German Chemist-LHC CERN-Disaster In Four Years

what would happen if you collide accelerated protons together? this is the only real question one should ask him/herself. Wasnt the CERN the only place in the world that created an anti-proton resulting of accelerated and bombarded proton?

Then wouldnt it be correct to assume that the accelerated proton could eventually create an anti substance reaction? And what if both anti-substance reactions collided? wouldnt that make some kind of inverted space and time phenomenon?

Well if this is the case then its only fair that these kind of experiments that may affect the fabric of dimensions should be conducted as far away as possible. not even close to our solar system.

(I am no real expert so please feel free to contradict me if this is any way an unlogical assumption)

I don’t completely understand the science behind this, but when some of the best minds in the world are saying be careful, we should proceed with caution.

It is like when Einstein told the US Navy not to proceed with the Philadelphia experiment during WWII. It was funny how Einstein was assigned to the Navy Ordnance Department allegedly working on Torpedoes that explode under ships. Einstein was at the same site of the Philadelphia experiment and at the same time. I guess Einstein knew something no one else did or wanted to know.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen

I for one am highly anticipating the ability to create and control man-made Black Holes, as this would for once provide an extremely realistic possibility towards Time Travel.

Time Travel is not possible in a black hole, worm holes are what could make Time Travel a possibility. You would just get crushed in a black hole.

Unless he has expertise in quantum physics I don't see why anyone would consider him a expert on the subject.

You wouldn't trust a geologists opinion on black holes.

According to the article he has a theory contradicting Einstein's theory of General Relativity that has been proven to be wrong, which is the basis of his arguments

He said that Prof Rossler was a ‘crazy’ retired professor who had invented his own theory of relativity.

‘We have shown him where his elementary errors are, but of course people like that just will not listen,’ said Dr Evans.

Meanwhile, Dr Wagner’s fears were ‘totally and completely’ unfounded. ‘There are thousands of scientists around the world who have been preparing this machine and they know what they are talking about, unlike these guys,’ he added.

The best argument against these crazy ideas is the fact that cosmic rays and other high energy particles are colliding with the moon, planets, atmosphere etc. with alot more energy than the collisions at CERN produce, even as we speak. We don't see a black hole devouring the moon do we ?

The best minds from all over the world are working on the project, and there are no concerns raised by anyone working at CERN with the appropriate expertise to know. Either believe them, or place all your faith in a retired chemist from Hawaii.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Hello there,
You ppl just don't get it - do you know what the black holes are?
They are a supermassive stars, so massive that the light can't escape from them (that's why they are black)...
How you think the LHC produce such massive object? - The anser is Not possible

What are forest fires made of. Fires so massive that it takes weeks to put them out using thousands of people. It all starts with a spark, or a match. The result is the same.

Look guys, I am just an annonymous guy who would like to tell you this:

First of all, I'm sure nothing will happen on september 10th as they are not going to experiment the LHC at its maximum capacity, even they declaired it is a "Let's see what happens" test. However, I'm not sure what will happen in the future, and despite the fact that there are people on both sides of the subject, that is, some believe it is dangerous, some believe it is not, we all have to admit that all the theoryes that have been proposed to "control" the possible reactions resulting from this experiment(e.g.: black holes, hawkingsradiation) although, perhaps, well documented and researched upon, still remain theoryes, which haven't been actually observed untill now. What is more, besides the balckholes and yata yata, who knows what this experiment might generate? Since even scientists themselves who have been working on this project admit that they are not entirely SURE of what could happen. When I read "Let's see what happens", this phrase gave me the chills ... My final point would be that this is indeed a hudge step in understanding and finding answers to the universe we live in, still, take this into consideration, as life appeared suddenly and almost inexplicably (life=universe, planets, humans), suddenly and inexplicably could also dissappear...

I cannot wait for 2013 so I can forget about all this 2012 nonsense

reply to post by Karlhungis


Indeed the opening weeks of the LHC/ALICE/ATLAS and other projects are reminiscent exactly of the manhattan project.

My wife's aunt Virginia was an army secretary there, to i think a gen. groves?, and she thought it the most exciting thing that had happened in her life.

Dunno, these things ARE scary- stranglets, quasars, bosons,gravitons, etc - but it will more than likely usher in a new age of power sources, theories, and a time distortion device....one can hope.


"The Atomic Age began at exactly 5:30 Mountain War Time on the morning of July 15, 1945, on a stretch of semi-desert land about 5 airline miles from Alamogordo, New Mexico.

"And just at that instance there rose from the bowels of the earth a light not of this world, the light of many suns in one."

William Laurence
New York Times
September 26, 1945

The chemist and everyone else who think this experiment will make the planet implode,explode or get swallowed by something from another dimension needs to read a book about physics.As someone stated,we are being bombarded by particles worse than those of the LHC every second and nothing has happened and nothing will happen except for what the scientists expect to see,and i hope they won`t find what they are looking for either "the god particle".I think the humankind needs mysteries to keep moving forward.There is a 11min video which explains most things about the project,even the blackholes.


www.youtube.com...

Every single bit of comment, or video i've seen that features a scientist dismissing the dangers of mini black holes- It's either countered with their size and that they will evaporate (because of a theory), or they rather wont talk about it at all and call those who oppose the LHC crazy.

