doing there jobs. Spreading disinfo as always.


No, no, no. How many times must I tell you, I am here to spread hate, discontent, and paranoia.

Must work too. You and others like you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about little ole me.



Wow I didn't know you were part of a crew??? So let me get this straight....You are part of a CREW of government paid disinfo agents who have infiltrated some little conspiracy theory website and try to convince a bunch of D&D playing, mountain dew drinking, video game playing, paranoid people, which I am part of, that what they believe is wrong? Our government must really fear these people to spend all this time and money on just one sight?? Oh wait, you must also have other disinfo agents posting on the millions of other sites on the web to perform the same function.....but wait, how can that be because that would mean there are 10's of millions of disinfo agents currently doing this. But that's a significant amount of the entire US population and not one has a friend or family member that they've told or leaking info to? Wow that's incredible !!! Almost unbelievable !!! No wait it IS unbelievable


Oh crap, now I'm going to be accused of being a disinfo agent for daring to go against the "truthers". I just can't win




[edit on 17-9-2008 by jfj123]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 06:17 AM
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Jesse was just asking questions like everyone else and he respected the firefighter. If the firefighter didn't want to debate it then he has that right. I actually still respect Jesse and all the firefighters.
Jesse was at the memorial to give his respect to those who were lost that dreadful day and I respect him for that. I also would want any of those brave firefighters by my side if something like that happened again. All who died that day have my blessings and I will miss them even though I didn't know them personally.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741HOWEVER, I think you are one of the few on this site that I have seen ask some VERY valid questions.. questions that often seem to be ignored because ppl are too busy trying to distract from them by NOT using common sense and looking at facts concerning the events.


So, why do you suppose it is, as a believer as you are, that his very valid questions stay so unanswerd and deflected from?

As I have stated, I was not there and there is the beginning of this particular conversation that I did not hear.

If it had been me and I had started the conversation w/ Mr. Ventura and I did not know the answer, I would have said so and upon getting home, would have researched it.

In fact, I did go research the nature of smoke due to this thread and found out that the smoke we saw coming from the buildings was not out of character with the fire that was going on INSIDE the building. One of the #1 things that firefighters are supposed to be taught while in training is that what you can see from the outside doesn't necessarily speak for what you are NOT seeing.

I also listened more carefully to what Mr. Ventura was saying to the fireman's response and realized that even HE (Jesse) wasn't all too sure himself, but kind of went in a different direction which could explain why an expert in the topic of smoke decided that to continue with the conversation was pointless, much as I have been realizing that having discussions with some of you will be pointless.

My only real intent with my responses in this thread was to say that calling TY an agent of disinfomation is a show that some ppl are dogmatic in their views. Just as I would not call you someone who spreads around disinformation bc of your questioning the official story (which in and of itself is not wrong, but actually a good thing so long as one is willing to be unbiased in their investigation and not dogmatic to a certain view from the get go), I feel it is unfair that ridiculous accusations are being thrown at TY simply bc of his views.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by Solarskye
Jesse was at the memorial to give his respect to those who were lost that dreadful day and I respect him for that.


Thats where you are mistaken. His intentions were not there to give any respect. That is the issue I have with him.

Yes, I do think Mr. Ventura DID take the high road AFTER it was stated to him by the firefighter. So, I will give him credit for respecting the mans wishes.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Jesse wasn't arguing he was merely pointing out a serious problem.. the minute the firefighter got cornered on that he backed out.. Many firefighters I know beleive somthing is terribly wrong with what happened and the complete truth is not being shown.. I see nothing wrong with what jesse did... if anything out of respect for the dead why wouldn't you want to get to the truth of what caused it? Compare this to the propaganda shown at the RNC... now that was distasteful and a complete abuse of the 911 victims.. being used for political purposes now thats a disgrace and immoral.. asking for the truth is moral.

[edit on 17-9-2008 by thefreepatriot]



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 


Exactly my point.. the op totally blew that "debate" out of proportion.. the firefighter willingly got into in the beginning.. nothing wrong with two consenting adults willing to speak.. unless the op has a problem with people wanting to talk.. Now if jesse was badgering him into speaking then thats another story.. but this was not the case.. this thread is a waste



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by thefreepatriot
this thread is a waste


Yet you posted on it.

