It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
For instance: why the hell would Jesus have exiled the "demon" (and I'm glad I could clear your issues on demons up too) Legion into a herd of swine? How? WTF was a herd of swine doing in Judaic (and therefore, non-pig-eating) areas? God's decreed these animals unclean, so we'll just keep a 2000-strong herd of them around to ensure we remember how unclean they really are? And we never eat bacon sandwiches - alright!
The title of this story drew my attention. It's not the 1st time someone claimes to have found Jesus coffin.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
the Romans had to sacrifice to their false God zeus.
Originally posted by ChChKiwi
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
the Romans had to sacrifice to their false God zeus.
No more or less false than any other god. Cultural (mis)appropriation is rife where the gods of others are concerned.
God is a flasher
He reveals himself to some
and not to others.
(Thanks to Grant Ewart for the Haiku)
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
No one is claiming to have found Jesus's coffin or tomb. This thread is about the discovery of a tomb for first century Christians.
What I mean is that the story the OP reffered too is prob. a mixed story. The article mentioned dates from 1998, it's a Jerusalem Christian Review and most of the pix shown in this article belong to the story of The Lost Tomb from 27 years ago.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Perhaps you weren't aware that most public/poor tombs during the first century looked like this. When the Arabs took control of the city, they began to put their bodies above ground in burial boxes. The reason is they are under the impression that a "prophet" (Jesus) would never defile Himself by walking through a cemetary.
Originally posted by Simplynoone
The Pope and Mary would be at the bottom of the totem pole if catholics really believed that Jesus was real ...There is so much idolatry in the Catholic Church and Christ preached more about idol worship than just about anything else ....
Originally posted by TruthParadox
There is no proof that Jesus existed and I highly doubt there ever will be.
Originally posted by AshleyD
Originally posted by TruthParadox
There is no proof that Jesus existed and I highly doubt there ever will be.
There is EVIDENCE.
Define what you would consider PROOF.
Originally posted by AshleyD
Eye witness accounts? Some believe some NT books are eye witness accounts. The God hating skeptics either state they were not eye witnesses but IF they were, then eye witness testimony is not considered reliable.
Originally posted by AshleyD
First century Christians who died for their beliefs: The sincerity of belief does not make that belief true! I agree with that but surely 1st century Christians would be an advantage over us regarding Jesus' historicity 2,000 years later. And there was physical evidence of Jesus documented to still have been in existence during their time that has not survived to our own time.
Originally posted by AshleyD
What about the deaths of the apostles. Who would die for something they knew was a lie? Then we have to prove ALL the accounts of the deaths of the apostles really occurred and were not unreliable eye witness accounts of their deaths. We can only do this for about half of the apostles but the God hating skeptic would still say this is not enough.
Originally posted by AshleyD
Historical sources? There are. But they are all dismissed as hearsay... while the accounts that are not necessary hearsay accounts but which are believed by many to be eye witness accounts are dismissed as 'unreliable.' And forget the fact many of these historical sources were written by Roman pagan historians- it's still not enough for the hardcore deny-at-all-costs skeptic.
Originally posted by AshleyD
So, I see no reason to try to sway the brainwashed. The evidence for His existence is plentiful but never enough for those who refuse, yes refuse, to believe. There is historical, documentary, and archaeological evidence confirming Jesus' existence but the hardcore skeptic who has seared their conscience will never, ever accept it.
Originally posted by TruthParadox
There's the problem.
Proof is not defined by me or by you.
Proof is proof.
If there was proof of Jesus' existence, then there would be no argument taking place.
It is not written as an account but as a story. An eyewitness account would be what the person saw from his vantage point. The gospels are written as knowing things that would not be known, such as knowing what Jesus said to God on the Mount of Olives, despite the fact that it says that he was alone while prayed.
Actually, they would NOT be at an advantage, as many of the people of this time were ignorant and believed what they did based on word of mouth. This should not be taken with any sort of validity just as early believers from any other religion.
Many people die for their beliefs. Just because muslims crashed planes in the world trade center does not validify their beliefs.
Originally posted by AshleyD
Originally posted by TruthParadox
There's the problem.
Proof is not defined by me or by you.
Proof is proof.
If there was proof of Jesus' existence, then there would be no argument taking place.
Sadly, not all the time. Let's use the shape of the earth as an example. There are still people today who believe the earth is flat. How can they possibly believe this? There is 'PROOF' the earth is spherical yet they deny it. So, 'PROOF' can still be denied.
Originally posted by AshleyD
Example. Of course I believe Alexander the Great existed but we are going to use this example again.
Me (Devil's Advocate Insane Skeptic): Alexander the Great's historical existence must be questioned because the accounts written about his life cannot be considered reliable since they were written after his lifetime. Therefore Hearsay.
Sane Ignorance Denier: Well, There is other Evidence. For instance, we have his face on coins.
Me (Devil's Advocate Insane Skeptic): LOL! You are so ignorant and delusional. That means nothing- Zeus had coins depicting him!
Sane Ignorance Denier: Er... But cities were founded in his name and he himself founded cities!
Me (Devil's Advocate Insane Skeptic): LOL! So did Romulus- a mythological figure said to have founded Rome!
Sane Ignorance Denier: Er... But there are records of his birth cited in external sources that are lost to us but existed at the time of the written records.
Me (Devil's Advocate Insane Skeptic): They were later forgeries/interpolations!
Sane Ignorance Denier: But there are historical sites and other historical figures associated with him!
Me (Devil's Advocate Insane Skeptic): You idiot! LOL! Even really good fiction authors sometimes use real people, locations, and events when writing their novels.
Sane Ignorance Denier: But there are archaeological sites associated with him!
Get the point?
Originally posted by AshleyD
It is not written as an account but as a story. An eyewitness account would be what the person saw from his vantage point. The gospels are written as knowing things that would not be known, such as knowing what Jesus said to God on the Mount of Olives, despite the fact that it says that he was alone while prayed.
And Jesus couldn't have told them? Silliness.
Originally posted by AshleyD
Actually, they would NOT be at an advantage, as many of the people of this time were ignorant and believed what they did based on word of mouth. This should not be taken with any sort of validity just as early believers from any other religion.
They most certainly were and I am surprised (but not really) to see you say such a thing especially after me sending you a link previously. Jesus' relatives were still alive, there are the census records that recorded Jesus' birth that are now lost to us, there would have been surviving eye witnesses and artifacts that existed then but were lost to us now, Jesus' great nephews were taken before the courts, etc. Logic demands they would have known more about it than we do today.
Originally posted by AshleyD
Many people die for their beliefs. Just because muslims crashed planes in the world trade center does not validify their beliefs.
Did you read what I said when I said 'I agree with that' after stating such an objection? Again, it goes back to the fact those people would have had a reason to KNOW Jesus was a historical figure- not just dying for something means that thing was true.