I know, they're scientists and smart people... But still people. They have a job and humans are often stubborn when it comes to degrading and talking about the dangers of their own work.

Is there any other safeguard next to the Hawking Radiation theory? What about the circumstances inside the LHC? This aint space! This is a controlled enviroment! What are the speeds of the black holes that DO get created? Will they move away rapidly? Or hang around? Will they collide with other particles? This is a mixture of many different sorts of them and the black hole's get created right in the middle of them!

I'm all for human progress, but any unbiased independent safety check would be worth while, thank you.

reply to post by Mammoth


Do we have a couple of billions blackholes around us? the particles from the sun should have made some.

Everyone needs to just keep their eyes on this: qntm.org... to make sure they're prepared should the worst happen. Let's see... currently Earth is... checking.... NOT DESTROYED! *whew* That green light is reassuring!

In other words, how many things have been predicted to destroy Earth just in our lifetimes and how many times has Earth actually been destroyed? The odds are strongly in our planet's favor at this point so this is nothing other than fear mongering to see your name in the news.

Originally posted by logician magician
Wow.

First it's the LHC is going to destroy the world when it's turned on, then it will destroy the world four years later.

After that, it will destroy the world in 2016, and then again in 2020!

This thing is on a non-stop world destroying spree!

It just goes to show how gullible (and pretentious) people can be.

Actually, no one has changed the date. It's always been 12/21/12. Just some people make a big deal about things and make up closer dates.

I dont mean to sound ignorant, but since this sort of thing happens in our atmosphere daily why can't they research it there? Probably because they need controlled conditions. But if they need controlled conditions doesn't it mean that it is no longer the same process as what happens daily, but something else which could in turn have different/unpredicted results?

I'm going to make a prediction, er make that TWO: The first prediction is............No black hole will be created, the second is.......black hole theory.... will be discarded...............

Folks, we live in an electrical universe, this is the paradigm shift of 12/21/2012, that electrical energy is all around us in space and is Free (like Linux is free) to use.

Not only that but it will explain static electricity and gravity and magnetic forces

(before you flame me, I'm a huge fan of Stephen Hawkin, and have read a great many of his published papers and books)

Originally posted by drphilxr
"And just at that instance there rose from the bowels of the earth a light not of this world, the light of many suns in one."

William Laurence
New York Times
September 26, 1945

And just like CERN, some people thought the atomic bomb would destroy the earth. It didn't. And just like CERN, some people thought that other particle colliders would destroy the earth. They didn't. The most well-known "doomsday lawsuit" that was recently filed against CERN scientists was filed by the same exact guy who said that OTHER particle colliders would destroy the earth. They never did. See my recent post for more info on the "doomsday lawsuit"..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I mean honestly..
Group protests treatment of Hadrons at CERN ???! WOW!

-ChriS

[edit on 9-9-2008 by BlasteR]

reply to post by thedigirati


Thank you, I was waiting for a comment like that. Black Holes are completely theoretical and have never been observed, only the effects which can also be described by a multitude of alternative theories none of which may be correct.
Of all the skepticism in various topics here at ATS why is it few question these theoretical areas of science? and many who are only vaguely familiar with the subjects rush to defend them.
I fear whatever discoveries are made will be tainted by preconceived concepts to force the results into an existing and false paradigm. Much like what has happened in Big bang theory.

It is proven that protons are nothing more than energy waves creating the so called "ball" of a proton

black holes are formed when the gravity of matter is so immense that the forces that keep the protons in shape is broken and the proton implodes on itself creating an extremely dense piece of matter with a the same gravitational pull as before but because the proton has collapsed, nearby atoms can come closer to this dense matter. the resulting gravity can cause the nearby atoms to collapse in on the existing dense matter (gravitational pull is relative to mass and distance ---> bigger mass = bigger gravity & smaller distance between objects = bigger gravity), making the matter slightly larger and giving it a higher gravitational pull with each atom collapsing in on it. This will exponentially grow as matter is available. Black holes in space are massive cus they had lots of time to consume extra particles, they also grow slower because of the distances between particles in outer space.

With the immense speeds created in the LHC they might possibly collapse the enrgy fields that constructs protons, therby creating a small black hole.

If this happens then im afraid the whole solar system might be in grave jeopardy within a few seconds. (The earth compressed as a black hole will take up less space than a golf ball)

Lets hope that
1. There is not enough energy to collapse the proton in such a way
2. The proton explosion is big enough for it not fal back in on itself
3. A collapsed proton doesn't generate enough gravity to collapse nearby protons onto it

Only time will tell

PS: I'm not a scientist or a physicist but this ive reasoned from my existing knowledge. Lets hope im wrong

Originally posted by Jasestrong2
I don’t completely understand the science behind this, but when some of the best minds in the world are saying be careful, we should proceed with caution.

Actually, some of the best minds in the world are telling us that the chances of something happening are miniscule, and are telling us not to buy into the hysteria.

Since day one I haven't bought into the fear mongering. Far, far, far to many people have fallen into the trap of hysteria from reading fear mongering ignorant threads.

ATS has had too many of these threads recently. I almost left this site because of the LHC hysteria and the election propaganda.

[edit on 12-9-2008 by ben420]

I'm sure glad this chemist shared his expert opinion on particle physics with us.

I'm an engineer, can I play too?