Thanks for your contribution.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


Trust me, I have not called anyone a disinfo agent because of their views. I call them a disinfo agent for the threads they start and the posts they leave. Massive fires in building 7? Nope, not in the thread with that title there wasnt. An exact match to the crash scene in PA, proving plane crashes look like that? No, there is a complete tail section and pieces of plane. Sorry, not an exact match to F93 is it? After reading evey one of his posts and threads, I can certainly conclude that there is a pattern of thread titles meant to break down the opposition but so far, they all lack the actual proof that is claimed in each title. He has offered nothing in the way of proof or substance to back up his pro-government story. That is more than enough to decide someone is a disinfo agent. If it were simply his views, then I am certain that I would have called all 'debunkers' disingo agents but I did not did I? You however did just as good a job of avoiding a simple, thoughtful question. You were asked something that may have actually made you think or reveal the push behind your empty defense, but instead you just deflected it. I am happy to see any real proof of any of these things TY has claimed. I just cannot help but think that in any of these long threads about this stuff, that would be the place to put that proof. So far...I am still waiting.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt

Originally posted by Solarskye
Jesse was at the memorial to give his respect to those who were lost that dreadful day and I respect him for that.


Thats where you are mistaken. His intentions were not there to give any respect. That is the issue I have with him.

Yes, I do think Mr. Ventura DID take the high road AFTER it was stated to him by the firefighter. So, I will give him credit for respecting the mans wishes.




CASE IN POINT:

So, yougurt knows exactly what someone's intentions are? Wow, noone on earth is capable of proving anyone's intentions about anything ever but him. Amazing man you are. Then you admit that he was respectful, actually cancelling out the thread title, subject, and point. Wow, so what you offer is your "knowledge" of JV's intentions yet, have to admit that he was actually respectful. How many pages after an OP that states otherwise?

MMMMMMMMMMM that is some good reliable truth huh.



posted on Sep, 17 2008 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by thefreepatriot
reply to post by Solarskye
 


Exactly my point.. the op totally blew that "debate" out of proportion.. the firefighter willingly got into in the beginning.. nothing wrong with two consenting adults willing to speak.. unless the op has a problem with people wanting to talk.. Now if jesse was badgering him into speaking then thats another story.. but this was not the case.. this thread is a waste


This is America, how dare you seek justice and the truth for the dead.
This is America, how dare you speak freely your mind in public.
I totally see what TY means now. People have no right to just walk around in public expressing themselves or seeking out the truth for 3000 people wrongfully murdered. How unpatriotic to go agains what Fox news told you was going on.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by justamomma
 


An exact match to the crash scene in PA, proving plane crashes look like that? No, there is a complete tail section and pieces of plane. Sorry, not an exact match to F93 is it?

I've read and posted in this thread and nobody claimed at any point that the plane comparison posted was "AN EXACT MATCH". As a matter of fact, the OP specifically stated that it was the closest match he could find.

I seriously doubt the government would actually hire dozens of people to hang on on every conspiracy chat sight to try and convince us we're wrong. What a waste of time and money that would be

Keep in mind there are millions and millions of these sights all over the web which would require millions and millions of disinfo agents and that would be a significant portion of the US population. Which leads me to my next question....Are you a disinfo agent? The reason I ask is because you fall into your own description of what you think a disinfo agent is.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


First of all, did you read that thread? The closest he could find means nothing and the point of the thread was what? "Look, here is a crash scene that is just a hole with no plane parts but we know it was a plane crash...is it flght 93? No...it is this other plane." That was pretty much the summary of the OP. Later on, when someone else posted the pictures of the very large plane parts that TY neglected to include in his opening piece, he then said "oh well I never said it was exact." Right...then what was the point of the first post in that thread again? What I saw were two plane crash scenes that actually were quite different. One we knew was a plane and had plane parts, big ones, and bodies. The other is up for debate and as of yet, no identified plane parts, no bodies. So, what was the point? You know as well as I do what his point there was supposed to be. The title line says it all.

Secondly, I never ever once claimed that he was hired by the government. I never claimed he was on anyone's payroll. I merely claimed what I feel his agenda is. It may just be a personal agenda. Who knows. You believers do a great job of assuming things based on nothing don't you. Juts like NIST, it is so easy to just fill in the empty spots with whatever you like.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 03:24 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


I guess you are going to have to explain just how I fit that definition. TY claims I have offered no information of any kind so can you please explain how I could fit my definition of a disinfo agent?

