Originally posted by SectionEight
So now there is NO native hawaiians left but they want freedom for natives?
Like I said earlier, just a social free govt check program. What you think that check will be spent on is different from what the evidence shows. Never once did a gvt. welfare check get somebody out of poverty, it just kept them there.

sir, have you read the bill? The main reason for this is to continue the apologies that the US govt owes. The main reward from this bill is more Hawaiian govt, and less land restrictions by the US govt.

Not some welfare check as you say.

Considering European nations were pressured most of this century to release control over all their colonies, most of which were less distant from the nations in question then Hawaii is from any other part of the USofA, then I wonder why it would be any kind of problem for Hawaii to go solo.



[edit on 6/9/08 by thematrix]

This thread has some important issues to discuss, namely the wrongs done to the native Hawaiian people by the colonial powers in the past.

This issue is contentious, keep it civil.

Section eight, you made a comment to the effect that never did a welfare check from the government help anyone out of poverty, it just kept them there. I would beg to differ....our government gives massive "welfare" checks to the oil industry, to the agricultural industry, and to the pharma industry, and they make massive profits off of it. Now, apparently, the government is giving massive "welfare" checks to failed bankers who are so bad at their jobs that they are destroying the american economy....and those bankers will then go on to use those checks to buy million dollar mansions and cars and yachts, and further their fortunes as well. And soon our government will be giving out "welfare" checks to the collapsing airlines and automakers industries, and these people will use those checks to live the life that you and i could only dream of. Further the amounts our governments give to these big business has now outstripped the amount of money actually going to the poor. Regardless, even if we WERE giving hawaii back to the hawaiians, this would not be our government handing out free checks to poor people, it would be GIVING BACK THAT WHICH ALREADY BELONGED TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. I think the hawaiians were doin just fine before we invaded, in fact, from what i have read, their existence back then was much closer to paradise than most other peoples on this earth, so how do we give them THAT back? We have stolen from them their national innocence, much as a child raped is forever damaged and loses something special, just as we did to the native americans, and in truth, no reparation, no amount of money can ever repay what we took from them, so the least we could do for them is everything.

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So you are either saying its politics as usual with mccain cause he vote for it for other reasons knowing it would be rejected. And obama vote for it because he actually believed it...


OR

they both vote for it.

Either way, it makes obama look fine and Mccain either equal to Obama or politcs as usual no change.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
Glad to see that the overt racism was removed from the posts.

Hawaii is unique. If you ever get the chance to go to the state capital, it is pretty neat. They have a palace sitting right next to the capital building that is out of the jurisdiction of the police. They still hold very dear their monarchy that the Europeans overturned when they decided to conquer those lands under threat of violence and with disease. Until people can get past the fact that it is somehow OK to conquer someone else's land, we are never going to mature as a people.

Don't just blame the "Europeans" for this, America and Americans hand a big hand in the overthrow of the monarchy too. The vast majority of the meddling in Hawaii since the the 19th century has been from the USA, not Europe.

So Republicans were upset when Obama wanted the US to have 53 States... and now they are upset he wants 49??

I support this move...

Next is giving the States back to the Native American Indians and Mexicans of course...

Guys, its a moot point. Mccain voted for the SAME bill