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Jerusalem Burial Cave Reveals:Names, Testimonies of First Christians

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posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 02:16 AM
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reply to post by Sweet Paula
 


Did you mean Idol worshippers as those who worship the cross with a crucified jesus? Maybe you should rethink your tirade because you fall into that Idol worshiper category since you worship in a house with the crucified jesus Idol placed above and behind your altar.




posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Deaf Alien

Originally posted by reject
It takes faith to believe what he taught as those who used this tomb did.


See? We cannot debate with this.


that's case closed for me. when the OP admits that in the end it just takes faith...the whole argument of physical conclusive evidence crumbles unconvincingly.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 02:47 AM
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They showed us the "owner" inscriptions on two coffins; however, they didn't show us the "owner" inscription of the coffin which supposedly had a dedication to Jesus on it? Why did they not show us it's owner inscription? It'd be the most important thing to prove. The dedication itself only proves that a man named Jeshua (which was a very common name) once existed.

The underlying sentiment in this thread is that this proves Jesus - the Messiah, King of Kings actually existed. It doesn't prove that. Scholars mostly agree that a man named Jeshua existed about 2000 years ago and acted as a political and social reformer and catalyst who most likely unknowingly began a religion. The Gospels weren't even written until 70AD (and that gospel - the Gospel of Thomas, wasn't even included in the Bible)

I'll post proof of that later if you want.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by Deaf Alien

Originally posted by reject

Originally posted by banyan

No, deaf alien, I only proved that Jesus Christ of Nazareth walked the earth during the 1st century.


No, you didn't. It raised the possibility of Jesus existed. But it is not 100% conclusive. However, this is much better than second-hand accounts.



It takes faith to believe what he taught as those who used this tomb did.


See? We cannot debate with this.
What exactly would 100% convince you that Jesus Christ walked the earth during the 1st century? The second coming?


Anyway, the thread's aim was not to prove Jesus' divinity but you took an aside and said the find doesn't prove it. So, I had to answer. No, I couldn't make you believe in it and Jesus Christ himself couldn't make everyone believe him that's why not only did they crucify him but also defamed him in the Talmud.

A story about a man named Yeshu can be found in the Talmud. There is debate whether this Yeshu in the Talmud is the same Jesus who later became a Christian divinity.

According to the Talmud, Yeshu was the son of a Jewish woman named Miriam who was betrothed to a carpenter. "Betrothed" means she was legally married to him, but she was not yet living with him or having sexual relations with him. The story says that Miriam was either raped by or voluntarily slept with Pandeira, a Greek or Roman soldier. Miriam than gave birth to Yeshu, who was considered a "mamzer" (bastard), a product of an adulterous relationship. The Talmud describes Yeshu as a heretic who dabbled in sorcery and lead the people astray. Later, the Sanhedrin (the Jewish "Supreme Court") ordered Yeshu stoned to death and his dead body was hung from a tree until nightfall after his death, in accordance with the ancient Jewish punishment for heretics


But the evidence stands...



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 03:06 AM
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There's three things I would like to point out.

1. The website is one owned only to promote Christianity, so you can expect at least minimal bias.

2. The news article is copyrighted in 1998, meaning that this "discovery" is 10+ years old. Why is it only being presented now?


Jean Gilman is a staff reporter for the Jerusalem Christian Review.

Copyright © 1998 Jerusalem Christian Review. All rights reserved.
This article was reprinted with permission from the Jerusalem Christian Review, Volume 9, Internet Edition, Issue 2.


3. "Jesus" is not Jesus's name. "Jesus" was originally "Zezues," when the Bible was written in Greek. Zeus is the Greek word for god, hence ZeZues = The god, just as Christ being Greek for "Christos" (meaning annointed).

Since the earliest Bibles were written in Greek, almost 80 years after Jesus's death, the likelihood that Jesus and his followers referred to himself as "Jesus" is very slim, unless he had a habit of speaking Greek, rather than his native tongues of Hebrew and Aramaic.

[edit on 13-9-2008 by DJMessiah]



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah

"Jesus" is not Jesus's name. "Jesus" was originally "Zezues," when the Bible was written in Greek. Zeus is the Greek word for god, hence ZeZues = The god, just as Christ being Greek for "Christos" (meaning annointed).

Since the earliest Bibles were written in Greek, almost 80 years after Jesus's death, the likelihood that Jesus and his followers referred to himself as "Jesus" is very slim, unless he had a habit of speaking Greek, rather than his native tongues of Hebrew and Aramaic.

[edit on 13-9-2008 by DJMessiah]



DJ Messiah what is ur source for this info, i just did a yahoo search of "Zesues" and all i got was a post you made using that word in another thread


and i think its commonly agreed Jesus is derved from the aramaic word Yeshua, or the hebrw Yehoshua. and you can do ur own research on that.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by Boywonder13
and i think its commonly agreed Jesus is derved from the aramaic word Yeshua, or the hebrw Yehoshua. and you can do ur own research on that.