ThroatYogurt,

Care yet to explain what 'facts' brought you from a truther to a believer or whatever label you care to use? That is the crux upon which my accusation hangs so feel free to knock it down.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by jfj123
 


First of all, did you read that thread?

Had you read my post, you would have known that I did.
So just to make sure, yes I did rear the thread.


The closest he could find means nothing and the point of the thread was what? "

1. obviously you are now stating what you said before was a misquote of the ACTUAL thread subject so you should retract your statement.
2. The OP found the closest comparable crash he could and post it. Nobody could find a closer comparison so we discussed it. I don't see the problem.


Look, here is a crash scene that is just a hole with no plane parts but we know it was a plane crash...is it flght 93? No...it is this other plane." That was pretty much the summary of the OP.

No it wasn't. He had an entire list of comparisons.


Later on, when someone else posted the pictures of the very large plane parts that TY neglected to include in his opening piece, he then said "oh well I never said it was exact."

Wrong again. Nothing like twisting what was said to try and make a rail thin point.


Secondly, I never ever once claimed that he was hired by the government. I never claimed he was on anyone's payroll. I merely claimed what I feel his agenda is. It may just be a personal agenda. Who knows. You believers do a great job of assuming things based on nothing don't you. Juts like NIST, it is so easy to just fill in the empty spots with whatever you like.

You claimed he was spreading disinfo on purpose. What would be his motivation to back a government he knew was wrong unless of course he worked for it. You IMPLIED that he was a disinfo agent working for the government and you know it.
People like you are turning SKEPTICS into witches and attempting to hold WITCH TRIALS against them on ATS.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741


ThroatYogurt,

Care yet to explain what 'facts' brought you from a truther to a believer or whatever label you care to use? That is the crux upon which my accusation hangs so feel free to knock it down.


Start a thread Internet Cowboy. I will gladly speak to you on topic there.

[edit on 18-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by MorningStar8741

First of all, did you read that thread?


The question is... DID YOU?


"Look, here is a crash scene that is just a hole with no plane parts but we know it was a plane crash...is it flght 93? No...it is this other plane." That was pretty much the summary of the OP.


This is not accurate. I can't call you a liar sir, but I suggest you re-read the OP.


Later on, when someone else posted the pictures of the very large plane parts that TY neglected to include in his opening piece, he then said "oh well I never said it was exact."


I neglected? Another lie for you. I have yet to see them. I went through the 20 pages or so of that thread and was unable to find the large pieces. (to be honest I could have missed them) I am at work and skimming quickly.


What I saw were two plane crash scenes that actually were quite different.


What you see is quite obvious. Whatever you want to see. Like in the Willie thread where you forgot how to count, called somthing crap without reading it, and again not accurate in your reading comprehensions.



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by ThroatYogurt
 


You did not see the large section of a side panel and the entire tail of that plane? Wow, perhaps you do need to look at things twice. And no, you cannot call me a liar because that is the gist of it. I will not argue about it anymore here. You could not keep up the debate on that thread and you folded so now you feel you have fresh meat with me. i am still waiting for Willie's lies and the actual point of this thread as well, but I guess you have as much desire to stay on topic as you ask of me.

[edit on 9/18/08 by MorningStar8741]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by ThroatYogurt

Originally posted by MorningStar8741


ThroatYogurt,

Care yet to explain what 'facts' brought you from a truther to a believer or whatever label you care to use? That is the crux upon which my accusation hangs so feel free to knock it down.


Start a thread Internew Cowboy. I will gladly speak to you on topic there.


Start a thread all about you? Now who has a high opinion of you? I am sorry but I doubt that ATS or the people that come here would really appreciate an entire thread in your honor. If you do not care to try to straighten out this little lie, then let's just get back to Jesse and what he did so wrong here. Where is the outragous behavior or the idiotic antics that you claimed to post for us all to see? I guess I need them pointed out to me.

[edit on 9/18/08 by MorningStar8741]



posted on Sep, 18 2008 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


Ok fine. Apparently what I was doing was reading the words posted in that thread. That is where I got these ideas. If you feel so strongly that I am so wrong about it then how about you tell me what the point of showing a crash scene with bodies and large plane parts is then. What was the point of the comparisson? If I am sooo wrong on the intended reason for that post, please tell me what it was then.



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