That would be incorrect. The word "Yeshua" is "Joshua" in English. There is no J in either the Hebrew and Aramaic alphabet. When these names are translated into English, the "Y is replaced with a "J." For example, Yonus = Jonus (Jonas). Yebusalam = Jereusalam.

Current day Greek Christians still refer to Jesus as "Zezeus." Greek Bibles still have his name as Zezeus, as well.



[edit on 13-9-2008 by DJMessiah]



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah

Originally posted by Boywonder13
and i think its commonly agreed Jesus is derved from the aramaic word Yeshua, or the hebrw Yehoshua. and you can do ur own research on that.


That would be incorrect. The word "Yeshua" is "Joshua" in English. There is no J in either the Hebrew and Aramaic alphabet. When these names are translated into English, the "Y is replaced with a "J." For example, Yonus = Jonus (Jonas). Yebusalam = Jereusalam.

Current day Greek Christians still refer to Jesus as "Zezeus." Greek Bibles still have his name as Zezeus, as well.


[edit on 13-9-2008 by DJMessiah]


Yah im not incorrect, names change over time, a name like Yeshua eventually morphed into what in English is Jesus. Names can have the same original derivation but end up being dif.

Zezeus? i would like a source please. i've never heard of this info before. Just post a source...



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by Boywonder13
 


It's JeZeus. There are some results in google.

Some information at this website:
www.revelations.org.za...




That the name of a pagan idol was used with which to supplant the original Hebrew Name of Messiah in the New Testament. This was done through a gradual process of identifying the attributes of the pagan sungod Zeus, with that of the Hebrew Messiah, by early converts from Roman paganism to Christianity. Through the efforts and influence of Roman Emperor Constantine, himself a Zeus worshipper, the Greek Name 'JEZEUS' (translated "Jesus" in English and pronounced 'Jezus'), was ultimately used in place of His True Name, YAHSHUAH.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah
3. "Jesus" is not Jesus's name. "Jesus" was originally "Zezues," when the Bible was written in Greek. Zeus is the Greek word for god, hence ZeZues = The god, just as Christ being Greek for "Christos" (meaning annointed).
[edit on 13-9-2008 by DJMessiah]


No it wasn't.

There is NO EVIDENCE for this nonsense.
No scholar agrees.
We still have early Greek MSS.
They do NOT say "Zezues"

The say Iesous
NOTHING to do with Zeus at all.


Iasion



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah
Greek Bibles still have his name as Zezeus, as well.


No they don't.
This is completely false.
I HAVE a Greek bible right here now.
It has Iesous
(transliterating into English, not sure how to do Greek on this forum)

NOT Zezeus.

Clearly, DJMessiah has never checked.


Iasion



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by Boywonder13
 


It's JeZeus. There are some results in google.

Some information at this website:
www.revelations.org.za...




That the name of a pagan idol was used with which to supplant the original Hebrew Name of Messiah in the New Testament. This was done through a gradual process of identifying the attributes of the pagan sungod Zeus, with that of the Hebrew Messiah, by early converts from Roman paganism to Christianity. Through the efforts and influence of Roman Emperor Constantine, himself a Zeus worshipper, the Greek Name 'JEZEUS' (translated "Jesus" in English and pronounced 'Jezus'), was ultimately used in place of His True Name, YAHSHUAH.


Thanks....

it seems though like equating Jesus to Zeus cuz the last two letters is similar is like trying to pull of a "Zeitgeist" such as saying Joseph and Seb. are similar. or that there is a parallel between the words Son of God, and Sun of God. When they only share a similarity in modern day english.
and the Constantine conspiracy haha, is pretty old too. Theres no source for the informatin either, and it just seems like a wacakdoo, christian site. They dont even support the trinity...

its interesting to see this is a christian site, and not a skeptic one. regardless, Yeshua is indentified as Jesus in modern times. We see them as the same person. so theres no problem really.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 04:51 AM
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Two things I'd like to point out. First, there is a HUGE business in Israel forging relics and antiquities and there have been all sorts of claims of finding tombs loaded with the entire cast and crew of the new testament. Look up "the James Ossuary" and the documentary "the Lost Tomb of Jesus".

Second, this thread should be in the Faith & Spirituality forum as there's no conspiracy being discussed here.

[edit on 9/13/2008 by mythatsabigprobe]



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 06:20 AM
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at first i thought the article was pointing out that a burial cave for followers of the early Christian cult was discovered...

but upon reading the full article from Leadership University (reprinted from the Jerusalem Christian Review - Magazine, in 1998)
www.leaderu.com...



it was revealed the cave held more than 100 first-century coffins,,,
bone boxes... that contained the remains of both pagans & cultists and some seeming Hebrews/Jews


all in all, the remains were from all walks of life, like any modern graveyard... and some of the inscriptions could be loosely identified as having some symbols or gospel mentioned first names, as identification on the some of the bone boxes or coffins.



one marked box said 'Diogenes'...are we to deduce that the Greek mythic figure who searched for 'truth & honesty' was buried there ?


i'm leaning to the cave's [questionable] Christian history being emphasized so as to attract the tourist dollar



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 06:22 AM
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WOW ! Just found this thread and what a fantastic discovery. I've never doubted Jesus existed. The Romans wrote about him and there is alot of evidence for showing he was here. I've know doubt from what the Bible says (and watchign Robert Powell as Jesus of Nazareth for the umpteenth time!!:lol
that Jesus was a great man, a very holy man indeed. And that is to be respected. but i am still not sure about Jesus being the Son of God and the resseurection bit. Dont get me wrong i do beleive in God/Supreme Being/Creator I just feel that many of the world's religions ie Islam, Buddhism. Jewdaism etc all amount to the same thing, just different interptretations of what we all beleive in. Thats why i have great respect for islam as much as Christainity. No one relgion is the "right" relgion. There is alot about Islam that i like and alot that i dont and the same applies to Christianity as well. My belief is more spirtual in nature.
Then again if Christ turned up on my doorstep asking for a cup of coffee and for a chat, i'lll eat my hat and i would'nt turn him down either. in fact i'd welcome it.
I guess what saddens me most is that we ie the human race squabble over reglion that has led to many wars, directly or indirectly. This goes against what many of the world relgions preach anyway. Violence solves nothing. Tolereance for fellow man is a much more civilised and peaceful way to overcomming issues.
At the end of the day it does not matter what tombs are found or what other archelogical discoveries are made. What matters is how we treat others, to follow our hearts and try and give rather than take. To be true to yourself and to respect the world. We are only here for a short time. Some of us dont live to be 60. Why waste it over petty squabbling. Life Is For Living, enjoy the world, enjoy your life and just enjoy being alive!!!. Worry about life after death until you die!! I used to fear death. Now i dont. Sure the physical pain of dying terrifes me, but death itself does not. What will be will be.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 09:07 AM
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Just like to start off by saying that I don't mean any disrespect to Christians, since I used to be one myself.

Christians need to accept that Jesus was just a man - A prophet, but just a man, not the son of God, or even God himself, a "trinity" or anything else. Jesus was the prophet of God, and God is who you should be worshiping, not idols of Jesus in the churches (Idol-worship being a major sin in all religions).

And yes, Jesus was real. It's just that Christianity is so messed up with all the contradictions in the Bible (Which were done by men in the past - Ample proof), the mixing of paganism with Christianity by the Romans (Hence why it seems a lot of passages refer to the stars, when there is no link whatsoever by the stars on the fate of Earth or us), the concept of God being 3 via the trinity (If that was true, 1 + 1 + 1 would equal to 1, but it does not), and all the other misconceptions and lies being spouted by this altered Bible. The Bible may have been "right" at one time (Immediately after Jesus), but now hasn't been for over 1,700 years.

Don't like a passage, change it, just like modern Christians and the damn pope are doing, look at the whole concept of "Homosexuality" in recent news (Not to mention the Jews did just that too prior to Christianity). No wonder I found Islam.

The contradictions made me sick of Christianity, and I had to look elsewhere for the true words of God, and I am happy to say that I found them, and couldn't be happier.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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I thought I'd seen this before.

It doesn't prove anything about Jesus' origins or divinity, just some more evidence to say that a good bloke with some good ideas on how to live existed. Just like The Buddha, and Bill and Ted.

This is one of the topics where no side will convert the other, faith is as powerful a force as logic. Some good info in the subsequent posts though. A good thread.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by WickedStar
 


This is true, all the names mentioned on the coffins where common names. The only true evidence is the cross, which is unusual.

But of course after reading this thread through I don't see any intelligent conversations occurring, the Jesus Patrol would rather silence any discussion that questions whether the man named Joshua was indeed some Holly manifestation of God incarnate.

Of which no evidence anywhere, especially the cave, indicates any form of divine intervention from this man.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by IasionNo they don't.
This is completely false.
I HAVE a Greek bible right here now.
It has Iesous
(transliterating into English, not sure how to do Greek on this forum)


If by Iesous, you mean iesouß, then your Bible is using a Hebrew name, and not the Greek.

Origin of iesouß here.



posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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As I was aware, Jesus' "real" name was Yeshua. This get's transliterated to Greek by becoming Jesus because the J and Y sounds are interchangeable, and in Greek to end a name with an "a" makes it feminine, so an "s" was substituted, as convention dictates.



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